ezeedad
99 posts
Nov 29, 2007
7:51 PM
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I was wondering how many people have bred 7/8 matings. I've only done it a couple of times, but it seems that when I did I produced some very good birds.
One bird some guys call the 7/8 cock has been a prepotent producer of hard spin as well as a star in the air.
I bred the 8899/Heartattack blood I had 7/8 and produced one with amazing speed and style. I thought it rolled like a machine.
P Gomez
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
285 posts
Nov 29, 2007
8:29 PM
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Paul I tried it with the #544/#1344 &# 23-all NL line, nice type and frequent workers and you are right good producers. I also tried double brother sister mating, same line , they were still good workers but they became to small for me.
R-LUNA
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Santandercol
1709 posts
Nov 29, 2007
10:43 PM
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Paul,
Can you explain what is meant by 7/8 matings.?There are so many terms in pigeon talk I don't have a grasp on including the colours and what each colour term actually looks like.
Appreciate it.
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Kel.
Rum-30 Lofts
Last Edited by on Nov 29, 2007 10:43 PM
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ezeedad
100 posts
Nov 30, 2007
11:25 AM
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Hey Richard.. How it goin".?..
The more I look at my success in producing quality the more I realize that the few times I've really jammed to the 7/8 level, I got a higher percentage of birds that were outstanding.
Kel,
When a bird is bred to another unrelated bird the babies are 1/2 of the father, say, genetically.. They have half of his genes.
When a father is bred to his daughter, the offspring are 3/4 of the father genetically... Three quarters of their genes will have come from the father.
Then when that 3/4 daughter is bred back to the father again, their offspring will be 7/8 of the father.
Gomez
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elopez
89 posts
Nov 30, 2007
11:36 AM
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Hello Paul,
This is interesting. On the 7/8 birds that you have breed have they performed and breed better then the father or just as good? Did you get any deformed ones because of the close inbreeding?
There a few birds that I would love to try this on...
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
Last Edited by on Nov 30, 2007 11:38 AM
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3757
345 posts
Nov 30, 2007
11:37 AM
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Paul – Many of the young guys may not know it but Bill Pensom did a lot of inbreeding and a lot of ¾ matings as well as full brother and sister matings. Some examples are as follows: PRC-53-514 mated to her son PRC-56-145, PRC-60-119 mated to his mother PRC-53-514, PRC-58-272 mated to her son PRC-58-1360, PRC-55-7061 mated to his daughter PRC-58-255 etc. There were many more which shows his partiality towards inbreeding his strain.
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ezeedad
102 posts
Nov 30, 2007
12:41 PM
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Efren,
I"d have to say that the 7/8 cock I bred must have been a much better breeder, based on the results I have heard about and seen.. I sold him as a squeaker.
As far as deformed birds I've never gotten any, but some of them looked weak or off type. I think that the success I had far outweighed any inferior results I might have made.
When you jam birds like that you have the tendency of "uncovering" bad genes, but you also can purify the good genes.. That's why that bird was such a good producer.
Laron,
Interesting to see how Pensom bred those birds 3/4..especially knowing what a high regard that he had developed for 514.
Do you have any evidence of Pensom going 7/8..?? Looking through the records can be really tedious..That's why I made the family chart of my birds, because it's easier to see what you've done.
Thanks, Paul
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3757
346 posts
Nov 30, 2007
12:58 PM
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Paul - He did. Bill took a 3/4 cock off of (PRC-53-514) which was PRC-57-7001 and bred it to a hen (PRC-64-5585) that was off of 514 and a son of 145 to produce NBRC-68-1233 and NBRC-68-1116. So, you can see that he did inbred intensely. Now, remember the birds that were behind these birds from Skidmore and Richards were also highly inbred. I really like the 1116 blood.
LaRon
Last Edited by on Nov 30, 2007 12:59 PM
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elopez
92 posts
Nov 30, 2007
1:09 PM
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Thanks for the info Paul.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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ezeedad
105 posts
Nov 30, 2007
3:12 PM
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LaRon,
That is really great information. Pensom even went 7/8 using 514... WOW..! He would be using his own advice of breeding best to best regardless of relationship. And the fact that Skidmore and Richards did the same really shows how this breed was created and improved.
Thanks a lot... Paul
Last Edited by on Nov 30, 2007 6:04 PM
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J_Star
1373 posts
Nov 30, 2007
5:43 PM
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Paul, I always believe that breeding best to best is for the average Joe and for the average birds which in science it is called outbreeding. However, inbreeding is for the experienced and for the Joe who wants to move his stock forward many times over. I have written articles about inbreeding, linebreeding, outbreeding and outcrossing. You will find them in the reading room. Please take a look and tell me your take on those subjects. Thanks.
Jay
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ezeedad
106 posts
Nov 30, 2007
6:06 PM
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JStar,
I'd be very interested In seeing those writings. I suppose you mean that they're here in this site.
Thanks, Paul
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
291 posts
Nov 30, 2007
7:01 PM
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Paul correct me if I'am wrong but didn't the 514 line get stiff from Pensom inbreeding to much and brought in the #224 line to cross it in.
Glenn you may know about this??
R-LUNA
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Electric-man
909 posts
Nov 30, 2007
7:13 PM
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Paul,if you haven't found the "reading room", go back to the main page, look right below the advertisements for RPDC's gift certificates that are scrolling across the page and you should see four headings. One of them say "reading room", click on it! Great information in there!
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Val
"Site Moderator"
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Santandercol
1710 posts
Nov 30, 2007
7:55 PM
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Gracias Papi.----------
Kel.
Rum-30 Lofts
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smoke747
34 posts
Nov 30, 2007
8:24 PM
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paul, would say that,by inbreeding that close the undesireable traits show themselves more readily, making it easier to cull the bad ones?
and lock in on the good ones!!
Last Edited by on Nov 30, 2007 8:26 PM
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ezeedad
107 posts
Nov 30, 2007
10:15 PM
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Richard,
That's what I heard about the 514 family in general. I suppose the control came took over in a lot of them instead of the roll.. Maybe they were too "valuable" to discard. Lots of people would pay for that blood. But I wouldn't take that example as a reason not to breed closely.
LaRon,,, I was wrong when I said that example was a 7/8 mating. I read more closely just now.. But it was good and close allright.. Thanks again
Val,
Thank you for your help in making the site easier to use.
Smoke,
Absolutely right. inbreeding brings bad genes to the forefront and it becomes easier to cull those genes out. At least this will increase the frequency of the good genes.
You must be a knowledgeable roller breeder..
P. S. I know who you are... Keith..!! What's up...!!
Gomez
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smoke747
39 posts
Nov 30, 2007
10:18 PM
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I'm still a student of the roll. thanx Paul
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