crystalpalace
58 posts
Sep 10, 2007
2:52 PM
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Hey Guys I was looking through some old bulletins and found this.. Ray
Last Edited by on Sep 10, 2007 4:22 PM
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MILO
448 posts
Sep 10, 2007
5:14 PM
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Hey Ray.
That is some cool stuff...
I noticed Frank Martin was one of the region reps back then. Boy he had some good rollers. He still lives no more than 2 minutes from me. I saw him maybe a couple months back. He was always fun and enthusiastic. He got out of rollers due to the Cooper attacks. Breeders got old, and that was that.
c
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Mount Airy Lofts
268 posts
Sep 10, 2007
5:55 PM
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Ray,
Thanks for sharing. Great stuff! I love going thru our old Club bulletins as well. No where near the famous stuffs you have there but still alot of history worth giving a look at.
Thor
Last Edited by on Sep 10, 2007 6:00 PM
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crystalpalace
59 posts
Sep 10, 2007
7:06 PM
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California Birmingham Roller Club Dedicated To The Aerial Performance Of The Champion Birmingham Roller. This was some of the membership. Cris Saabye,Mike Saabye,Cris Saabye Jr.,Rick Marshall,Arnold George,Bobby Johnson,Gene Varao,Dalton Davis,Paul Perez Sr.,Tony Perez Sr.,Vic Fortage,Rex Clark,Jason Joslon,Louis Foy,Billy Mattews,Kenny Billings,Roger Belew,Jack Myers,Rich Nafsgar,Fred Meiner,Sr.,Harry Meadows,Floyd Getting,Sr.,Louis Foy,Sr.,Danny Davis,Dean Biedenweg,Doug Ried,Don Marshal,Chan Grover,Don Quellette,Tim Wiyse,Doug Studeman,Jay Ventrus,Rubin Solario,Art Solario,Gene Varao,David Rachael Sr.,David Racheal Jr.,Henry Alarcon,Little Henry,Jesus Masias,Jack Nowaya,Steve Walker,and Ray Sanchez. There were other members listed in some old records that are stored away in boxes. Secretary Treasure-Ray Sanchez
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DeepSpinLofts
153 posts
Sep 10, 2007
8:14 PM
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I noticed the 1995 World Cup Champion Don Ouellette was a regional representative in region 4 in the 1983 CBRC Officers list.
Don has a lot of good birds out there. I have a similar family "Joe Borges" and currently working my Deep-Spin line into Don's Superspin family in hopes of a major breakthrough in biogenetic engineering.
Hey Ray... you ever read a journal by J. Hered called: "A genetic investigation of roller and tumbler pigeons" which was written in 1972?
Just wondering that's all.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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kcfirl
196 posts
Sep 10, 2007
8:33 PM
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Ray,
thank you so much for sharing that! I had a few birds from Ken Higgins at one time that I purchased from Yancy. Do you know Ken Higgins or rememmber what family of birds he had?
Thanks,
Ken Firl
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nicksiders
2153 posts
Sep 10, 2007
9:08 PM
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There were a bunch of ALL-STARS listed there. Fantastic! I really enjoyed seeing that. Thanks, Ray.
Nick
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BigRiverRollerLofts
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crystalpalace
60 posts
Sep 11, 2007
10:35 AM
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Hi Nick it was good to hear you enjoyed reading about the CBRC news back in the 80's and the ALL-stars that competed. Good luck with your rollers,Nick. Your in the Sport,Ray
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crystalpalace
61 posts
Sep 11, 2007
10:51 AM
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Milo it was quite a few years ago that Ken Billings,Jack myers,and myself visited with Frank Martin in Monterey. Man did he ever have a great stud of Stan Polona rollers We saw the $700. dollar blue check cock that was very old at that time. I have his grandsons and granddaughters in my loft. I mated that family to my #514 Top and Bottom family that are blue-black checks. Should have some pictures to share with all roller fanciers later in the year. Keep up the good work with your rollers. Ray
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crystalpalace
62 posts
Sep 11, 2007
12:08 PM
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It was good to hear from you cocering the roller hobby. Ken Higgings purched rollers from Richard Jackonette. There were x-wings and h-style or better in that family with good frequecy. I saw Rusty and sisters at David Sanchez house before Richard bought those birds. A good breeder can get some fine birds out of that familt,Ken. A big problem with that family is the rool-down factor.Many roller breeders are breeding my stock to control that problem and breeding those birds back together and back to my family. Good luck in the breed.Ken, Yours in the fancy,Ray
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crystalpalace
64 posts
Sep 11, 2007
12:36 PM
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Macus you have some good rollers indeed and it was swell hearing about that news. The old Mc Cully and Polona families are devinely great rollers to breed from. You can select good birds to make another family. Joe Borges always possesed great rollers and flew great kits. He would never compete in flying competion but showed his rollers. He could have been one of the greatest master breeders and flyers in competion. After he retired he flew in some flys and did very well. I only wished he would have flown in competion with our local flying clics. Joe Kiser flew a few times in competion and had the same stock. Don Quellette has the Polona stock and had the McCully stock also. Ray
Last Edited by on Sep 11, 2007 1:47 PM
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Skylineloft
143 posts
Sep 11, 2007
1:09 PM
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Ray,
Thanks for sharing that material.
I enjoyed that.
Ray
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Mongrel Lofts
355 posts
Sep 11, 2007
1:14 PM
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Ken Firl,
I went over to Ken Higgins several times. Ken was also a falconer as you may well know,, He usually had a hawk staked and hooded in the yard.. Was odd seeing a kit of rollers with a hooded hawk standing on a short stand in front of them. LOL Anyway, Ken got his birds directly from Richard Jacconett.. He bought two full kits that I know of. The last I remember him telling me cost like $2000 bucks for a young bird kit.. Sam Williams used a black mottle hen on a Blue bar cock of mine to create a family of blacks he had.. Man could those crosses roll and they were HOT! I bet Sam still has some of the Ken Higgins/Jac blood hanging around in his stud.. I seen the birds fly at Ken's many times but they never were the quality of the kits Sam Williams flew. Sam used many birds to create his family. Mine x Ken Higgins, Tee runner cock, A red check cock Billy Mathews bred X a hen he call the Arnold hen. She was really a Plona background bird from Ray Sanchez. He also used some Dave Goss birds that he was very happy with.. How did I get off on all this,, LOL Anyway, that is my 2 cents on Ken Higgins. KGB
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kcfirl
197 posts
Sep 11, 2007
4:08 PM
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Ray and KGB,
thanks for that info on Ken Higgins. I ended up giving away the breeders that I had as they grew old. I never had a problem with roll downs but was instructed to cross them onto some black torts that Yancy also sold me. I never got anything that great out of them and have since moved on to the family I have now.
When you're starting out you never even know what you have.
thanks,
Ken firl
PS. All the Higgins birds were pearl eyed blue bar clones.
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MILO
449 posts
Sep 11, 2007
4:09 PM
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Hi Ray.
Ya, I remember that bird. That was the old #51 cock. I had a smoking little hen down from him years ago. He also had a black badge hen that was a great producer, his "Booty" hen. I wonder if I have met you before Ray. My good buddy Pepe Carrera told me a lot about you on our way up to the Visalia show. You probably remember him. He was one of my very first friends in the roller hobby, and has taught me a lot about flying and breeding rollers. Take care.
c
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Bird_Man_916
34 posts
Sep 11, 2007
4:33 PM
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Hey aren't those 4 black and white rollers grahams Fireballs??? J/W
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crystalpalace
66 posts
Sep 11, 2007
7:46 PM
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Ken the Yancy R.J. birds had lot of spin but many were poor quality rollers in my estimation. I saw them reverse there spin many times and this is seldom seen in the roller breed. It was a wierd thing to observe and ill never forget it. You devinely made the right move when you changed families. Now you have a better future in the fancy to breed better stock and aireal performers. Keep up the good job in regard of the roller breed. Ray
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crystalpalace
67 posts
Sep 11, 2007
8:03 PM
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J.W. those four black and white rollers are the old English stock. They are the same birds in Europe and America today. I have some of that stock in black and white,red and white,blue checkers,and a few other colors. That single black and white feather footed cock that sold for $700.dollors is from the Le Roy Smith family. I have a family of those birds in other colors too. Ray
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crystalpalace
68 posts
Sep 11, 2007
8:18 PM
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Hellow Milo i didnt see Pepe in those pictures south of Fresno. Please tell Pepe hellow for me,okay. Does Pepe have anymore #26 family? I have a few left that are recessive and white in coloration. They were crossed back into my mealy bar and blue check family with good results. They will be put into my web-site and photo bucket pictures this year. Remember those vicious dogs at Pepes parents house? Take care. Ray
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MILO
453 posts
Sep 11, 2007
8:38 PM
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Vicious is right! LOL We call them sooners. Sooner eat you, than bite you. LOL Pepe has almost the identical family as I have now. He has some 2267/329/40/1542 based birds that he has had for a while, and a line of this Billings stuff I have set him up with. I feel we are going in the same direction with the birds. I'll tell him you said hi.
c
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kcfirl
198 posts
Sep 11, 2007
8:50 PM
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Hi Ray,
as an active member and elected officer of our local roller club for 6 or 7 years now, I'd be very interested in hearing what happend to your club. I thik every club goes through it's ups and downs but it seemed your club was solid. We have our own issues, the biggest of which is 5 % of the guys do 95% of the work to keep the club going and we are getting really tired.
What happened with your club so I can learn what to avoid?
Regards,
Ken
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DeepSpinLofts
154 posts
Sep 11, 2007
9:01 PM
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Wow Ray.... reading the vast amount of information you put out around here is like trying to read a Roller Pigeon Encyclopedia from A-to-Z.
I once had some birds out of Pensoms famous #350 Cock in the mid 80's. Fast, tight Blue Bar White Side Badges & Pearl Eyed Yellow Checks. What do you know about that Ray?
Pensom defintely was the man. However... the Roller game wouldn't be where it is today without great roller men like McCully, Harter, Graham, Houghton, Plona, Hilton, Borges, Kiser, Smith, Perkins, Whittingham, Cadera, Roettenbacher, Kopp, Turner, Reed, Evans, Grover, Jaconette, Reed, Neible, Mason, Easley, Higgins and of course you Ray. (smile)
Keep up the good work @ Crystal Palace!
Talk to you later....
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
Last Edited by on Sep 12, 2007 10:13 AM
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W@yne
643 posts
Sep 12, 2007
11:37 AM
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Marcus you can add lots more names to Mason from the UK.
Bob Brown,
Bill Barratt,
Ernie Stratford,
Ron Adams,
George Kitson,
Les Bezance,
John Lenihan,
I could add many more to the list
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Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
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DeepSpinLofts
155 posts
Sep 12, 2007
12:59 PM
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Thanks for the names Wayne... I really appreciate it. I'm sure those men had some outstanding birds.
QUESTION: Have any of those 7 roller men you named written any books or memoirs in regards to their experiences with roller pigeons?
If so... can you name the books or book. I try to read as much as possible about these magnificently marvelous acrobats of the air.
Keep'em flying!
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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kcfirl
199 posts
Sep 12, 2007
2:32 PM
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Marcus,
Graham Dexter's Acrobats of the Air is the best book I've seen that covers a lot of ground in the UK roller fancy. He interviewed many of the guys on Wayne's list and gives a good overview of the sport in the UK as of a few years ago.
Regards,
Ken firl
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DeepSpinLofts
156 posts
Sep 12, 2007
2:55 PM
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I wanted to know Ray's thoughts on this mating I plan to try out.
I have a Orange Eyed 25ft Black Tick Lavender Norm Reed Cock (Black Beak & Dark Feet) that's fast & furious that I want to pair with a beautiful +50ft Yellow Eyed/Pink Beak -- Blue Bar Badge Whiteside Plona Hen.
QUESTIONS: Think I should give it a shot? Think the families will cross successfully? Only know thru trial & error correct?
My goal is to end up with a nice family of bars & checks similar to what Kenny Easley has down there in New Mexico.
{P.S.} And Ken.... thanks for the info on the book.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
Last Edited by on Sep 12, 2007 5:08 PM
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crystalpalace
71 posts
Sep 13, 2007
7:30 AM
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Marcus the lavender cock and blue bar badge hen must be fine rollers. You described the depth but you fidnt say anything about wing style whatsoever. Then what about overal type and style or expression excetera. I mean a breakdown of each bird from the toe nails to the end of the beak. Can you give us this information soon. You prbably have a chance breeding good young from this pair but give us more information about them. As ever, Ray
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kcfirl
201 posts
Sep 13, 2007
8:45 AM
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Marcus,
from what you describe, my guess is that the prodigy will be a bit on the hot side, but I would not doubt that a good family could be developed.
Question: If you want a family like Ken Easley's, why don;t you start with some birds form that family. Why take the long and possible impossible road?
Regards,
Ken Firl
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DeepSpinLofts
162 posts
Sep 18, 2007
6:52 PM
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Back again Ray for more of your valuable information.
The Lavender cock is an H-type performer on a medium-to-semi fast roll and he made that whirling whizzing sound when gravity pulled him to earth on a break. This particular bird comes from a highly stable line of aerial performers.\\
The Bluebar Badge has a slower wingbeat and comes from a deeper family of rollers (small percentage of brood from this line are often rolldowns). She's a very intelligent bird, has great homing instinct and was always glued onto the kit like a grape on a vine.
{P.S.} Hi Ken... I'm seriously thinking about buying a pair of proven breeders from Kenny Easley. Think I'll send him an email sometime this week.
Talk to you fellas later....
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
Last Edited by on Sep 18, 2007 6:56 PM
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Fire_Baller_916
280 posts
May 22, 2008
11:05 PM
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I wonder how did that pic of those 4 birds get in there...LOL...Those birds are Grahams Whittingham Rollers...
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Chai Seng
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DeepSpinLofts
788 posts
May 23, 2008
1:04 AM
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Greetings Ray....
What a magnificently marvelous archived piece of Roller Pigeon history in the United States you have provided for us.
Like Milo.... I too noticed a few things. Such as Don Ouellette being a regional representative for region #4 in 1983. This was right about the time I received my first shipment of rolling pigeons from Harry Ashcraft of Ohio (at the age of 18) to California at SFO Airport in San Francisco.
Hmm....
I guess you can say I've been serious about roller pigeons for quite some time now.
I also noticed that Stan Plona and Bill Pensom were in the snapshot above. Both men made some incredibly tremendous contributions to the sport!
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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flo
129 posts
May 23, 2008
2:07 AM
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How come the snap shots of Pensom and Plona as well as other great Birmingham roller man is in the same page as teh "Whittingham rollers"? I thought Pensom knew nothing of Whittinghams' strain. Did someone accidentally put the Whiitinghams with great Birmingham roller men's picture and also labeling the header "California Birmingham Roller"?
same picture found on this link: http://www.cichlidlovers.com/birds_fireballs.htm
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FLO
www.blacked-out-loft.webs.com
SAKTOWN, KALI4NIA
Last Edited by on May 23, 2008 2:15 AM
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jay black
10 posts
May 25, 2008
9:44 AM
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HI RAY I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER ME I SPOKE TO YOU OVER THE PHONE ME AND SOME OF MY CLUB MEMBERS WE ARE THE NEW CBRC CLUB OF 2007 THE PAPER WORK THAT YOU POSTED WAS VERY EDUCATIONAL FOR OUR CLUB AND WE WILL CARRY ON THE CBRC LEGACY TO THE FULLEST WRIGHT KNOW WE DON'T HAVE MANY MEMEBER'S BUT WE ARE A STRONG GROUP OF GUY'S THAT LOVE'S THE SPORT WITH ME AS THE ACTIVE TREASURE OF OUR CLUB (JAY-BLACK)OUR (PRES. PURE-ROLLER) AND (VIS. PRES. SPICEY) WE HAVE COME TOGETHER AND FORMED AN OUTSTANDING GROUP OF GUY'S THAT WILL MAKE ALOT OF NOISE IN THE UP COMMING YEARS IN THIS SPORT SO WACTH OUT FOR US AND NOTICE THE SCORE'S THAT WE WILL POST IN ALL THE UP AN COMMING COMPITTION AGAIN RAY THANK'S FOR SHARING THE PAPER WORK WITH US.
Last Edited by on May 25, 2008 9:53 AM
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