luis
328 posts
Nov 19, 2007
2:30 PM
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Do any of you guys breed out of season just to be able to maintain numbers?
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RUDY..ZUPPPPP
494 posts
Nov 19, 2007
3:55 PM
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I will breed year round
I have 5 prs on eggs will hatch next week......
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sundance
290 posts
Nov 19, 2007
5:11 PM
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I usually start the week after Christmas. this year I`m starting the week after Thanksgiving.
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Butch @
Sundance Roller Lofts
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elopez
66 posts
Nov 19, 2007
5:35 PM
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Hello Luis,
If I remember correctly you mentioned that you're not too far from me here in Hacienda Heights. Because of our issue with the bop here, I am keeping a few pairs down so I can make sure my numbers are okay for next year. I've been mixing my fly times and holding them in a few days and it has helped me as I have only lost 2 to the bop this month. In the begining of the year I originally started with 20 pairs but couldn't get a kit going because of the bop's so I put down 32 pairs and it has made a difference as I know have 4 kits going...
If you only have a few pairs than I would suggest to keep breeding.
Efren
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Donny James
116 posts
Nov 19, 2007
5:40 PM
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no i don't but i got 2 on a baby in the grit bowl i for got to throw the eggs out both are black w/f oh well stuff happens and i have to be on my toes next time...............donny james
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ICEMAN710
39 posts
Nov 19, 2007
5:42 PM
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so you guys that are breeding year round, are you also flying year round? Is their a certain period in time where you give your breeders a break? and last question, those of you who breed year round, is it in open loft or individual breeding pens.
Gary
Last Edited by on Nov 19, 2007 5:43 PM
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Electric-man
872 posts
Nov 19, 2007
5:44 PM
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I have 6 pr of BRs together right now! They have all hatched their young and are a couple a weeks along! I knew that I could get them before it got too cold, just hoping now that I can get them in the air! So far, the sharks haven't been bad!
Probably won't raise anymore BRs till Feb! I will put my parlors together after the show next month!
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Val
"Site Moderator"
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Electric-man
873 posts
Nov 19, 2007
5:48 PM
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Yes, I am still flying! Havent lost one to the sharks in about a month! I don't believe that they will ever reach their potential if we don't fly them out while their young!
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Val
"Site Moderator"
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Ballrollers
953 posts
Nov 19, 2007
6:45 PM
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luis,
Yes, I will breed out of a few pair all year 'round. I am able to fly the young out without significant losses. One of the best birds in my A-kit was a late hatch (Sept-Oct)bird from '06. I enjoy having birds at all stages of development, from which to choose.
YITS,
Cliff
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quickspin
130 posts
Nov 19, 2007
6:53 PM
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I have to breed early so I can have more birds to choose from. I only breeding out of 9 pairs so I can't breed to many fast. I don't think is a good Idea to breed early because many will develop bad habits if not flown when young.
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elopez
67 posts
Nov 19, 2007
7:43 PM
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Gary,
I'm not going to breed all year. I only have 6 pairs down and this is their last round. If I don't lose to many, I won't put them down till February. I am currently still flying and planning to keep flying unless it get really bad...
I breed open loft.
Efren
Last Edited by on Nov 19, 2007 7:46 PM
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luis
329 posts
Nov 19, 2007
7:55 PM
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Thanks for the feedback guys.I too breed a couple of pairs year round.I know it's hard on the birds because they don't molt properly,but its a must for me!I'm in the very early stages of developing my birds and it's been tough to say the least.As i have said before keeping rollers in So.Ca is a bit hard with the BOP problem.(Man i miss the 80's!!)I lost many birds this year and can't help but feel like progress will be very slow for me under the circumstances.
I love the beauty and majesty of the birds of prey,but they wreack havock on our sport.NO DOUBT!!
Efren i'm very close to you.When i have some free time,i would like to go check out your birds.You're more than welcome to see mine anytime.
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fhtfire
1181 posts
Nov 19, 2007
8:22 PM
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On BOP...why do people that get hit keep flying there birds...if you keep feeding the BOP..they will keep coming back. If you get hit..lock down for a couple of weeks and if you keep getting hit...lock down for longer.
If you were getting easy grub...wouldn't you keep coming back...I know that I would.
I know that some will say that you have to keep breeding so the young birds develop....but you still have young birds because you are feeding the hawks and they still take them.
I have not lost one bird in 3 months....why....if I get chased by a cooper...then I will lock down for a week....if i get chased again...then it is two weeks....I also change my fly times.....the coopers are real hungry in the morning.
One thing that I would like to give as some advice....is.....DO NOT FLY BEFORE A STORM OR AFTER>..the BOP know that a storm is coming and they will hunt in high gear...during the storm the birds will sit and get soaked and then when it clears up...they are hungry and aggressive....
You ring the dinner bell day after day..you are not helping.....and yes I do have coopers...but again...I have not lost one in months...
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Electric-man
876 posts
Nov 19, 2007
8:44 PM
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This has been my stratagy and it was worked great so far! Last year I kept flying and had them stay around all winter!
I have to fly late in the evenings and risk overflys though! Still lost somebirds here and there, but as long as I don't goof up on feeding, its not too bad!
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Val
"Site Moderator"
Last Edited by on Nov 19, 2007 8:49 PM
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PR_rollers
84 posts
Nov 19, 2007
8:52 PM
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I'm doing the same thing Paul is doing.i got hit in the Morning so now i flew in the evening and he got hip to that so i keep them in 2 days let out again, falcon is still around so i wait a week,, but what i do is feed them more so they have strengh to fly higher when they get hit I notice the falcon doesn't go chasing when they go up..and if they go far they have energy to make it back home...----------
Ralph....
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elopez
69 posts
Nov 19, 2007
10:25 PM
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Luis let me know when you're available and we can meet up to fly our birds...
I was at Hector's house on Sunday and as soon as he let his kit out the falcon was on his kit. Hopefully they'll leave us alone so we can enjoy our kits...
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ICEMAN710
41 posts
Nov 20, 2007
5:36 AM
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thanks for the response efren
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bigwilly
42 posts
Nov 20, 2007
5:55 AM
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I have 26 pairs down all year around. Have to make sure that I the numbers. BOP is bad in Cali
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Santandercol
1660 posts
Nov 20, 2007
6:26 AM
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Can't fly 'em in the winter so no sense breeding them.Most of my february hatch from last year were eaten by mr Coop.The best kit I have were hatched after that in late march and started to fly early may so had the best chance of survival.June-july hatch didn't have time to come into the roll before lockdown so we'll see how they turn outnext spring.My homers and Donek pairs are still pumping the young out but they are a different story as far as training and development goes and can be heldover winter with little or no detrimental affects.
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Kel.
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bman
500 posts
Nov 20, 2007
8:19 AM
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Question.......if you breed year round because of a BOP problem,how do you settle youngsters to fly during the fall and winter when the BOP's are at there worst ?
Or is the logic that you raise enough for both yourself and the preds ?
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Ron
Borderline lofts
Last Edited by on Nov 20, 2007 8:20 AM
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fhtfire
1182 posts
Nov 20, 2007
8:59 AM
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DON'T RAISE BIRDS FOR THE PREDS....I really do think that the problem with preds is also our own fault. We breed hundreds of birds to feed the preds...that is just plain stupid....We also let Cull kits out to feed the preds first.....all you are doing is telling the BOP to hang around. Animals are controled by two things....FOOD AND WATER....obviously we can't control the water...but we can control the food. If food moves the animals move. It is that simple.
I can't stand to hear people say...that I have lost 35 birds in a month or whatever....LOCK THEM DOWN...trust me the Raptors will move on.
I live in Cali too...and they are all over my neck of the woods and I rarely lose a bird....My development and teamwork has not suffered by locking down for long periods.
It is easy...if you have a lot of BOP...lock down for a month....then let out a kit...you may have to lock down longer...but once you break they cycle it is over....they will move on.....a loss here and there is normal...sometimes passer buys will get some lunch...It is no brain surgery guys.......We complain...but we are part of the problem.
If you live close to guys...who fly...make sure you are all on the same page....so the birds don't hang around because your buddy is feeding them....just try it and see what happens....
We are our own worst enemy.....keep feeding them cull kits and young birds...so they can be nice and strong and feed those healthy baby BOP so they can come to the dinner bell too...
Don't bitch if you are part of the problem.
Paul
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J_Star
1285 posts
Nov 20, 2007
9:03 AM
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Paul, I couldn't have said it any better.
Jay
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Skylineloft
389 posts
Nov 20, 2007
9:58 AM
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Paul,
What months do you shut down during the year ?
Also, you being a firefighter, with all the fires we had this year, do you think that the bop problem might be worse then before due to the fact that so many acres where burned here ?
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Ray
Breeding Quality Spinners,
"One Roller At A Time".
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bman
501 posts
Nov 20, 2007
10:11 AM
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Paul.......my point exactly!!!
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Ron
Borderline lofts
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fhtfire
1184 posts
Nov 20, 2007
10:28 AM
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I usually fly year around...I fly more during the summer. During the BOP migration...I do not shut down completely....it is all based on attacks....If I get attacked I shut down for three or 4 days.....if I get attacked again...I shut down for a week...and so on.....I also really look at the BOP...we look at birds all day so we should be able to look at a cooper and find some kind of sign on the bird that will tell us if it is the same bird attacking.....if it is...then shut down...if it is a passer by then I will shut down for a shorter period.
The fact of the matter is that you fly less during the winter anyway...so don't get all upset if you have to lock down for a while. Trust me it does not hurt the birds one bit...if they had the roll....the can get it again....
As for the young bird training....that is irrelevant...if you lock down when you get hit...the BOP will leave or be less intrusive...so you don't need to breed year around.
It is just a matter of having the balls to shut down....People saying that the birds won't develop as well with less fly time....HOG WASH!!!!!
Anyway....I fly pretty much all year....just lock down when you have to....and rotate fly times....and don't fly after days that BOP could not hunt because of winter..because when the weather gets good...they will have a knife fork and napkin around there neck...and the first place they are going is to the jack ass that keeps opening the feed tray.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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bman
502 posts
Nov 20, 2007
10:33 AM
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Paul, another point is aviary/suncages.I have stopped using them during the fall and winter. All they amount to is bait!! I am still flying while everyone I know is locked down.To date I have lost one bird to BOP.
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Ron
Borderline lofts
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fhtfire
1185 posts
Nov 20, 2007
10:34 AM
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As far as the wild fires.....of course it will NOT hurt the BOP because they are getting free food from us roller guys..lol..
Just kidding...The wild fires affect all animals....fires (when not lit by humans)start...it is actually mother natures way of cleaning up.....new trees grow...new grass...and the weak in the animal world don't make it...and the strong survive.
When things like this happen like the fires...man...that is when I would really lock down....because only the strong BOP will survive...so the BOP that are true hunters..not eating rollers......will survive and the BOP that are Rougue...will starve to death.....
Do you think that it is natural for Coopers to be in the inner CITY...HELL NO>...these are the crap BOP that get pushed out of the Wild by the strong BOP and then we keep feeding them.....most of those BOP would not make it in the wild....so they are pushed from the desert to the city for the easy pickings....because they lack the skill to hunt WILD birds.....and the offspring (nice healthy offspring from the high protein roller diet) will stay in the city because that is were they were hatched......
So again....we as pigeon fanciers are really messing up the ECO system by giving them easy food. LOCK DOWN>>> I know it is hard to do that becuause roller guys like to see there birds roll...but have some hair and lock down.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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luis
330 posts
Nov 20, 2007
10:37 AM
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Paul i understand exactly what you're saying but you have to realize that we all have very different circumstances.One of my problems is the Red tail.They are right next to my house all year long.I have seen as many as 3 pairs in the area,they live,eat and breed and hardly ever go away.I get perhaps a 2 day break after the 4th of july and then they're right back!
Coopers and Pergrine falcons make me suffer the biggest losses and the fact we have so many pigeon breeders in the area probably exacerbates the problem.I think it would be very difficult to get everyone on the same page as far as flying.
In regards to locking down, i do but perhaps i should do it for longer periods of time and see if it helps.I suppose i still have to decipline myself when it comes to locking down.It is very difficult for me to see the birds caged up for weeks on end.I guess that is a better alternative than seeing them get eaten by the preds.
Whatever the outcome,it's great to get info from everyone on the site and trying new things out.
Thank you all!
Last Edited by on Nov 20, 2007 6:06 PM
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CSRA
504 posts
Nov 20, 2007
12:57 PM
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Great post great responses good work guys
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maxspin
128 posts
Nov 20, 2007
1:47 PM
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Breeding out of season would entirely depend on your ability to fly year round.
I will be breeding less birds next year due the fact that I have not been able to fly out my last round for the past two years.
Instead of filling (3) boxes I will only fill (2), but be able to fly each kit of young birds more often.
My hope is to get them to the point that I can lock down in October .
Keith
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J_Star
1296 posts
Nov 20, 2007
6:35 PM
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To get to the number that you want with the shortest time breeding is to have more breeders or fosters. You will have 3 kit boxes full and still be able to fly all of them to the point you want them before locking down.
Jay
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