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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
Here is the real BS
Here is the real BS
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Mongrel Lofts
392 posts
Oct 11, 2007
9:28 PM
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When you sell a bird,, do you sell a good bird that you would use in the stock loft, or do you sell a bird that won't fly, rolls down, bumps or is just plain a cull. Some guys sell so many birds, there is no way they can be selling good rollers. I mean how many good ones do you breed in a year? How many are selling proven good rollers compared to proven none or bad rollers?? KGB
Last Edited by on Oct 12, 2007 7:39 AM
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pigeonflipper
19 posts
Oct 11, 2007
9:43 PM
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but i think it is bs with a point kgb,,,it looks like this,,going back some years i heard stories of a very succesful flyer,,mr neibel,,we will call him,,now i believe that working close to home allowed him to spend alot of time with his birds,,then i heard that out of 100 bred he would only keep 2 ,,now i would think that 2 out of 100 is a crap percentage,,and i can hear the howls of dismay already ,,but i wouldnt have those birds if you gave them to me,,if it was 40 out of 100 i think ok ,,good enough ,,so if the man who kept 2 out of 100 sold birds ,,do you think you are gettin birds that are good producers,,i think not,,no offence meant,,its just my thoughts and what ive been told,,,,
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FLY HIGH=ROLL DEEP
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Santandercol
1482 posts
Oct 11, 2007
9:53 PM
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Ken,
If I was to sell a roller it would at least be a decent flyer and spinner if that is what the buyer was looking for.If the buyer is just looking to have birds for the sake of having pigeons and not into the performance aspect of the hobby,sure they can have a cull bird for 10 bucks.Why not get 10 bucks for it?If a person is asking $50-$60 for a cull,that is plain and simple dishonesty.
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Kelly
Last Edited by on Oct 12, 2007 7:40 AM
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Mongrel Lofts
393 posts
Oct 11, 2007
10:06 PM
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Kelly,
On a more serious BS topic.. I have a few of the Monty stock I went to Lumby and picked up myself. Man there are some harsh BS rummors out there about them birds. Who started that BS??? LOL KGB
Last Edited by on Oct 12, 2007 7:40 AM
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Santandercol
1485 posts
Oct 11, 2007
10:35 PM
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Kenny,
Back to birds,,,,Al Hunt is a nice guy,eh!?And his wife Dorothy always puts on a feed for the guys.So what did you find with the Monty stock you got from Al?I've only been at this roller gig a year and a half and have not yet been able to put a mature full kit in the air.You know what it is like with preds and what not.I'm curious about your observations seriously now.No BS!!!LOL/.,-=0)9(8*7&^6%5$4#3@2!1~`
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Kelly
Last Edited by on Oct 12, 2007 7:41 AM
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nicksiders
2290 posts
Oct 12, 2007
7:00 AM
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I don't have the gonades to sell any bird; in fact I am hesitant to give 'em away. I have just got enough pride not to have someone say "Nick's birds are junk". Then you got two people saying it (them and me). I keep the best and cull the rest. I have culled birds I paid money for and I bet many of you have also. I just don't tell; I have nothing to gain by telling others that the birds I got from you were junk............hell, it may have been my fault. I may have screwed them up with my crappy management program.
Now, ain't this some bull?
Nick
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BigRiverRollerLofts
Last Edited by on Oct 12, 2007 7:43 AM
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3757
166 posts
Oct 12, 2007
7:02 AM
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Ken - You hit the nail on the head because there is a lot of BS out there and some of it comes from guys who others think are prominent. Case in point: There was a guy last year who came to my house to see the birds that I have from Herb Sparkes and Bruce Cooper. He came with the intent to scorn the pigeons and that is what he does. These guys do this to elevate themselves and probably because they have not done anything else in life worthwhile but pigeons.
Also, I speak to Bruce Cooper about this a lot regarding the Niebel pigeons. Which most of Monty's blood is from Bruce and some of the 266 stuff that he used. Bruce thinks very highly of Monty and they are good pigeons but people hear garbage and that is what they believe. Garbage in garbage out. It is sickning but people rather believe a lie than the truth!
Last Edited by on Oct 12, 2007 7:03 AM
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RUDY..ZUPPPPP
289 posts
Oct 12, 2007
7:17 AM
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Que Paso kelly,,,
How u been ese es hora de tomar una cervza....cheers
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Santandercol
1489 posts
Oct 12, 2007
7:21 AM
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Rudy,Que hubo,que tal,que mas,como estas hombre???
Aqui es un poco temprano todovia!!LOL!Rum-30 is just after 4pm.Flor de Cana is lo mejor!!!!De Nicaragua.
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Kelly
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1701 posts
Oct 12, 2007
7:35 AM
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Hey All, the part of posts in this thread discussing health-care and politics are going to be moderated, please do it yourself, otherwise you leave it to me and Val to do it.
Please help us out! :-)
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1702 posts
Oct 12, 2007
7:44 AM
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Hey Kenny, my experience has been that if the gene-pool has the goods, then you have the foundation to build on.
The success of the group of birds "is in the hands of the fancier". I have a lavendar cock that from the moment I pulled him from the nest, was destined to go into the stock pen.
Never flown him, he had a son, same thing, went to the stock pen and produced RRTC-05-73 which I flew out. This cock can roll deep at 40 and 50 feet, tight and good quality.
I am breeding RRTC-05-73 a great-grandson off my 903 foundation cock to his mother and daughters, I am getting deep and tight spinners from these pairings.
I figure I can do this (keep some birds not flown) because I know my birds. My point is that if Monty kept 2 out of 100, its probably because the 2 impressed him in some way that he wanted to add them to his program (flying/breeding). It DOES NOT mean the other 98 were junk, that defies logic, look at his record.
Merely that, he reached a point in his program, that keeping such a small number was all that was necessary to maintain and improve his stock, fly the birds he needed and give him sufficient breeding capacity to keep the system going.
For me, when a fancier buys a bird from me, he is buying the potential in the gene-pool, nothing more and nothing less. If I see a young bird not looking right, I cull it.
Had a guy just the other day ask if he could get birds that roll 50 to 80 feet, I told him just what he might expect working with this family. He has no false expectations or lies told.
Most months I try to keep anywhere from 1 to 4 rollers, I can't keep everything, no space. I regularly ship birds that I wish I could keep.
I know there is a big difference between the "feather merchant" looking for a quick buck and the serious professional breeder who is serious about his stock and endeavoring to supply a quality gene-pool to those who otherwise might be hard-pressed to find it.
Don't sell junk!
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Last Edited by on Oct 12, 2007 7:48 AM
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Electric-man
692 posts
Oct 12, 2007
7:47 AM
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I took are of it! I got rid of the whole other thread and moderated this one to where I think it is back on subject!
Sorry guys! I didn't feel this stuff looked good out here in the internet world! To many other people are watching!
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Val
"Site Moderator"
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1703 posts
Oct 12, 2007
7:48 AM
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Thanks for the help Val.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Deadendkid
12 posts
Oct 12, 2007
1:08 PM
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i think its easy for someone to take advantage of a begginer or some one just starting out i think its like anything else buyers beware also some people will buy things just to try to be in the incrowd i think the price of any squeker should never be more theen twenty five dollers each regardless if the breeder has won every fly from here to china anyone paying more then that probaly doesnt have much expierence or is isolated from any birds in his area or feels sorry for the seller
Last Edited by on Oct 12, 2007 1:09 PM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1706 posts
Oct 12, 2007
2:54 PM
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Hello Dago, with all due respect, I can appreciate you would only want to pay $25 for a pigeon, but when a man has money and he wants what he wants, he will pay more for it to get it if he has to. (SUV's, a house, faster computer, a larger house, fast cars, college education for his children, house on the beach, list goes on and on)
Is this wrong? No. It's done all over the country everyday. This is the USA the land of freedom and opportunity.
Create something of value and you can name your price. Can't afford it? Can't have it. Simple. lol
For someone who has no money, $25 is too much and he'll think $10 is too much and want it for free. I believe it is better to work hard, save and invest, take calculated risks to get what you want.
If someone wants something, he should go earn it, if it costs more than he has, then he can choose to earn more or not.
I have bought birds at $100 a piece before that were out of Homer Corderre stock. I place a high value on that stock and so am willing to pay what it takes to have it.
A person just buys what he can afford from those who sell what he wants at the price he can afford. Okay, lesson in capitalism over. LOL
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Last Edited by on Oct 12, 2007 2:55 PM
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fly-boy
15 posts
Oct 12, 2007
2:58 PM
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$25 is allot to pay for a bird to fly.But $250 might be very cheep if it is put in stock pen. I raise and milk dairy goats and I am looking for some specific straws of semen I would pay $1000 a straw if I could find it.Why would I pay so much? GENETICS It will save me many ,many years to get to that point.If I could ever reach it. Same way with pigeons. Jeff
Last Edited by on Oct 12, 2007 2:59 PM
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silentroll
135 posts
Oct 12, 2007
3:02 PM
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yes many people will rip of beginner because they know nothing and want to raise pigeon for performance and the joy of it. like me. im just 18 and been raising pigeon for three years now. I used to find people to buy from them. they pull out well known names like higgins and penson...
well all those pigeon does not exist anymore when met Johnny Smith and Brian McCormick. they helped out alot..
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1707 posts
Oct 12, 2007
3:28 PM
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Hey (sorry flyboy, I meant silentroll), yes, buyer needs to be aware. By the same token, plenty of us have given, yes, given quality birds away or have offered them for free to help someone out.
There is one young man who frequents this board and not having the money to buy my birds I have offered to give him some rollers more than once provided he would pay for the box and shipping. Nothing. LOL
I know of others who have experienced this same phenomenon. I guess "free" means the box and shipping too. LOL
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Last Edited by on Oct 12, 2007 3:35 PM
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Oldfart
190 posts
Oct 12, 2007
3:32 PM
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Hey all, I breed and fly Ruby's. Yes, I bought the best I could afford. I might have paid more for my starting stock but I don't think I would have any better! My point is short, I received my young birds along with years of hard work at Tony's expense. You are not just buying birds!!! You are buying hard gut busting work, years of sweat and toil!!! The time Tony invested into his birds will save me countless hours of frustration. Now its up to me. I'm not sure exactly how much this is worth, but the price I paid was small, considering.
Thom
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1709 posts
Oct 12, 2007
3:37 PM
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I believe J. Higgins and his birds are still around and doing well last I heard. He knows his stuff.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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fhtfire
1121 posts
Oct 12, 2007
4:00 PM
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I too fly Ruby Rollers and I LOVE them. They made it through a trial of 6 or 7 different strains that I started out with. Not to say they are the best.....but they were the best for me. I also kept my Mort Emami strain as well as one cock and two Chuck Roe Hens. Paying for good birds is worth it to get a leg up. I bought my first birds from Tony in Early 04 and they grew from there.
25.oo a bird is NOT to much to pay for birds that fly if they are from the right stock. Of course I would not fly them...I would breed from them and fly the young. Breeders are whatever you would be willing to pay. I am going to downsize some of my breeders next year to make more room for my new breeders...(I run a tight ship)..so I don't have a lot of room. Anyway...I am not going to just give them away either....Because they are PROVEN...and they will produce good birds. anyway...
One just has to remember that it is not the name or the strain that makes the birds...it is the fancier that makes the birds and the birds have to be right for you. I passed on some strains that most would give there left nut for....but they were not right for me....The strain that I really liked was Scott Campbells...but I could not get a grasp on getting them on consistant...but when they were on...they were the best birds I have ever flown...but again...they were not right for me.
One must remember...a feather merchant is not one that sells lots of birds.....a feather merchant is one that does not care about there performance or quality and they sell for greed and money..or pass off birds for what they aren't. As long as the breeder...flys his birds and keeps the best quality birds in the stock loft...makes sure that his new pairs are producing what he would want and still moving forward.....that is not a feather merchant....that is someone selling birds and giving someone a good start. There is a difference between Tony for example and others...
rock and ROLL
Paul
P.S. I raise Champion Dairy Goats for years!!! and I showed for dairies national and state level. Had more Grandchampions in my heard then you could shake a stick at....one of my bucks was on the cover of Dairy Goat Journal...anyway...\
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silentroll
140 posts
Oct 13, 2007
5:53 PM
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whats free cant be all free. If it seems that they cant even get the shipping or box, how are they going to get the food. then it'll be a waste of time.
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