roll-n-4-ever
44 posts
Oct 16, 2007
1:23 PM
|
BUYING BIRDS FROM A TOP FLYER OR A FAMOUS FAMILY ISNT ALWAYS GOOD. YOU HAVE TO BUY AND RAISE WHAT WORKS FOR YOU.... Everyone here can go buy kits from the top flyer in the world right now and i will asure you that the birds will not work for everyone the same...Just because i breed top quality rollers and they win for me does not mean the birds will work with you and your program!!!
BUT WE HAVE TO RESPECT THE TIME IT TAKES TO BUILD A CHAMPION ROLLER LET ALONE A FAMILY OF QUALITY CHAMPION ROLLERS..
|
sleepy1.don
21 posts
Oct 16, 2007
1:42 PM
|
yes I agree with you. you could get birds from a top flyer and not get the same results.you need to get birds that fit in the way you do things. training feeding and breeding.it all makes the diffrence.
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1721 posts
Oct 16, 2007
1:50 PM
|
Well, to my way of thinking, one doesn't quite know what family will work for him unless he actually has some to work with...
But before you know what family to get, you have to work with them, so you have to get some before you know what family will work for you, but before you know what family to get, you have to work with them, so you have to get some before you know what family will work for you, but before you know what family to get, you have to work with them, so you have to get some before you know what family will work for you, but before you know what family to get, you have to work with them, so you have to get some before you know what family will work for you, but before you know what family to get, (can somebody help me out of this programming loop?) you have to work with them, so you have to get some before you know what family will work for you, but before you know what family to get, you have to work with them, so you have to get some before you know what family will work for you, but before you know what family to get,............
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Last Edited by on Oct 16, 2007 1:51 PM
|
Oldfart
194 posts
Oct 16, 2007
1:55 PM
|
Should not the breeder manage his birds? Train their young and establish his own stub, no matter the source? Quality can be enhanced, mediocirty takes longer, the better the quality the shorter the task, maby!;-)
Thom
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1722 posts
Oct 16, 2007
2:06 PM
|
Hey Dago, gosh, your post seems so cynical? How does a young person gain such a perspective as this?
Have you been burned or know somebody that has who has blessed you with such a view of other roller fanciers? Not everyone is all that bad my young friend. Even those who don't fly competition but yet do have good birds.
I apologize in advance if mis-read your post.
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
|
birdman
399 posts
Oct 16, 2007
2:10 PM
|
Tony, can you finish that last part of post #1721 ? I was just starting to see your point but you lost me...lol
Last Edited by on Oct 16, 2007 2:12 PM
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1725 posts
Oct 16, 2007
2:18 PM
|
LMAO!!
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1726 posts
Oct 16, 2007
2:20 PM
|
I think it's called circular reasoning. Just when I thought I had a point, I realized I was seeing my behind. LOL
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
|
roll-n-4-ever
45 posts
Oct 16, 2007
2:31 PM
|
WE ALL KNOW YOU HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE BUT A REAL ROLLER GUY WILL DO HIS HOMEWORK... If you want to buy rollers and just buy anything from anybody your a loser from the start. You cant take a persons word anymore because now days everybody has champion rollers in thier loft.(LMAO)!!!!!! Breeders (about 75%)trick the birds and if you dont have the tricks to maintain a family, which most guys dont give instructions to the birds when you get them...(LMAO) HOMEWORK IS THE ONLY WAY TO BE AHEAD OF WHATS IN FRONT OF YOU.
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1728 posts
Oct 16, 2007
2:44 PM
|
I like this quote from Ted Nugent "I admit right up front — I didn't graduate from college. I was too busy learning stuff..."
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
|
birdman
400 posts
Oct 16, 2007
2:49 PM
|
How about, "Experience is the best teacher"
Russ
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1729 posts
Oct 16, 2007
3:03 PM
|
Hey All, I hope you realize this is all "tongue-in-cheek". No arguing meant. Just funnin' ya'll.
Paul Fullerton wrote a good article on getting started. I would recommend it as required reading for those just getting started: Starting Out ENJOY!
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
|
Electric-man
712 posts
Oct 16, 2007
6:01 PM
|
BTW, that is in the reading room if anybody can't find it!
Very good article if you haven't read it!
----------
Val
"Site Moderator"
|
fhtfire
1132 posts
Oct 16, 2007
6:59 PM
|
Man...that starting out article is damn good...LOL!!...Tony...I think my other article about the roller fancier would be of good reading...it talks of some of the tricks fanciers use.
But in all honesty...some strains or families dont have to be tricked or broken down to greyhounds or feed taken away to put on a good show. Joe Urbon and Dave Henderson have strains that are real good...Joe feeds mix year round...no wheat no milo crap...and his birds always look pretty good and he has kicked some arse over the years.
Tony has a strain that is really easy to work with and put on a good show as well as Mort Emami....I also found some of the Turners that I had like to roll without "tricks" they just were a little overcooked for me.....Some strains I could not get a handle on them and they did need "tricks"
Read my article....What I wrote is what I did...and believe me...I had some very WELL KNOWN fliers tell me I had to many families I need to focus on one..blah blah blah....
rock and ROLL
Paul
|
fhtfire
1133 posts
Oct 16, 2007
7:28 PM
|
Now to address the issue on the needing to fly comp to have good birds.....that my friend...to say it bluntly...is a BUNCH OF CRAP!!! Competition does make you work harder...fly more...etc. Some need competition to make them pay more attention.....but some people do not have to compete to pay attention to depth and quality...they may just have it in them to demand excellence from anything they dig into...
As far as competing.....that does not mean anything....a lot of it is luck and some skill as a manager...but I guarantee the top 40 or more fliers in the nation could win it on "any given Sunday". To many people base a mans pigeons on a one day fly....or how about looking at the point totals for a persons birds.
Perfect example....I myself qualified last year in the Fall fly...missed the World cup by a couple of points....Won the club fly for the Sacramento fliers over 8 or 9 flies....but yet I scored I think a 17 this year and my A-team got a big fat O......so a new flier could look on there and say "Man fhtfire has some shitty birds" but did he know we had 20mph winds, A falcon attacking the whole fly and a Coopers coming in about 10 minutes after the Falcon attacked...and one bird came down with a hole ripped in its side....get my point..What about Chuck Roe...or Scott Campbell...Dwight Wallace...Art Lee...These are some top fliers in our area...and they had real low scores because of the moult and bad weather....I hope you all get my point.
As far as competing......you are telling me that Rick Mee has crappy birds...he quit competing in 2001 or so I think....but he does not compete anymore...so his birds must suck...WRONG.....What about some other fliers....if they did not compete they would not have good birds. Competition brings out the best in some fanciers and the worst in others...some are just driven in there genetic make up to succeed and do not need competition...That is my brother.....me I am the competition guy...arm wrestling, lifting, drag racing etc etc....I like to compete..LOL
The people are TOTALLY RIGHT about buying a name of a strain. I really had a hard time excepting that Mort's birds worked for me...because of the "big named" birds that I had in my loft. After trial in error with MANY strains or families....I decided on a keeping a Non Competitor strain (Ruby Rollers)....A no name competitor Mort Emami.....I found out later he won the Utah stat fly a couple of times....LOL and I have one Cock and Two Hens from a flier that has been in the top 10 in the World Chuck Roe......My point is....I put the names aside and stuck with what worked for me. Remember...it is 80% the flier and 20% the birds.....Just remember...a LOT of things dictate how birds fly....getting birds from Ohio...may not fly the same in California.....some need more rest...some need minimal rest...some need no rest...some need more feed..some need less feed...some react to the yo-yo system...some react to total breakdown....get a bunch of strains and see what works for you...Names mean nothing...get birds that you can get or like...get out of your backyard and watch birds fly...so you know what to guage your birds too.
I thought the first birds I got were pretty good...LOL..then I saw Chuck Roe fly and my jaw hit the ground...I walked away with a cock and a hen from his stock loft and flew out a hen and I still have them today..they made the cut...back to my point...I thought I had some ok birds...saw some other birds and realized that my birds sucked ass!!
Point of the story...read my articles...they may help..as well as others in the reading room....rumage through all these posts...there are two or three books in this forum..LOL...and second...take all info with a grain of salt...take what you hear and apply it..if it does not work..move on.....just because a Super Roller guys says this is the way it is...that may not be true....trial and error...I myself have already proved some of the info that I have read or learned and found that they were false or not a for sure.
rock and ROLL
Paul
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1730 posts
Oct 16, 2007
8:29 PM
|
Hey Paul, hmmm..."Non Competitor strain (Ruby Rollers)....", Not sure I can agree with you on that accessment completely.
Let's not forget, I got my original two stock birds "903" and "994" from Sal Estrada who at the time was winning most if not all his local flys, I believe he also won his region once in the World Cup, guys came from all over to get a piece of Sal's birds.
I then had open access to all his related stock hens that I wanted, so while I get your point about the competition thing, you have to remember, Sal was a major competitor out his way for quite some time before he decided to call it for a few years.
I hope he doesn't mind me saying so, but just today, Sal and I were on the phone and he told me again that I do a better job of breeding these birds than he has. If you know Sal, he doesn't say things like this to make you feel good.
The Ruby family is built on competition birds and now I am beginning to get actively involved with it as long as it does not interfere with my endeavor to breed the Ideal Birmingham Rollers as I understand them or risk losing unreasonable numbers to bop.
In my view, the Ideal Birmingham Roller (which is my ultimate goal) is not the competition bird that so many seek in todays Birmingham Roller.
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
|
Skylineloft
236 posts
Oct 16, 2007
8:43 PM
|
Tony,
Sal did win the region that year.
I think it was 94 or 95. I was there.
There was a light drizzle and we sat up at the top of his driveway to watch the birds work at eye level. They put on a GREAT SHOW that morning. One of those kits you never forget.....lol
Ray
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1735 posts
Oct 16, 2007
8:56 PM
|
Thanks Ray for providing the year he won his region. I got my birds from Sal in the summer of 1993.
The reason I have had such access to Sal's inner breeder sanctum is that he and I grew up together in Paramount, California and were then and still are good friends .
If I recall correctly, as teenagers, I got Sal started into rollers. He and I competed then by trying to stray each others birds in. We kept whatever we strayed in.
We have been through some wacky things together and I consider him one of those friends that you have for life.
Hey Ray, you ever eat over at Sal's in the morning when his wife Emma cooks her famous Mexican breakfasts? See all those roller guys come piling into the kitchen and grub down?! LOL
Some good days back then. BTW, Sal and I still share some birds.
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
|
Skylineloft
237 posts
Oct 16, 2007
9:09 PM
|
No Tony, I never did.
But I consider Sal a good friend and A TOP NOTCH GUY in the roller hobby.
He did judge my birds a few times in the 90s and it was always a pleasure to see such a nice Guy. I have not seen him since I got back into birds but I do look forward to running into him soon. If you talk to Him, please tell Him I said Hi.
Ray
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1738 posts
Oct 16, 2007
9:11 PM
|
Will do Ray!
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
|
Skylineloft
238 posts
Oct 16, 2007
9:23 PM
|
One more thing about that fly Tony,
He won the region before it was all split up into the many regions it is today. Back then you flew against all of southern California.
It was one region. Great job still Sal!!!! We still remember...
Ray
|
fhtfire
1136 posts
Oct 16, 2007
11:21 PM
|
Tony,
I was not saying that your strain was not competition...I was saying that you were not competing. When I first saw your strain you were not competing. Has nothing to do with the history of your birds. you can have good birds and not compete. The point that I was making was that you were not a competitor but you had good birds. IT was a compliment...LOL..
rock and ROLL
Paul
Last Edited by on Oct 16, 2007 11:22 PM
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1740 posts
Oct 17, 2007
6:32 AM
|
Hey Paul, I knew what you were thinking exactly. THANK YOU for the compliment. I know you don't throw them around lightly either. I appreciate it. ;-)
I just felt like some might not read what you wrote the way you meant it. That CAN happen. LOL
That lavendar hen you borrowed from me...I was looking at her yesterday and man she is a fine looking roller specimen! I can't wait to funnel her gene-pool back to her father and grandfather for some line-breeding. I bet these come out super hot! I will watch the control and see if it holds up.
BTW, she is the daughter off "0041" and a great-granddaughter off "903".
Hey Nick, those are some band numbers for ya to remember. lol
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Last Edited by on Oct 17, 2007 6:33 AM
|