Alohazona
320 posts
Oct 20, 2007
4:11 PM
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Tony,I haven't seen a blog on your Ruby kits lately.So just wondering how they are doing?
If there is anybody else flying Ruby kits I would appreciate your input as well,on how they are comming along.
This is the time of year I love flying rollers ,cool crisp weather,nice winds,alittle rain here and there,can't beat it.
I have raised 4 Rubys worthy of the stockpen,a fifth hen spun her egg sack out,so I'm content in just flying her and glad that she made it through that.
These Ruby's will be a part of the next years breeding program.Two of them are hitting 20 to 30 footers and have been in the kitbox for 2 1/2 years.Their parents have been seperate in the stock loft for a good 8 months.So I'm looking at putting their best kids back on them...Aloha,Todd
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1780 posts
Oct 20, 2007
5:33 PM
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Hey Todd, here are some pictures of my A-Team. These are just a few. I am flying 24 right now and will work the numbers up until the 2008 World Cup to get down to a 20-bird team.
I have a B-Team as well, but it is made up of late 07 hatches and a few older birds.
These are 2006 and 2007 kit birds. I have several late hatches that may replace some of the A-Team depending how they develop til the Cup.
I am going for increased depth while maintaining quality and control this year and into next year. I am very excited about some of the 06 birds that have held up over 2 fly seasons. These will get a chance in the stock pen later on.
Ruby Roller A-Team
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Last Edited by on Oct 20, 2007 5:42 PM
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nicksiders
2351 posts
Oct 20, 2007
5:40 PM
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Hey Todd,
I said hey to Dan Galarza for you at the NBRC Convention. He said he misses you guys and Hawaii. He plans a vacation someday back to the islands.
Nick
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BigRiverRollerLofts
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hectorvicki2003@yaho
14 posts
Oct 20, 2007
7:58 PM
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One of our club members ,Robert Miller,is flying a combination Ruby Rollers and my stuff (Bob Scott).
He did pretty good on the F/F pre. His Ruby birds really impressed me they where rolling deep and fast.
Actually as good as my stuff LOL.
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Hector Coya
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gotspin7
290 posts
Oct 21, 2007
5:52 AM
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Nice birds Tony
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CSRA
316 posts
Oct 21, 2007
8:01 AM
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Very nice birds and up front T good job
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Alohazona
321 posts
Oct 21, 2007
5:29 PM
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Tony,
Those Ruby birds you posted are"DA KINE"!I have to admit,I am into rollers to see birds go "DEEEP"!The deeper the better!I have heard alot of mumbo jumbo over the years about rollers quality not being any good past 40 foot,frankly I think the ney sayers are just repeating someone elses words.Why, because good birds are where you find them,and solid stable birmingham rollers have character and wit about themselves.The "BIG FOOT"my deepest performer spends the last 20 foot trying to pullout but I dont see that as a fault,I see it as self preservation.
Any way,I brought up the "DEEP" schpeel,because I noticed Tonys blues were pretty darn deep.I pride myself in flying/breeding birds the way I like to see them in the air.Common sense says if you get enough good birds in a kit,no matter how close they are related or even from a different family,there will be a performance.Like life,somedays are better than others,LOL....Aloha,Todd
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tapp
406 posts
Oct 21, 2007
5:44 PM
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Nice looking birds Tony!
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Tapp
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Fire Brewed Rollers
1 post
Oct 21, 2007
11:25 PM
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The Ruby Rollers in my loft have been performing very well. At three to four months I get 5’ to 7’ rolls, at 6 to 7 months they are rolling 20’ to 25’ on the average. My A-Team of 20 birds is half Ruby Rollers. The Ruby Rollers I got from Tony are all breeders so I only fly what came out of my loft. All my birds are bred in single pins & I keep good records so I know what I get. They look very nice also.
Robert Miller
Last Edited by on Oct 22, 2007 12:04 AM
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gotspin7
292 posts
Oct 22, 2007
4:54 AM
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Robert, welcome to the site! and it sounds that you started of right, good record keeping is key!
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Sal Ortiz
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Santandercol
1557 posts
Oct 22, 2007
6:17 AM
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Hey Robert,
Welcome to RPDC!!Where do you hail from bud??
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Kelly
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ICEMAN710
119 posts
Feb 14, 2008
12:26 AM
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I thought I would bump this thread. anyone with any updates on your ruby's please chime in here.
Id like to get some rubys to try out in a year or so Tony, when you start working on that depth. Im liking those 30-40' spinners youve posted. Thats my ideal depth id like to see.
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Gary
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Windjammer Loft
238 posts
Feb 14, 2008
10:16 AM
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Hey Todd........I got 2pr of Ruby's on eggs at the present.
These youngsters will be my first ones to fly. I'll keep you posted on their progress. Looking forward to a surprizing year with these Ruby's.
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
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Electric-man
1140 posts
Feb 14, 2008
3:08 PM
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I got a pair that hatched earlier this week! One was quite a bit larger so I did the ole "switch aroo"! Parents never knew the difference! Can't wait to get some in the air! Had one pr that was already in training and starting to do flips and small roles, but the coops took them! Only two attacks in a month and two lost youngster, both my rubies!
Go figure!
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Val
"Site Moderator"
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PR_rollers
521 posts
Feb 14, 2008
3:54 PM
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Tony those Rubys are nice looking. I say pretty looking too.
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Ralph....
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jerries loft
84 posts
Feb 14, 2008
7:58 PM
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Tony does are real nice birds cannot wait till i get a couple flying next year.
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Jerries Loft
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Oldfart
477 posts
Feb 16, 2008
4:35 PM
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I bred from two pair last year but with a late start to my breeding season, I only had twenty three young birds. I lost three to B.O.P.'s and finished out the season with an even twenty. Exactly half were cocks. The best are being bred from this year along with the two original pairs. I liked their kitting and they stayed over the loft at about two to three hundred feet and flew with a good viewable speed. The oldest was only in the 5 month range when I was forced to shut down or lose them all! Most were starting to roll, not deep but with style. A few of the older birds were in the ten to fifeteen ft range, tight and smooth. One of my blue bar hens looked like a whorley gig she was so smooth and fast. I have a ten bird mixed kit that I plan on getting out just as soon as possible without just feeding the sky sharks. I am very happy with my Ruby's todate and look forward to this years young bird crop.
Thom
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Scott
38 posts
Feb 16, 2008
6:22 PM
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Those Mort birds look like a solid slide down hill Paul, they look way over done
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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fhtfire
1248 posts
Feb 16, 2008
8:22 PM
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Scott,
They actually the mort birds are pretty solid....there were some pairs that produced some birds that would not hold it together past about the year mark...but those pairs are long gone....I am finally at the point of control and holding it together for the long haul...that little black hen flew for 15 months and was solid all the way around...and that Lavender cock never bumped one time...was anywhere from 20-40'..fast tight and active....but when it came to landing...or flying low..not even a flip....Joe Urbon pointed that bird out a couple of different times....What is that lavender out of...I heard so many times...anyway...picture says a thousand words....good and bad...
Opinions are why we live in USA
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Missouri-Flyer
1300 posts
Feb 16, 2008
8:40 PM
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Paul,
You posted colors of Rubys that I have not seen on any of Tonys postings of his birds. Is it that your breeding open loft, and maybe had accidents, or is it that Tony is blind by those "other" colors?
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2194 posts
Feb 16, 2008
8:57 PM
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Hey Jerry, I guess you haven't been to the gallery!? They have been there for 4 years! LOL I select and pair birds according to the way I think I will get what I want.
Jerry, I get saddles, mottles, white sides, baldies. I keep what I need (performance not color). One of my best hens was 5051 and she was a red bar baldie. She is in the background of several of my breeders.
No mystery...
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
Last Edited by on Feb 16, 2008 9:07 PM
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Missouri-Flyer
1303 posts
Feb 16, 2008
9:02 PM
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Tony,
On Pauls first and second pic, the black and the Lav., I dont see any of those in your gallery.
Just thought Paul was breeding a cross to get those colors.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2195 posts
Feb 16, 2008
9:14 PM
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My foundation cock, 903 is a lavendar. Paul got the first black self from my line. I told Paul he couldn't have because I had never gotten one even close. He swore (not at me) that he did not mix the birds.
Not more than about 3 months after that phone call, I had my first solid black in the nest. Since then, I have gotten several more. I have one long time client who has received a couple of these from me and reports that they are good deep solid spinners.
Last year, one of my best birds was a black self, unfortunately, she ended getting sick and died. I currently have one in my B-Team and will be putting one I just weaned today into a young bird kit.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2196 posts
Feb 16, 2008
9:20 PM
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BTW, Paul, we will send you that item you asked about on your earlier phone message per your request. Joni likes you so no problem! LOL
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
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Oldfart
478 posts
Feb 17, 2008
6:53 AM
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From last years matings I had three black chk. selfs and one black self hen. The black self hen I have paired with a lavender self cock that Tony donated to my program. All of the black check selfs are hens, I lost one to the B.O.P. but will fly the others this spring.
Thom
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Electric-man
1145 posts
Feb 17, 2008
7:57 AM
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Donated?
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Val
"Site Moderator"
Last Edited by on Feb 17, 2008 8:17 AM
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Scott
39 posts
Feb 17, 2008
8:06 AM
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Paul, to be honest neither should go in stock regardless of how they are in the kitbox, no way no how can you build a solid family around those.
Some birds are just life long kit birds,those are prime examples of such , there is a little something to chew on,now you just need to figure out why I wrote what I wrote LOL.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Feb 17, 2008 8:15 AM
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Oldfart
479 posts
Feb 17, 2008
8:36 AM
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Val, Very generously on loan from Tony.
Thom
Last Edited by on Feb 17, 2008 8:46 AM
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fhtfire
1249 posts
Feb 17, 2008
9:15 AM
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Hey Jerry,
I also got two blacks with white flights this year from Tony's stuff.....so the black is floating around in there....as far as the Black hen up top....in the right light she shows bars...anyway...The parents were not in an open loft at the time of breeding...LOL
Wait until you see what I get when i throw a fantail in there...
rock and ROLL
Paul
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fhtfire
1250 posts
Feb 17, 2008
9:26 AM
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Scott,
I am confused here...YOu can tell by a photo that a bird can't produce.....or it should be a kit bird and nothing else...The little mealy bar up top..was the very bird you handled and said that she is the best feeling bird in my loft and hopfully she will have a motor...well she does and it is a HEMI!!!
I really do not know what you are getting at....Can't build around those birds....then do you have any suggestions...I have had many the families in my loft and these worked best for me.....
I have had national judges and pretty reputable guys say they like my birds...Joe Urbon said that I had come a long way and my birds looked good....Nick Siders....do I need a resume....or get references.....I do not claim I have the best birds in the world...
For your info...I have bred so many champion livestock...that I kind of know a little bit about how breeding works and I have alway had a good eye and a gut feeling on picking good breeders...weather it be Goats, Sheep, Cows...Pigs...and so on....I have alway been the one to go against the grain when it comes to breeding.....I do not go my here say or I heard you should do it this way...I put my trial to the test in real life..and if it works great...if it does not...then I take the left fork instead of the right fork in the road....anyway.....Thanks for the compliments on my birds...LOL!!
I am just one that has to prove it to myself that something will or will not work...I have already found so much bullshit on what to do and what not to do...Prime example...if you breed to different strains together the F-1 will not produce good spinners...BULLSHIT!!!! Anyway....whatever....
Second thing is....I like to compete...and strive for excellence in everything I do....weather it be on a football field, wrestling mat, deer hunting..whatever..you challenge me and I will rise to the occasion...but the birds to me are fun.....Getting all into them just for the sake of saying that I won region...assisted in my wife hitting the rode..or ex wife..LOL...so to be honest...Birds are way down on my plate at this point in time....so anyway....thanks for the advice..
rock and ROLL
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Missouri-Flyer
1306 posts
Feb 17, 2008
9:33 AM
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Paul Ol' Buddy,
When you get that Birmingham Rolling Fantail to split those tail feathers and spin, then I am all in...LOL
Scott, I am confused about your post to Paul also.. I think at times that I am loosing my sense of thought!
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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c robbo
67 posts
Feb 17, 2008
9:59 AM
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i like the mealy bald nice bird.
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luis
655 posts
Feb 17, 2008
10:01 AM
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Well put Paul!Just like our birds we must also be balanced...LOL
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Scott
40 posts
Feb 17, 2008
11:34 AM
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I'm talking about those two on the bottom Paul, look at them and compare them to the birds on top,which ones look like they ride the small school bus and are only allowed to eat with a spoon, it is pretty obvious.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Feb 17, 2008 11:41 AM
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Missouri-Flyer
1309 posts
Feb 17, 2008
11:38 AM
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Scott,
Without looking at the overall makeup of those birds you pointed out, we have to take Pauls word that they are worthy of his breeding program. He stated that the Lav. was the fastest bird he had bred to date, so he must think highly of that bird..
The black to me looks a little on the fat, broad chest side, but again, it is a breeder, and expected to be out of shape.
You have a good eye Scott, and I know you better than to think that you would judge a bird alone by its body makeup, without seeing that bird fly.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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fhtfire
1251 posts
Feb 17, 2008
11:48 AM
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Jerry,
You are right about that bottom bird...she was a breeder and if you look close you can tell she if feeding young...when the photo was taken was right after feeding them..her crop was full to the brim...lol...she looked totally different as a flier...she was a rocket.....the Lavender photo was taken when the bird was about 6 months old...and starting to molt as you can tell by the feathers..being all F'd up...the picture does not do that bird justice.....he was a bad SOB...and he actually looked better when he was 6 months older.....I will put a photo of the same bird up soon....now that he is in the stock loft..you will see the difference...
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Steve_uk
337 posts
Feb 17, 2008
12:10 PM
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Personally i think they look weak and inbred the forhead is way to bulged but thats my opinion.
Steve...
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Missouri-Flyer
1310 posts
Feb 17, 2008
12:55 PM
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Steve,
That is the difference from the U.S birds being a stronger type of bird versus those that you have over the big pond... The birds over here, as you can see from the hundreds of photos posted here the past few years, are of a stronger, more muscled up specimen than what you guys are flying.
To me, the birds I have seen from some of the over seas guys post look on the weak side, but again, what do I know.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
Last Edited by on Feb 17, 2008 12:56 PM
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Steve_uk
338 posts
Feb 17, 2008
1:03 PM
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Exactly you dont no.
Steve...
There not stronger type there weaker
Last Edited by on Feb 17, 2008 1:04 PM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2197 posts
Feb 17, 2008
1:13 PM
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Hey Steve, yes, it IS your OPINION now isn't it? Cheerio! LOL
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
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Missouri-Flyer
1311 posts
Feb 17, 2008
1:14 PM
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Lets see if I have this right Steve,
You are telling me that a guy that is 5'6 and weighs 145 lbs is just as capable of lifting the same weight and being as strong as a guy that is 6'2 and weighs 225 lbs?..Not possible!
SOME of those birds that I have seen from the UK guys look like that 5'6, 145 lb guy..They just cant hold water to the stronger, more physically fit type of bird..
Now, dont get this wrong, they can possibly roll, but not with the strength that the harder birds will.
Steve,
If you put 2 birds of these that we are talking about, into the air, and they both have the SAME work rate, I dont think the smaller, lighter, less muscled bird can hold its own... He will be tired when the more muscled bird would be ready for round 2.
Last Edited by on Feb 17, 2008 1:17 PM
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Steve_uk
339 posts
Feb 17, 2008
1:22 PM
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What the hell you on about body type for ive bred from rollers that are from a 40 year breeding program and ive seen this weak type bird you misunderstand the word weak the body and feather type is nice but the head and face is totally inbred and weak.
Steve
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George R.
169 posts
Feb 17, 2008
1:24 PM
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Jerry
strenth n rollers is not what you want. The stronger the Birds the easier it is for them to resist the Roll.
I like Cocks that look like HENs and I like Hens that look like HENS.
try Breeding out of a Hen that looks like a Cock and try Breeding out of a Cock that is Huge and you will see the Results.
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Steve_uk
340 posts
Feb 17, 2008
1:26 PM
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Them birds dont look like cocks or hens.
Steve...
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George R.
171 posts
Feb 17, 2008
1:32 PM
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steve
I wasnot refering to any Birds posted I was talking about what Jerry said about strenth
If you look at a gymnist they are not all MUSCLE bound , They are ausually FIT, and CUT, and well perportioned (BALANCE)
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Scott
41 posts
Feb 17, 2008
1:42 PM
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Jerry, the reason that many you see posted here look "strong" is because they are.
My guess is many of them weren't flown out, the strongest allways look the best off of the ground.
The best don't look too strong or too weak and that is the balance that we must strive for.
My guess from what I've seen of Pauls "Mort" birds is that the Rubys hold them up when crossed.
Last Edited by on Feb 17, 2008 2:18 PM
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W@yne
1082 posts
Feb 17, 2008
1:43 PM
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Jerry
You said
You are telling me that a guy that is 5'6 and weighs 145 lbs is just as capable of lifting the same weight and being as strong as a guy that is 6'2 and weighs 225 lbs?..Not possible.
Jerry
We are flying birds, Lifting weights has nothing at all to do with flying.
SOME of those birds that I have seen from the UK guys look like that 5'6, 145 lb guy..They just cant hold water to the stronger, more physically fit type of bird..
Jerry
For the % towards you guys entering the WC over there i think we hold our own in the WC comps dont you think?
Now, dont get this wrong, they can possibly roll, but not with the strength that the harder birds will.
Jerry
You better believe it buddy i believe the pigeons over here can hold there own against any rollers in the world.
If you put 2 birds of these that we are talking about, into the air, and they both have the SAME work rate, I dont think the smaller, lighter, less muscled bird can hold its own... He will be tired when the more muscled bird would be ready for round 2
Jerry
The muscle is in proportion to body of our rollers over here, Tiredness is controlled by stamina nothing to do with muscle build up.
SO LETS JUST AGREE TO DISAGREE ON THIS ONE.
George
Well observed and you are correct.
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Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
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Last Edited by on Feb 17, 2008 2:12 PM
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fhtfire
1253 posts
Feb 17, 2008
3:19 PM
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Scott,
You hit the nail on the head...Crossing them up props the Mort birds up and Vise versa...just like my last post....I wanted to give the Rubys a little more strength.......and take the strength from the Mort birds....then they kind of equal out...sometimes...lol...but that is the ideal that "I" am looking for....something in the middle.....I took the best character from each strain that was closest to my ideal...and then choose the matings.....it is working out AOK...
Scott...you totally hit the nail on the head..Now I see what you are talking about...but when you say to not breed from them...you got you use what you got...plain and simple...if you bred the perfect bird everytime you would never move foreward....I am hoping that what I have now will get better through selective breeding....I bet that at some point every good strain in its beginings was made of breeders that were there ideal...
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Scott
45 posts
Feb 17, 2008
4:15 PM
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Paul, the principle is correct, but the parameter is too wide of a gap (my opinion), breeding birds that roll is easy.
Breeding birds that can handle the roll is where it gets tricky, keep in mind when it comes to what we are buiding we must look at the BIG picture and we are trying to build a solid foundation first and formost, it aint easy but that is the fun part.
Here is what I see with those two birds, I don't think that they carry a lot of roll, I think that you saw alot of roll because they are mentally weak, if they had much roll gene they would have fallen apart, if you flew them longer I think you would have seen such (there is something to chew on LOL).
Within my own loft I want a bird that have it mentaly but is full of roll, but I do have a few birds in stock that are weaker mentally than I like, but I never mate them with thier like in the head dept.(I'm lying,I do have two paired together, but few would peg them) same priciple as you crossing the stronger Rubys on the Morts, only the parameter isn't nearly as wide.
Paul I'm not picking on you, but we all learn from this stuff and when I see birds such as you posted above it is just so obvious, you have strong and very weak all in the same post, any birds that look that mentally weak must be held up by somthing other than themselfs, our lofts and game plans are allways in motion,and they change from year to year, and I think what I posted will give you some food for thought,just my honest opinion of coarse and nothing else.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Feb 17, 2008 4:25 PM
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