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Right Type


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Mongrel Lofts
409 posts
Oct 26, 2007
5:48 PM
My question is the right type for what? Many of today's birds feel great in the hand but are bred wrong in my opinion to roll with good style. Way to many fanciers think a short cobby bird is right type! We tend to want birds built short and wide chested.. Have you ever noticed that as you shove the tail up the arse, the chest gets wider. Not 100% of the time, but as a general rule! These short coupled birds can roll with speed, but that wide chest and out of balance build causes the wings to come out to the >< style. The shortness of the tail takes away the chance for the most part of seeing the whole.. I don't like long birds, but i don't like them short butter balls either. They can feel perfect in the hand and attract many a roller fancier while in the coop, But taking a phrase from my friend Hiene Bijker, They are SH*T!! LOL Never get the style of the Birmingham, but they sure can look good from the side! Just do all you can to stay out from under the kit, this is when the >< factor will appear on them birds with wide chest and short tails.. Just my opinion,, KGB
birdman
410 posts
Oct 26, 2007
6:24 PM
I've noticed the same thing with those short casted big chested birds. Some roll violently but nearly always like an 'X' style or worse. No thanks.

Last Edited by on Oct 26, 2007 6:29 PM
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1810 posts
Oct 26, 2007
7:24 PM
Fascinating! So your experience is the birds YOU have seen are as you described, doesn't mean they all are the same way. Your experience with them is anecdotal, I watch mine from underneath and am really only happy with nothing less than an "H" style roll.

What you saw is probably more a result of improper selection of quality on the fanciers part, not that shorter cobby style birds are somehow lesser birds than a longer cast one.

A cobby and a long roller can both be good rollers. It's just that one is more efficient with its energy and also looks good on the ground.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Mongrel Lofts
410 posts
Oct 26, 2007
8:09 PM
Tony,
I have seen them from Homer, to Higgins, to Dave Sanchez, to Kiser, Borges, Jay Starley , Norm Reed to you name it Tony. The birds with the tail shoved up the arse with the wide chest have bad style but can be fast. Just my opinion and observation over many years of watching birds in tons of lofts. Their is a balance that can be shorter but not so wide chested. I have to watch the Monty birds. I have bred some from them that could win a dual purpose show they are built so nice, short and wide chested.. Almost hard to hold they just force themselves out of your hand from wide chest and no arse! Tony, your right it is fascinating that from coast to coast, Loft to loft, this is the one type of bird I have seen consistently show poor style. My guess is we are talking about two different type's of bird Tony.. There is a shorter, less chesty bird that is not so out of balance. I know its just my experience and my antidotal experience.. Thing is, its not experience gained from just watching my own birds. I learned this from watching birds in the air and handling them on the ground in some of the best lofts in this country. Funny, some of the guys flying this type, liked them on the ground so much, they just bred for speed and ignored the >< style. We all make choices and decide what we want in our lofts. Some care as much about that cobby type as they do roll, even to the point of ignoring style of wing in the roll for style of type in the show pen. This is just my experience and opinion. No one has to agree, its just what I have come to know as true over the years. Tony, take a look at this red check Monty cock. He is not short or long but balanced. This is the type I prefer. Would he be off from what you call tight type? I bet we are close to the same than we are apart Tony. Just a guess. KGB
IRA-95-#1595

Last Edited by on Oct 26, 2007 8:37 PM
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1812 posts
Oct 26, 2007
8:29 PM
Yeah Kenny, I am not talking chesty to the point of being out of balance or those ones that are so wide in front and taper so severe they like squirt out of your hand when you hold it! LOL

My cock birds tails tend to be about 1/2 to 3/4 inch beyond the end of the primary's, you get a sense that it might be long, but when you consider the length of the whole bird, they are NOT long at all.

BALANCE IS THE KEY. I want the complete roller in all its virtues!
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria

Last Edited by on Oct 26, 2007 8:30 PM
Fire Brewed Rollers
5 posts
Oct 27, 2007
8:21 AM
The Right Type is always the Type you like to fly. My A-Team has big birds and small birds. They all spin, the big birds & the small birds produce nice donut holes. My smaller birds tend to spin faster and my bigger birds have a lot more depth. I like to see a lot of depth in my team.

My smaller birds tend to have better control & roll 20 to 30 feet. Ruby Roller line, all Pedigreed birds.

My larger birds tend to roll 30 to 50 feet. My larger family of birds came from Hector Coya & go back to Bob Scott.

I also have a Gene Giegoldt line of Pedigreed birds.

I use to fly Model airplanes all the time and the shorter ones turn a lot faster. I still have U-Control planes. The combat planes are all flying wings, very, very short, my all time favor it is the VooDoo with a Fox 35 and silk on the wings.

We should always try to get new people set up with the current trend of birds and fly a 20 bird Kit. I think all those famous birds in the past were flown with two or three other birds to keep them going and you scored the single bird, not in the 20 bird kit like today.

New people in the sport don’t usually have the luxury of being able to have 2 or 3 different families of birds, so they should go for current style, smaller birds.

There is always the exception in birds, some are culls and some are fantastic. Big birds roll fast, small birds roll fast.

Just keep good records and fly what you want.

Robert Miller
Fire Brewed Rollers

Last Edited by on Oct 27, 2007 8:24 AM
Donny James
64 posts
Oct 27, 2007
9:23 PM
hay kgb,
you brought out some good points what is the right size for the rollers?Myself i like a 8 oz cock and a 7 oz hen thats should be but every one got there own ideas.enough said on the subject...donny james
classicpony
496 posts
Oct 29, 2007
6:23 PM
Nice Pix of the birds, they sure are looking good.

Jim
Illinois
Skylineloft
277 posts
Oct 29, 2007
6:47 PM
Milo,
I like the birds you posted. they do show good overall balance.
Some would think they are long cast and they might not do well in a show, but they sure look well balanced to me.
I have always been a sucker for a medium sized short bird thats not to big in the chest. I have been trying to lean towards the longer cast bird with the same type. I think thats where you will find most of your A frame spinners.
If they are too long cast I have seen them start to wing switch, thats been my experience from the past.

Ray
Fire Brewed Rollers
6 posts
Oct 30, 2007
2:08 AM
Hi MILO

Those birds all look like the right type & size to me, I like the middle bird the best. You can get a good ideal of their size from the 1/2" wire floor. All the keels are not exactly the same or straight, so how do you really measure them. I say I like a 2" to 2 1/4" keel, but how do we really measure it? My Tape doesn't measure right. LOL

Robert Miller
Fire Brewed Rollers

Last Edited by on Oct 30, 2007 2:11 AM
Skylineloft
279 posts
Oct 30, 2007
11:58 AM
Milo,
Im sure you remember this bird I posted earlier this year.
She's a medium size bird, not too wide in the chest, has a longer thin feather and you could poke your eye out with that long beak if your not careful. lol
This bird was a A frame spinner, 30 to 40ft, one of my favorites. Its last fly was in the Fall Fly.

Ray

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Skylineloft
284 posts
Oct 30, 2007
6:07 PM
Yep,
And a few others.....lol

Ray
diamondrollers
121 posts
Nov 01, 2007
10:59 PM
hey guys i got the right type just didnt look hard lol


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