hectorvicki2003@yaho
52 posts
Nov 16, 2007
5:31 PM
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-Where do you think the short beak comes from,
I have some birds that produce verry small beaks.
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Hector Coya
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PR_rollers
71 posts
Nov 16, 2007
5:36 PM
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Hector could be from lovebirds..lol jk,,,..----------
Ralph....
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Santandercol
1641 posts
Nov 16, 2007
5:52 PM
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Maybe it's something to do with the crests!?Chuckle.
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Kel.
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CSRA
467 posts
Nov 16, 2007
6:05 PM
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Beaks do not roll lol
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crystalpalace
180 posts
Nov 16, 2007
6:10 PM
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The first family of Rollers that I encountered with short beaks came from the #26 family. Some have normal size beaks but the short beak is noticeable too. You dont see very many short beaks in the Roller breed. The biggest majority of Birmingham Rollers have medium size beaks. Bill Pensom was responsible for breeding and flying the #26 family so he must have known where it started from. I still have a small stud of the #26 family and they are red in color. Ray
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
231 posts
Nov 16, 2007
7:23 PM
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Ray , how's it going? One particular line that comes to memory is the Dave Goss line, his family line of BR's have a short beak to me and I see that it is a dominate trait generations down. The lofts that I visit,I inquire about those birds that have a shorter beak and end up going back to his family. Just my obervasion.
One thing that I notice the short beaks on these birds make their heads look wierd. Just my observation.This bird has a nice typy body.
R-LUNA
Last Edited by on Nov 17, 2007 6:43 PM
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Skylineloft
375 posts
Nov 16, 2007
7:57 PM
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Just thought I would share this bird I bred out of this year bred by Robert Parker. I think she would be considered a short beaked bird, what do you think guys ?
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Ray
Breeding Quality Spinners,
"One Roller At A Time".
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CSRA
485 posts
Nov 17, 2007
2:14 PM
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Thats a short beak roller very nice i must say
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hectorvicki2003@yaho
54 posts
Nov 17, 2007
5:37 PM
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So where dose the short beak come from?
I have some Norm Reeds that have short beaks and a few Higgins too.
If its from crosses done 100 years ago then they are not pure.
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Hector Coya
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Phantom1
171 posts
Nov 17, 2007
6:25 PM
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Hi Ray,
I want that bird. LOL!!!
I had some birds back in the late 80's early 90s that were shipped in from Ohio. They were thrown in with some homers my pigeon mentor was getting in, as a request from him and a gift for me. They were dang near Helmet beaks! But talk about a body on them!!!!!! I have no idea what the bloodline was. I spoke about them to Don Sutton and he said he'd seen a lot of medium faced rollers come out of the Ohio area. Don't know if this might be something to expound upon.
Eric
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1879 posts
Nov 17, 2007
6:28 PM
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Nice looking bird, have some with like that with the short beak. Showing up in some nice spinners over here.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
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crystalpalace
183 posts
Nov 17, 2007
7:48 PM
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There are some Roller fanciers living in California that believe the #26 red recessive family was bred into the old Richard Jaconnette family. Higgins,Reed,Goss and Parker are breeders that are breeding from this old family. If this is true the short beaks are coming from the #26 family. Sonny Ray
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Gregg
280 posts
Nov 17, 2007
7:57 PM
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As guys breed toward a slightly smaller bird you will find that the "smaller type" tends to enhance itself. I will not go so far as to call smaller "dominant" but it replicates very easily from a genetic perspective. Also, as you inbreed and line breed, you bring traits to the forefront and select, how ever unwittingly, you do select. The smaller shorter birds that is being seen in many lofts is just that again, selection.
By the way, that is one nice looking bird.
Gregg.
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Phantom1
172 posts
Nov 17, 2007
8:10 PM
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Gregg,
My experience is that size decreases with inbreeding as well.
Eric
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Donny James
111 posts
Nov 17, 2007
8:37 PM
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hay ray great bird if you ever get rid of her i want her i got a place in loft for her...........donny james
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crystalpalace
184 posts
Nov 17, 2007
8:37 PM
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The short beak and round head is a fault in the Birmingham Roller breed. Bill Pensom and the original breeders that created the Biemingham Roller spoke about this in their articles. They said, the head and beak should be in proportion with the Racing Homer breed. Round heads and short beaks are the Ideal Standard in the Tumbler breed. The cere around the eye should be a light flesh color and not dark in coloration. There are many different head shapes that have proven to be good quality competition Rollers. But you hardly ever see dark ceres and short beaks in the breed. Back in the late sixtees and early seventees the dual purpose Roller was being bred and it caused many heated debates. There arent many dual purpose Rollers bred today because they dont posses the style or velosity that is required to fly in competition flys. Sonny Ray
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Skylineloft
379 posts
Nov 17, 2007
8:41 PM
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Eric,
Sorry guy, I sold that bird last week. lol. I produced some good birds from her but I wanted to tighten up the family Im working with so I moved on from her. She now lives in the high desert and went to a guy that has birds that are closely related.
Thanks for the comments guys,
I have bred from Robert's birds in the past and always had good luck with them.
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Ray
Breeding Quality Spinners,
"One Roller At A Time".
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RUDY..ZUPPPPP
GOLD MEMBER
2393 posts
Dec 29, 2008
5:32 AM
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.
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RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
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cv rollers
205 posts
Dec 29, 2008
10:58 AM
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the one on the right has a smaller beak compare to the one on the left ,was told they are hilton/pensom based.
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brudahpete
359 posts
Dec 29, 2008
11:26 AM
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Check out this site, There are many who beleive that the Birmingham line was bred down from Turkish lines The Takla & Bursa breeds. This link will blow your mind! & I thought I knew about pigeons!!! Lol! The Takla breed has a short beak.
http://www.turkishtumblers.com/
Last Edited by on Dec 29, 2008 11:28 AM
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kopetsa
2621 posts
Dec 29, 2008
1:12 PM
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i'm a fan of big beaks! LMAO
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Andrew Carmichael
AB Canada
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Mount Airy Lofts
850 posts
Dec 29, 2008
3:31 PM
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http://s214.photobucket.com/albums/cc40/khaosthor/?action=view¤t=IMG_2058.jpg
This cock bird is a fine spinner of 25 foot. This has been the only bird that I bred with this short of a break. I can't tell you where the genes for short break comes from but I bred it off the very old line of Tom Stone's family of Rollers.
I think it does have some thing to do with inbreeding, all tho I can't say to what extent.
Thor
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It's all about the friends we make :)
Last Edited by on Dec 29, 2008 3:32 PM
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Joe Dan
134 posts
Dec 29, 2008
6:21 PM
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The short face in the Higgins and Reed birds that I have go back to 343, 778's sister. And yes, they were directly out of a Jaconette pair, 631/638 to be exact.
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Joe Dan Parson
Full Turn Lofts
North Texas
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tucknroll
40 posts
Jan 01, 2009
12:41 PM
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Guys, All genetic faults or insecureties will come to the fore front when we harshly inbreed the birds. Good stable seed stock that has been tested will hold up with gentle inbreeding. Most of all the families that we all work within have derived from basically the same source. Experience being your teacher will shed some light if you are of the observing type and keep copius records. The first thing that will go when you harshly inbreed is head deterioration thus the beak is one of those elements. The famous Monty Tear drop hen had a short beak. Richard Millers stock from Ohio had alot of short beaks and his birds derived from Joe Roe's old family of blacks. Clyde Davis from Indiana has birds within his family that have the shorter beaks some of the old Houghtons had the shorter beaks as well and the list goes on and on. Don't think for a minute that any of the aforementioned fanciers crossed them up with short faced clean legged tumblers. I have seen many a good solid perfomer in the true Birmingham imports that had heads and beaks that could pass for an (AFT) American Flying Tumnbler. One things for sure it doesn't inhibit thier ability to display the true art form of performance in the air does it. Think on that!
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don33
4 posts
Jan 01, 2009
7:20 PM
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tucknrol, Nice acknowledgments on the effects of inbreeding and the characteristics it can have on the size and shape of the birds and certain traits that they.Thanks for sharing!
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nicksiders
3205 posts
Jan 02, 2009
4:48 PM
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Joe Dan - Do those short beaked birds also produce short beaks only. Or, do you find that short beaks is just genetic anomaly. I once had a pair those possessed short beaks, but it was rare that I got any from them.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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Velo99
2021 posts
Jan 02, 2009
5:07 PM
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This a straight up Pensom cockbird off Sparkes stock.
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V99
blue sky single beat
in cadance performing now
earth beckons the winged
drawn breath is let quickly forth
orchestral movement follows
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\__\_/-|_| \__\____
/()_)__48___()_)\__\
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RUDY..ZUPPPPP
GOLD MEMBER
2414 posts
Jan 02, 2009
6:33 PM
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I have miller birds from ohio lots of short beaks.....
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RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
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Hector Coya
377 posts
Jan 02, 2009
6:39 PM
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AK-Roller Loft
57 posts
Jan 03, 2009
7:07 PM
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Norm Reed, Fast & Deep~
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Ak
Last Edited by on Jan 03, 2009 7:11 PM
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richard.r
136 posts
Jan 03, 2009
7:35 PM
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One of my original foundation birds The Red Devil Hen 02-588. short beak but has been yo-men producer for the past 7 years
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