Double R
172 posts
Dec 05, 2007
4:57 AM
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Paul,
Good post! I enjoy reading anything I can about Roller history. I agree that they have to roll with their eyes open. I had a little hen that looked like she was going to roll down on top of the house, but 3ft. from the top of the house she opened her wings, stuck out her legs and land smooth and easy. If her eyes had been closed she would have been history. If their eyes were closed they wouldn't be able to snap out of the roll in the same direction as the kit for a quick return.
Robby
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PR_rollers
185 posts
Dec 05, 2007
5:48 AM
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Paul THanks I enjoyed that post early this morning,now i can go out and fly my birds with my eyes fully open too ,,lol..,,
and that post proves once again what i always said about the true Birmingham roller,,,
The Birmingham Roller.. It can do what any other bird can do and them some..i
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Ralph....
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3757
370 posts
Dec 05, 2007
5:48 AM
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Paul - This is excellent history.
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J_Star
1388 posts
Dec 05, 2007
6:28 AM
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Paul,
Thanks for sharing this with us. But what does this tell me!! What I get from it is today’s rollers are not any better than the year of 1875. What he described is allot better than what is in many lofts today. Also what it tells me is that Mr. Pensom really did not add any thing new that was not already known back in 1875. Which validates my belief is that he wrote his book for only personal economic value.
Jay
Last Edited by on Dec 05, 2007 6:29 AM
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spinner jim
203 posts
Dec 05, 2007
6:38 AM
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Paul,i have this book in my possession,ive had it for 30 years and its really interesting,you can allways find new information to read in it,thanks for posting,jim uk
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
310 posts
Dec 05, 2007
7:01 AM
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GRACIAS Senor PABLO GOMEZ por todo.
R-LUNA
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ezeedad
128 posts
Dec 05, 2007
9:30 AM
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Double R, PR, LaRon,
Glad you enjoyed.
JStar,
Right you are. There seem to have birds even back then that were as good as any you will find today. He describes them showing the hole (like a ring), and the faster ones rolling like a ball...
But as far as Pensom is concerned, I think that he wrote the book just as he explained in it, that it made it easier for others to learn the breed, and he must have been getting really tired having to explain the same things over and over agian... The hobby really needed a guide to understanding the breed.
Spinner J,
Would you be able to share some interesting information from that book with us?
De nada mi amigo Ricardo. Me alegro.
Gomez
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spinner jim
204 posts
Dec 05, 2007
10:55 AM
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Yes,if you have something you need to know from this book ,fire away and i will do my best to find it or if i can will post the page on here if its ok with tony, jim uk.
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J_Star
1389 posts
Dec 05, 2007
11:37 AM
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Paul,
But remember that Pensom was not the first to write a book about this breed in his time. I think he was number 3 or 4 on the list. But yet people take his book as gospel. I think because they are following the band wagon.
Jay
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3757
371 posts
Dec 05, 2007
12:06 PM
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Pensom has done more than any other person in recent history to increase the popularity of the Birmingham roller here in the United States and abroad. It is like dishonoring the founders of our country in my opinion he deserves all of the respect that he has gotten. As for his monetary gain he was not wealthy at all when he died and his book had more details for the novice than the previous books written prior to 1958.
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J_Star
1391 posts
Dec 05, 2007
12:36 PM
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No disrespect to Pensom here. But I find “the Spinning Rollers “by David Kowalski is more informative and comprehensive than the “The Birmingham Roller Pigeon” by Bill Pensom. I understand what he did to bring the hobby about in the USA is commendable but to put him in a place like the founders of this country is more to the extreme side. From earlier posts that were posted by our English friends here on this site, Pensom is not in their roller vocabulary.
Jay
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ezeedad
131 posts
Dec 05, 2007
12:54 PM
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Jim,
I wouldn't know what to suggest, having never seen the book. I just thought you might come up with something...
Could you tell me the complete title and author? I may be able to find it, but I dadn't save the page.
Thanks, Paul
JStar, I don't take Pensoms' book as gospel, although I do admit I have many times called it the Bible of the breed. there are parts of it that I don't agree with. However there are other parts that I wish I had followed more closely, especially ragarding style (the hole), and inbreeding which i should have done more of earlier on.
I agree with LaRon and many others who recognize the greatness of his contribution to the hobby... I would suspect that your birds go back to Pensoms'.
By the way, what other earlier books were written prior to Pensoms'? Which would you suggest? I'd like to see if I can get some of them.
Also I saw your articles, and I agree with most of what you wrote about inbreeding.. I am also considering using diatomaceous earth, but I'm concerned about silicosis. I used to be a potter.. and that fine silica dust can couse respiratory problems.
Paul
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Ballrollers
987 posts
Dec 05, 2007
1:12 PM
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I know that it has been said before, but what makes Pensom's writings so hard for most roller men to comprehend is that he was a prolific writer. And as he matured and gained more experience with these birds, he changed his position, sometimes reversing it. That is a credit to the man, but as he developed new philosophies, he did not explain the reversal or that new observations were replacing old ones...so depending on what you are reading today, you might read just the opposite tomorrow.
Cliff
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3757
372 posts
Dec 05, 2007
1:32 PM
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J Star - I will agree with you on the note that Kowalski's book is better in the sense that it is more understandable than Bill Pensom's book for the novice. This is true and I have said this to my close friends as well. I will note that Bill Pensom was in the vocabulary of his friend's Bill Barratt, Ollie Harris, Tom Brown of Scotland, Wilf Portman and Bert Goode. As far as today you may be correct.
Cliff - You are 100 percent correct. Bill Pensom did change his views on many things through his career in rollers and I believe that if he would have lived 20 more years he would have changed even more. That is a great observation Cliff.
Last Edited by on Dec 05, 2007 1:35 PM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1963 posts
Dec 05, 2007
2:03 PM
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If the book is the original and dated back in the 1800's, it is in the public domain and you can quote it as much as you want. Tell us more!
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
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Roll Down
12 posts
Dec 05, 2007
2:13 PM
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To 3757 Re: Pensom
AMEN!
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ezeedad
132 posts
Dec 05, 2007
4:41 PM
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Tony,
Actually the first 4 1/2 lines or so were not the original 1875 quote. They were taken from the more recent book that Spinner J was talking about. I cut and pasted from that book that had the old quote in it. Any problem? I will edit the beginning if you wish.
Gomez
Last Edited by on Dec 05, 2007 4:46 PM
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Donny James
162 posts
Dec 05, 2007
7:23 PM
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hay paul, thank for the info i really like info like that thanks again .............donny james
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1970 posts
Dec 05, 2007
8:22 PM
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Hey dad, there is something called "fair use" and that allows you to quote portions of a document to bring to light information or to support a position, etc.
Wholesale copying and pasting a copyrighted document for consumption by others can be and is considered copyright infringement and can land you/me in hot water.
If you can provide your own analysis of what you quoted and remove quotes and content that are not salient to your point, then I think we would be okay.
However, a document in the public domain can be used anyway you want for the most part. If it is 75 years old or older, I think the copyright has run out.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
Last Edited by on Dec 05, 2007 8:23 PM
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CSRA
675 posts
Dec 06, 2007
2:44 AM
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Thanks Paul for sharing good work
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Hector Coya
466 posts
Apr 15, 2009
5:50 PM
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Nice article ,Paul.
Hector Coya-SGVS
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The more i know mankind,the more i love my Dog,
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toronto15
157 posts
Apr 15, 2009
6:20 PM
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Hector,thanks for bringing this post up,it sheds some light.Glen.
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DeepSpinLofts
1364 posts
Apr 15, 2009
6:41 PM
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Yess indeed Paul... a very good article to read.
MEMO: There are things that are known, and things that are unknown. In between there are doors which open us to intellectual enlightment.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2853 posts
Apr 15, 2009
6:52 PM
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The Rollers gradually rise to a compact body, now flying in a uniform and regular manner steadily rising as they go, and at every turn of about 3 minutes interval the whole lot will "go off", as it were, simultaneously, like a sudden burst of fireworks, every bird passing through his evolutions clearly and well, and on the completion and recovery from each of these aerial circumgyrations the disordered flight speedily reunite.
Paul is this part from the 1875,I thought back then they was just more individual birds rolling not in concert.....interesting..
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Ralph.
The greatest use of your life is so you live your life so that the use of your life will outlive your life, In other words what you going to leave behind legacy or Dust....
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macsrollers
45 posts
Apr 15, 2009
8:59 PM
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Thanks for sharing history with us Paul. Wouldn't it be great to be able to go back in time and watch kits perform in those days and compare them to ours! I also agree that Kolowski's book is more comprehensive to Pensom's in some aspects and it should be. He had much more resources to tap into the Mr. Pensom did at the time he wrote his book. People love Pensom's book because I think it was the most comprehensive roller book at the time. When is the last time you went back and read Mr. Pensom's book from cover to cover intensly. I find that each time I do that it becomes more and more understandable and comprehensive as I gain knowledge and experience with rollers. Things that several years ago and even a year ago that didn't connect with me when I read his book now connect with me when I revisit his writings. For the resources at the time the book was written and Mr. Pensom's ability to put his learnings in writing, his book is one of the most comprehensive writings on rollers when factoring in those aspects. Enjoy reading about rollers from all resources !
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Spin City USA
208 posts
Apr 15, 2009
9:45 PM
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Paul,thanks for the history lesson. I am in the process of reading your new book,"Roller Dreams and Realities". I did not know YOU were such a writer. Lots of good stories and info. A very unique and different kind of roller book. I am really enjoying it.
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They gotta Spin to win.....Jay
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ezeedad
947 posts
Apr 15, 2009
9:48 PM
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Mac...Is this Don?,
When I read the descriptions it seems pretty clear that there were rollers back then at least as good as what we have today. It also looks like there was a lot more variety in types of performance too.
I refer to Pensoms book from time to time still.. and I have to agree with you that the book was written on a level which challenges and teaches regardless of how much experience the reader has in rollers. I have to admit that I haven't read Kowolski's book. You are the second person today who told me that it is a good book... so I'm going to try to get it.
Paul G
Last Edited by on Apr 15, 2009 9:52 PM
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3391 posts
Apr 16, 2009
7:19 AM
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Paul,
I enjoyed the read. Thanks for putting it on.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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ezeedad
949 posts
Apr 16, 2009
8:14 PM
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Your welcome Nick,
Actually I posted it so long ago that I had forgotten it. It was nice to read it again myself... So thanks to Don.
Paul G
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macsrollers
46 posts
Apr 16, 2009
9:01 PM
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Hi Paul. If you want to borrow my copy of Kowolski's book send me your address. Then you can see if it is something you want to have for your own. That is up to you but you are more then welcome. I am reading your book and enjoy the different aspects you present.
Don M. Mac's Rollers
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ezeedad
953 posts
Apr 17, 2009
8:14 PM
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Thanks a lot Don. I really appreciate your offer, and I may take you up on it if I can't locate a copy. So I'll keep it in mind.
I'm glad you're enjoying my book, and I appreciate the feedback.
Paul
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Scott
2050 posts
Apr 18, 2009
12:21 PM
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I agree, that was a good read !
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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