CSRA
522 posts
Nov 23, 2007
3:11 PM
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Is ther anyone out there who you would consider to be a modern day Pensom?
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RUDY..ZUPPPPP
534 posts
Nov 23, 2007
3:24 PM
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Monty Neible i herd he was a master on how to train and feed
the birds to its fullest.......
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hectorvicki2003@yaho
86 posts
Nov 23, 2007
4:49 PM
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I vote for Kenny Billings,
Im tired of pissing him off. LOL
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Hector Coya
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Donny James
128 posts
Nov 23, 2007
6:00 PM
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not to be bragging but i have a hall of fame'er call me pensom in his letter to me all the time donny james
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glenn
53 posts
Nov 23, 2007
6:30 PM
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THe one man that I know who can Fly & Breed Brimingham Rollers is Homer Coderre. A very humble man & one of the nicest people on the planet.
Glenn
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ezeedad
58 posts
Nov 23, 2007
9:08 PM
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I believe there will never be the equivalent of another Bill Pensom.
Reasons.. 1. He brought the original true Birmingham Rollers to the U. S. from their place of origin.
2. He explained the breed and wrote the bible of the breed, and in doing so made it easier for everyone else to have success with the breed.
3. He defined..or rather, brought focus, on what was the standard of the breed.
4. He probably had in his lofts the best stud of rollers ever to exist between the shores of the Atlantic and Pacific.
so..... I hope this doesn't offend anyone.. but he was like the "Jesus" of the breed... all anyone else ever can be is a disciple...
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1907 posts
Nov 23, 2007
9:09 PM
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AMEN!
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
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Mongrel Lofts
439 posts
Nov 23, 2007
9:22 PM
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Paul,
You are right on about Pensom! We have guys now, that claim men who cross breeds are Pensom's equal or better. Blasphemy!! The simple answer is... NO KGB
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gotspin7
583 posts
Nov 24, 2007
6:18 AM
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Good post Paul!
Question, who is then the diciple?LOL
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3757
286 posts
Nov 24, 2007
6:22 AM
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Bruce Cooper and Herb Sparkes. Both of these gentlemen are extremely knowledgably and knew Pensom intimately. They both breed to the standard. If Bill Pensom were alive I believe his Bill Pensom would have been Bill Richards as he stated. But, there will never be another Bill Pensom.
Gotspin there are many who are diciples of Bill's teaching and beliefs and practice the same including myself. Paul is one, Arnold Jackson, Bruce Cooper,Herb Sparkes,Bob Scott, etc.......
Last Edited by on Nov 24, 2007 1:04 PM
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
260 posts
Nov 24, 2007
6:33 AM
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CORNELL NORWOOD---MICHEAL CURTIS----BOB MAUNDER-- although there was conflict sometimes between each other. These men were a few of the smartest pigeon men I have ever met, they could READ a pigeon,TOTALLY
R-LUNA
Last Edited by on Nov 24, 2007 8:31 PM
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RUDY..ZUPPPPP
545 posts
Nov 24, 2007
6:50 AM
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How about richard jaconette???
for u all guys that ever met him ??
How was his philosophy ?
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ezeedad
63 posts
Nov 24, 2007
10:06 AM
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Tony, I've been meaning to tell you that this is a great site. The edit/delete feature is a really good thing too.
Kenny, Glad to see that we have the same respect for Pensom.
I just don't want to be included in the group that you are always attacking because of my interest in muffs and because I have the qualmond gene in my family.
Laron, I wish I knew more about Herb Sparkes. I only heard one side of the story that you were refering to.
Yes, Pensom has made many disciples.. Good to see that you think of me as one. The comments of those that actually know you are the only really meaningful comments. This goes right to the heart of what you were saying in your "Hearsay" post.
Richard, You know I have to agree with you about Cornell..
I have nothing but respect for his dedication and knowledge of the breed.. I learned more from him than from any other person other than Pensom (By way of reading his book and flying birds that he had bred).
Last Edited by on Nov 25, 2007 3:24 PM
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8ball
9 posts
Nov 24, 2007
10:39 AM
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1 must have the passion 1st. not sometimes but its in the heart it never leaves. pensom ate slept and lived these birds.and made it possible with books for us to understand.its deeper then the bird it self. he was a pioneer that witnessed these birds through out the world. Richard Luna and Norwood are my modern day pensom but i dont even think they are crusaders through out the World but in Southern Cal they R legends when it comes to true spin! PENSOM IS IN A CLASS BY HIS SELF !
Last Edited by on Nov 24, 2007 10:41 AM
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3757
288 posts
Nov 24, 2007
12:48 PM
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Paul - Thanks for your response. I hope all is well with you and the birds. We must keep the dicipleship going!
Last Edited by on Nov 24, 2007 1:04 PM
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Deadendkid
100 posts
Nov 24, 2007
5:22 PM
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what about jerry the king higgins
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Skylineloft
421 posts
Nov 24, 2007
5:29 PM
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Good one Kid,
You will also find Reed blood throughout this county and the world if you look for it. Many successful flyers today have that in there birds.
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Ray
Breeding Quality Spinners,
"One Roller At A Time".
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bigwilly
72 posts
Nov 24, 2007
8:26 PM
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Hey Paul, you have some sharp writting skills
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Mongrel Lofts
444 posts
Nov 24, 2007
9:39 PM
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Speed,
Did you just say the MAUNDER MAN is one of the guys you would consider as great as Mr Pensom? Now that there is funny, I don't care who you are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL How is Maunder man doing these days? Bobby the Maunder Man Pensom! Darn that is funny!! LOL KGB
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
265 posts
Nov 25, 2007
5:58 AM
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kgb-- I dont give a crap who you are either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Yes I said Bob, yes I know he is a JERK!! arogant,immature, and so on like--(huhm-huhmm),I wonder who that could be,now that's FUNNY. (me) As a man and in all HONESTY, I have to give credit and fault to where it is due, he is a knowledgeable man in rollers, I know he did'nt contribute in the BR world like the LEDGEND(Bill)but he knows how to read a bird and I believe like BIll. AS for how he is doing I dont know ,I dont asscociate with him and I haven't for a long time
R-LUNA
Last Edited by on Nov 25, 2007 8:23 AM
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gotspin7
593 posts
Nov 25, 2007
6:11 AM
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Richard, I will have to agree with you about Bobby, he is arrogant and everything else but a bag of chips!LOL!! He is a very knowledgeable guy! I purchased a lot of birds from him in 98-99!LOL!
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
266 posts
Nov 25, 2007
6:13 AM
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Gotspin7 ,what birds did you get from him and do you still have them.
R-LUNA
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gotspin7
594 posts
Nov 25, 2007
6:31 AM
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I purchased some of 272, Dummy and I beleive he had some old Norwood blood as well, I purchased a couple of babies from this old slate cock he had that was a champ in the air, I purchased a couple of kits and about 8 pair of breeders! Bob had some fast ones! Richard I do not have them anymore!
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Steve_uk
276 posts
Nov 25, 2007
8:04 AM
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Cant see why people still bang on about pensom.
Steve0...
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CSRA
546 posts
Nov 25, 2007
8:09 AM
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I agree with Richard L.
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pacos bill
28 posts
Nov 25, 2007
8:33 AM
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Hey guys in this sport their is only one Bill Pensom, and as said in a post before this he laid the foundation for the Birmingham Roller, none alive today can even come close to that claim.
However we have a new lot of great breeders, and they may well have improved the breed and I think Pensom would agree.
Breeders such Reed, Higgins, Jaconet, Luna, P Platts for his whites, Scott, or Tony’s line.
Who can make his claim to fame as the new Pensom? In my opinion None, if only because he was the first to bring the Birmingham roller to light.
But let us not forget all of these breeders blood lines will most likely stem back to Pensom, or off shoots of the Pensom Imports sent to Smith or to Plona thru Smith, these are the guys that molded the path for us.
Yes we have our greats and I am sorry if I missed some in my list this is just off the top of my head.
A BILL PENSOM none of US will ever be but the birmingham roller's greatest breeder of all time's, is always up for Grab's. Pacos Bill
Last Edited by on Nov 25, 2007 9:02 AM
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
268 posts
Nov 25, 2007
8:43 AM
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8BALL, thanks for the compliment, but I can't except the comparison about, or with Pensom, altho a mentor I could.
R-LUNA
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axelrod
3 posts
Dec 21, 2007
8:42 AM
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I would have to say that Cornell Norwood was the most knowledgeable person I ever met in pigeons. He was the only man I ever saw walk into a persons loft and pick out their best birds and be on the money. If he matched a pair for you, you were fortunate.
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Missouri-Flyer
1129 posts
Dec 21, 2007
9:17 AM
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Axel, you have a name?..always nice to know who is sharing info.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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hectorvicki2003@yaho
135 posts
Dec 21, 2007
9:49 AM
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I have to say,the late Bob Scott.
If you had a chance to meet him you whould know why i say this,He eather liked you and whould open up and answer any question you had,or he whould tell you to gat the hell out of his house.
I remember taking a few beginners to his house one day,he flew a kit of blue bars and blue check, these birds where rolling their ass off.one guy i brought asked if he had any other color for sale,Bob freaked out and started yelling at this guy to get the hell out of his house.Bob didnt care about color he whould just put up the best birds anybody ever saw.
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Hector Coya
Last Edited by on Dec 21, 2007 9:50 AM
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RUDY..ZUPPPPP
742 posts
Dec 21, 2007
12:22 PM
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YYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW...
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RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
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axelrod
4 posts
Dec 22, 2007
5:11 AM
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I was just a little kid who tagged along with my dad years ago. But if you listened to Cornell when he wasn't busy bullshitting you could learn a few things. He gave me one of the best pairs I ever had and was always nice to me.
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gotspin7
894 posts
Dec 22, 2007
6:04 AM
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Axelrod, Welcome to the site! Axel can you tell us who you are?
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Sal Ortiz
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axelrod
5 posts
Dec 22, 2007
6:31 AM
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Well, a few of you in SoCal may remember my dad, Gary Morris. I was the kid who took the credit for the birds. heh My name is Darrell
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RUDY..ZUPPPPP
755 posts
Dec 22, 2007
6:34 AM
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Zuppppp Darrel welcome.............
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RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
323 posts
Dec 22, 2007
6:37 AM
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DARELL whats going on GOOD to see you here and you kept up with the birds. Hey man hows your dad, I hope that everthing is alright. Gary was one person that I enjoyed his company and talking about birds.Tell him I said WHAT UP.
R-LUNA
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CSRA
871 posts
Dec 22, 2007
7:36 AM
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So Pensom was Mr. Untouchable no one today even comes close to the understanding of the birds today or was he the first to put his writings on paper to give us a major stepping stone for the fanciers today to learn and understand todays rollers
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ezeedad
182 posts
Dec 22, 2007
9:58 AM
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Steve,
Sounds like you are suggesting that todays rollers are different from rollers in the past. If you are, I would have to agree. Birds have to be flown differently than they were in the past, when we could fly year round, trouble free. But there is NOBODY that compares to what Pensom did... Forget it..!! That's an impossible task.
Some guys may be able to compare to him in certain ways..but overall...Forget it..!!
Cornell would have been the first to tell you the same thing too, and he was, like Axel and others have said, SURELY one of the most knowledgable rollermen out there.
Last Edited by on Dec 22, 2007 10:07 AM
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CSRA
877 posts
Dec 22, 2007
10:03 AM
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Paul thanks for your comment very good job
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CSRA
878 posts
Dec 22, 2007
10:06 AM
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I was hoping i would get more responses maybe later
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classicpony
624 posts
Dec 22, 2007
9:49 PM
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My vote goes to Tony or Nick.
Jim
Illinois
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gotspin7
922 posts
Dec 23, 2007
5:32 AM
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Welcome to the site MG choclate lofts.
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Sal Ortiz
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RUDY..ZUPPPPP
767 posts
Dec 23, 2007
5:43 AM
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WELCOME MGS LOFT
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RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
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8ball
12 posts
Dec 23, 2007
5:03 PM
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MGS lofts welcome hot chocolate is poetry in motion
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COYOTE33
29 posts
Dec 27, 2007
9:48 PM
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HEY! GUYS DONT FORGET ABOUT DICK STEPHENS
I JUST TALKED TO HIS WIFE THE OTHER DAY AND SHE TOLD ME HOW HER AND DICK WOULD SPEND TIME WITH BILL AND DORIS AND DICK WOULD PICK PENSOM BRAIN, HE WAS A STUDENT OF BILL.
IM NOT SAYING THAT HE WAS A MODREN DAY PENSOM,JUST LIKE THERE IS NO MODERN DAY JORDAN, BUT GIVE THE MAN SOME CREDIT, HE WAS A MASTER OF THE HOBBY AND IS ONE OF THE LAST OF THE GREATS
COYOTE
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CSRA
1006 posts
Dec 28, 2007
7:18 AM
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What does it take to even be near Pensom and his work
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glenn
76 posts
Dec 28, 2007
10:21 AM
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Patience,KEEN OBSERVATION & Work
Glenn
Last Edited by on Dec 28, 2007 11:37 AM
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W@yne
853 posts
Dec 28, 2007
10:27 AM
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Probably no one can take Pensoms place but modern day there's flyers who will give the new fanciers just as much information as Pensom did back in them good ole days.
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Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
=====================================
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ezeedad
213 posts
Dec 28, 2007
11:01 AM
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Wayne,
It's good to see you on the roller page... from the place of origin of the breed..
The tradition there must run much deeper than it does here..
I learned from Pensom's writings that there were breeders there that he was in awe of...
The concept of evolution was drawn from experiences of breeders there in England..
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3757
426 posts
Dec 28, 2007
2:34 PM
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All of the things mentioned so far are great but we must have overlooked the reason why Bill Pensom was who he was and that was due to his characteristics and values as well as his knowledge of the Black Country Rollers known in America as Pensom’s. First, he was a man who wanted others to have the same level of quality that he had. He was unselfish and he did not boast. He would explain and guide but did not feel that he was the god of rollers and that everyone else had garbage. He would help the newbie as well as the old timer that may have gotten their birds stolen or for whatever reason had to get more birds from him and you never heard him mention it again. He wanted others to understand the standard as was taught to him in the Black Country. He was a man of honor and respect. He bred for the individual rare champion and always had good things to say about others. He always gave credit to the ancestors as Bill Richards, Harry Bellfield, Jim Skidmore and Harry Young who he received birds from. 30 years after Bill Richards’s death he still referred to some of his lines as the Richards line. He had birds that Henry Lopez bred off of two of Bill pigeons and he always would tell people who actually bred the bird with no shame or falsehood. These are the characteristics that I love and try to follow as well as the concepts of Bill Pensom. Others as Herb Sparkes, Bruce Cooper, John Walters, Bill Patrick and many more continued to practice these concepts. These are the true ideals that many do not have today. There will never be another Bill Pensom but he does have many followers and disciples that continue his work.
Some have bred great birds down from Bill Pensom's strain but never practiced the above. I have known fanciers that had great birds but bashed everyone else’s stock even the very people who they acquired birds from! Those individuals, in my opinion, were not true followers of Bill Pensom.
Last Edited by on Dec 28, 2007 3:15 PM
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