Drama Side
18 posts
Dec 07, 2007
9:45 AM
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Some say almonds, opals, yellows; etc. can't perform like blue checks, red checks; etc. They say the same thing about muffs. I know some guys say they hate muffs because they can't roll like clean leg birds. I want to know if you got rare colors and muffs. How do they compare to your other birds. If you don't have rare colors and muffs. Why and how do you feel about it?
Last Edited by on Dec 07, 2007 9:46 AM
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CSRA
699 posts
Dec 07, 2007
9:51 AM
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I have seen some very good yellows almonds adulusion and muffs there are some very good birds of color out there i have seen it
Last Edited by on Dec 07, 2007 10:07 AM
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pat66
55 posts
Dec 07, 2007
9:56 AM
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I had both and it might be a coinsidense but the muffs I have from 3757 roll as good if not better than any line I have had in the past 6 years,I really do not think the muff is in question here,I think it has most to do with loft management,feed and having the line that fits the manager,culling and selection of breeders.
PAT
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smoke747
108 posts
Dec 07, 2007
9:57 AM
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DRAMA,
I HAVE BRED SOME MUFFS THAT ROLL/SPIN WITH ANY CLEAN LEG BIRD. I JUST DON'T BREED FOR THEM IF ONE COMES OUT SOME HOW THAT OK BUT SOME CHOOSE THEM BECAUSE THET ARE MUFFED.
I DON'T KNOCK COLORED BIRDS AS LONG AS THEY CAN PERFORM AS GOOD AS A CLEAN LEG. I BRED MANY YELLOWS THAT CAN SPIN LIKE CHECKERS. THE PROBLEM COMES WHEN YOU SET JUST TO BREED FOR THESE COLORS BY USING THESE COLORS ONLY. MY BEST YELLOWS CAME FROM PAIRS IN WHICH NEITHER WAS A YELLOW,ALL DILUTE AND YELLOWS WERE HENS FROM THESE MATINGS.
MY SMOKE FAMILY STARTED WITH A YELLOW.
SMOKE747
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CSRA
703 posts
Dec 07, 2007
10:11 AM
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Drama Passed it Keith caught it touchdown lol
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J_Star
1432 posts
Dec 07, 2007
12:53 PM
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We are not going to beat this dead hourse one more time!! Are We?
Jay
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Drama Side
19 posts
Dec 07, 2007
1:15 PM
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Jay I'm new to this site and I didn't know this topic was brought up. I don't think nothing is wrong with talking about it again. I'm pretty sure you talk about alot of this topics a million of times Jay come on your a birdman right.
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W@yne
805 posts
Dec 07, 2007
1:22 PM
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Sounds like de ja vu
J star your right
End of chat
Amen.
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Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
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CSRA
705 posts
Dec 07, 2007
2:08 PM
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J and Wayne go easy he is new and we have to be there for someone who is new to the site
thanks guys
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J_Star
1435 posts
Dec 07, 2007
3:14 PM
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Drama, nothing personal here. But everytime this color subject pops up, trouble starts. We discussed it and discussed it some more but at the end we have people with hurt feelings everytime.
Just to warn you, when KGB finds this thread and respond, do yourself a favor -----> duck under a peice of sturdy furniture(lol). My bad...
Jay
Last Edited by on Dec 07, 2007 3:36 PM
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CSRA
706 posts
Dec 07, 2007
4:03 PM
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J Star good looking lol
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Mongrel Lofts
470 posts
Dec 07, 2007
6:34 PM
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Hi Jay,
You really made me laugh with that one! LOL I'm all for Mongrel colored birds with crest and HUGE muffs! I have been trying to talk all the guys I compete with in my local area into filling their lofts with them mutts for years! I haven't got one to go for it yet, they all want the best the breed has to offer. Maybe if we could get some black's with with white checs, With 6 inch muffs, A tall round crest, both on the back and front! WOW what a Birmingham roller and maybe I could get all my local guys to fly them in the WC or FF.. Boy my life wouls sure get eaiser!! LOL Are you happy now Jay? LOL KGB
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J_Star
1443 posts
Dec 07, 2007
6:51 PM
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As long as you're happy KGB. I thought you will get a good laugh on that one!!! How is you new house going! When are you moving in!!
Jay
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Mongrel Lofts
471 posts
Dec 07, 2007
8:14 PM
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Hey Jay,
We close Monday and they say it should be ours by Wed.. The guy that owned the house lives in Brazil, so we have to sign, then they fax the paper to him and he signs and over nights them back.. The title company says they have to have his wet signature.. I was hoping to be moving in Monday.. It's still a nail biter!!! LOL KGB
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3757
386 posts
Dec 08, 2007
6:15 AM
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The Pensom lines that were muffed or booted, especially the Smith birds, have always had the gene in abundance and can be traced back to around 1914. They were never bred out and remained just as the original Birmingham’s were (Muffed or groused). People actually changed the birds to breed towards clean leg birds. Look at any Birmingham’s that go back to Pensom, Smith or Plona and you will find some muffed or groused legged birds.
Last Edited by on Dec 08, 2007 6:18 AM
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Mongrel Lofts
473 posts
Dec 08, 2007
8:35 AM
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Laron,
I agree that the Pensom birds have both muff and grouse in them.. I have had many Smith birds over the years. I have some grouse and muffed birds now. Smith Tended to like the muffed birds and its hard to find Smith birds that don't have at least grouse. I have some grouse and muff's here but some of the one's being shown have muff's almost like an English trumpeter. Guys are breeding for Huge unnatural muffs that are a hindrance to performance. Go look in last of the greats or any of the old pictures and find me one with muffs like we are seeing on here or out in some lofts today. Paul posted a hen a year or two back that must have had at least 5 inch muffs. There is a difference in muff's and grouse being in the Pensom birds and breeding for un-Birmingham like extreme long muffs.. Some guys seam to just like to breed towards the oddity's within the breed or cross breed to get an oddity and expect us all to believe it is the same as the Birmingham roller, Just freaky! I agree with you Laron about the Grouse and Muff's. I disagree those birds were muffed like West of England's and even English trumpeters the way some of the ones we are seeing these days are.. Just my honest opinion Laron.. KGB
Last Edited by on Dec 08, 2007 8:46 AM
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Missouri-Flyer
1084 posts
Dec 08, 2007
8:56 AM
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Kenny,
If you breed muffed to muffed, especially if your breeding muffed sibling to muffed parent, then that would give you a longer,more muffed bird, correct?..I know the answer is yes, because I have done so the past 3 years, and know the results.
With that being said, you dont have to bring in a breed other than the BR to get HUGE muffs!..Those birds you are referring to COULD be as pure an OLD STYLE BR as any you have seen.
Just my .03
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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hectorvicki2003@yaho
110 posts
Dec 08, 2007
9:43 AM
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Ive had this family for many years ,this hen came from a brother/sister mating,and she is bred to her brother.
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Hector Coya
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3757
389 posts
Dec 08, 2007
9:57 AM
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Kenny - You are correct and I am in agreement but let me add a little more. One of my good friends has a Smith line 100 percent pure and he has had them since the late 60's. He has birds now that spin like hell but they have huge muffs (not all but most). Now, I do not care for 5 inch muffs either but his birds are straight and to top it off he bred in individual pens. So, you can get those huge muffs the way he did without breeding for them. If a guy is breeding only for huge muffs I would run the other directions because we are not in accord and do not have the same goals. I do not bash him if that is what he likes but it is not my cup of tea either. Did you have any of the 3845 blood or 119? Some of the 119 stuff had grouse legs also especially the stuff that Frank Lavin had.
Last Edited by on Dec 08, 2007 9:59 AM
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Alohazona
359 posts
Dec 08, 2007
10:58 AM
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I have birds from Rich Hayes,good sizes muffs,not continental big,but not grouse.Look at Rich's numbers for the last 12 years,he flys all the competitions that come his way.I have 2 black selfs that drop straight down for 25 ft.The pepperheads bred from birds I got from Rich,look like they will tear the shirt off your back,confidence all the way!....Aloha,Todd
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
1186 posts
Dec 08, 2007
10:59 AM
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Victor.What a nice looking bird.I thought I was going to have to take a heart pill.Made my heart skip a beat.Thanks for posting the pic. David
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
1187 posts
Dec 08, 2007
11:13 AM
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I told you man.Maybe I better still take some kind of pill.LOL.Sorry about the mistake in the name Hector.
Yeah Winter always drives me inside and gets me in trouble on the computer.But I enjoy the forums.David
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Canspinners
6 posts
Dec 09, 2007
3:28 PM
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silentroll
251 posts
Dec 09, 2007
8:27 PM
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Bluesman I think I heard Hector Victor Coya before or seen it somewhere...
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