smoke747
173 posts
Dec 14, 2007
7:20 PM
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FELLAS, IN YOUR OWN OPINION OR EXPERIENCE, DESCRIBE THE CHAMPION PERFORMER.
FELLAS, MY REASON FOR SOME OF THE QUESTIONS IS TO HELP A NEW FLYER/BREEDER WITH ALL THE DIFERENT IDEAS AND THOUGHTS SO THEY MAY CHOOSE THE METHOD THAT WORKSFOR THEM.
SMOKE747
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flyspin
8 posts
Dec 15, 2007
12:06 AM
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Smoke, Here’s a few must for my champion,
Control- a champ can’t be a champion stuck to the pavement.
Team Player- must play well with others.
Style- Wing position, A pattern from beginning to end of the spin.
Speed- fast, blur beginning to end of spin.
Depth- multiple depths (5-30ft)
Frequency- all champions like to spin.
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Frank H.
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gotspin7
816 posts
Dec 15, 2007
6:15 AM
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I will chime in with Frank on this one!
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Sal Ortiz
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CSRA
755 posts
Dec 15, 2007
6:22 AM
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That's some very good explanation of the champion performer good work guys great topic Keith
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rollerpigeon1963
206 posts
Dec 15, 2007
7:27 AM
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Everyones version of a champion is different. Mine is a something that only comes around once in a life time. Because a true champion is somthing that isn't easy to obtain. Because it is rare for something to come along and takes its place.
A champion is a bird that has all the goods from kitting, style, depth and frequency. One that blurrs when it rolls or has the High H wing pattern. One that rolls nice and smooth but with exceptional speed. One that snaps out of the roll just as claen as it started. And heads right back to the kit. One that rolls from the front of the kit everytime as if it were a trigger bird. I believe when your flying it as a young bird its the one you tell everyone about how it makes you when it rolls. It gives you that sparkle in your eyes as your telling it to your best of friends. It's the one you want everyone to see whan they come over to watch your kit fly.
But to me that is only a half of champion. A true champion is something more than that. Its a bird that can reproduce its own. I mean one that can throw the goods to its offspring. One that you can put on 7 different hens and get some great rollers out of. A champion is something that is rare. And when I hear some people who raises 10 to 12 champions a year I just have to shake my head. Because if they were able to raise that many champions they would have one heck of a kit to fly for the W/C and Fall Fly. And they are never at the time of there game so I just let it be. But a true champion is one that should be a foundation bird that your family is based around. One that will thrive in your loft years to come. Not one that can be replaced once or twice a year by some other birds in your loft.
So you can have a great performer or a great breeder but it takes a champion to be the best at both.
Just my opinion
Brian Middaugh
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Missouri-Flyer
1109 posts
Dec 15, 2007
8:26 AM
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Howdy Brian,
I may be looking deeper into your words than need be, but with you saying, a champion you can put with 7 hens, and still produce the goods with any of them, are you saying that the chances of breeding a true champ will most likely come in the form of a cock bird?
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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sac_spinners
212 posts
Dec 15, 2007
8:52 AM
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Thats my kind of Champion also Brain....Nice to see you posting in here again Buddy.......
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NCRC (Northern California Roller Club)
Chor V
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916fastspinner
15 posts
Dec 15, 2007
9:01 AM
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all you guys are in the same track...one thing you guys should know is that everybody has there own ways of a good champion bird
san
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classicpony
602 posts
Dec 15, 2007
10:42 AM
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Dido here.
Jim
Illinois
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rollerpigeon1963
207 posts
Dec 15, 2007
11:01 AM
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Jerry,
I forgot to put the Cock/Hens or vise versa. A hen can be also a champion. Wouldn't it be great to have two equal birds that you can pair together to reproduce there own.
San,
That is very true but I believe that if you call it a champion its your very best of all times. Not your best this year or the best last year but the best overall. I hear some people who say they bred 3 or 4 champions last year. And all that does for me is think to myself yea right. A champion is a champion until something is comes along better. How can you have 4 or 5 champions in your loft. You might have 5 great rollers and producers but these is one that will stick out in your mind of your very best.
And when a new guy comes into the hobby and reads all this about this fancier who has 4 to 5 champions a year. What is he/her suppose to think? Then you read the reports from the fly's and see this guy only getting a 1.0 or a 1.1 year after year on his multipliers. What does that tell ya?
I believe some people use the word champion to loose!
but that is just my honest opinion.
Best of luck
Brian Middaugh
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RUDY..ZUPPPPP
694 posts
Dec 15, 2007
12:16 PM
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Excellent post CUZZZZZZZZZ
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RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
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Mount Airy Lofts
321 posts
Dec 15, 2007
1:53 PM
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Brian M..,
Good to see you posting again.
Merry Christmas,
Thor
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J T
89 posts
Dec 15, 2007
2:28 PM
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I agree with Brian.
A true CHAMPION is rare.
And almost impossiable to BUY.$$$$$
JT
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smoke747
178 posts
Dec 16, 2007
4:39 AM
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brian you get an A+. EXCELLENT
SMOKE747
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CSRA
772 posts
Dec 16, 2007
8:10 AM
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Brian thats a great explanation very dependable bird
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J_Star
1477 posts
Dec 17, 2007
6:14 PM
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The word "Champion" is used loosly in this hobby. However, it is used more often just to indicate the bird is an excellent performer. And it needs to be seen as such.
Jay
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smoke747
184 posts
Dec 17, 2007
7:17 PM
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OK, SINCE WE ALL HAVE MIXED FEELINGS ON WHAT A CHAMPION IS AND WHAT BIRD/S DESERVE THIS TITLE, WE MUST DEVELOPE A SYSTEM/COMP THAT COULD DETERMINE WHAT A CHAMPION DOES NOT HAVE TO BE PERFECT. WE WANT A PERFECT BIRD. IN MOST SPORTS THE CHAMPIONSHIP TEAMS ARE VERY RARELY PERFECT BUT ARE CHAMPIONS BECAUSE THEY EXCELLED OVER ALL THE REST IN A CONTEST AND I REPEAT CONTEST, SO UNLESS THAT BIRD/S ARE ACTUALLY COMPETING THEY CANNOT BE CROWNED CHAMPION. LIKE JSTAR SAID, THE ARE JUST GOOD SPINNERS.
HOW MANY OF US HAVE HAD A BIRD/S THAT REALY WON A COMPETITION TO BE CALLED CHAMPION/S ??????? THAT IS WHY I SAID,""DESCRIBE THE CHAMPION""
SMOKE747
Last Edited by on Dec 17, 2007 7:22 PM
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parlorfancier916
418 posts
Dec 17, 2007
7:44 PM
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Bill Pensom says that there is no such thing as a champion performer anymore because more and more of the people are getting into competition and do not seek individual performances. In terms of the best I'd seek, is a group of performers that roll after the kit master and they roll fast, frequently and with the X or H style. These birds should majority be in their 2nd year, because 1st year performers is too young to determine and 3rd year performers that do this should already be in the holdovers or breeding pens unless if replacable by stock and holdover.. They should also have great kitting ability and control of the roll..
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Nrhoua (Doua) Xiong
4581 25th ave. sacramento C.A. 95820
http://freewebs.com/parlorrollers
Last Edited by on Dec 17, 2007 7:47 PM
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rollerpigeon1963
211 posts
Dec 17, 2007
7:49 PM
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Smoke,
I don't have a champion in my loft. It is something that I strive for every year. Now thats not saying I dont have some super rollers because I do. But for me to call a pigeon a champion I can't. I have seen some birds in the air that I would call exceptional rollers/spinners. But I don't have a clue about what they can do in the breeding loft. Since I have seen a great exceptional roller in the air I know what 1/2 of my struggle should look like. When Joe Roe called the 0111F bird a blurr I seen what she could do and man that image is still in my mind. She is one that comes but once in a life time. So now I need something that blurrs with excellent style and good depth as well as can produce the goods in the stock loft.
I can't fool myself after seeing all the kits all over the country and seeing this and that at different lofts. I seen what good birds look like in the air and I know in my head what it means to produce its own on different mates.
I might be lucky if I stock a bird or two a year. I figure I need to cull hard and only choose something that will advance me further in my program. Because I figure if I cant move forward I just moving backwards.
Best of luck
Brian Middaugh
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smoke747
186 posts
Dec 17, 2007
8:06 PM
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NOW PARLOR, 1963,
YOU GUYS ARE GETTING IT. PENSOM WAS THE BEST, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT STATEMENT COULD HOLD UP TODAY. IF JUDGED CORRECTLY, KIT COMP WILL BETTER THE DEVELOPEMENT OF THE BIRMINGHAM ROLLER. I HAVE NOT BEEN ALL OVER THE WORLD, BUT I HAVE BEEN ALL OVER CA. I'VE SEEN SOME GOOD KITS AND I'VE SEEN SOME GOOD SPINNERS. ARIS PUNLA HAD THE BEST INDIDIDUAL IN THE CA STATE FLY 2004 WHICH I JUDGED.
NOW, DOES THIS BIRD DESERVE TO BE CALLED A CHAMPION?
SMOKE747
Last Edited by on Dec 17, 2007 8:07 PM
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Skylineloft
576 posts
Dec 17, 2007
8:09 PM
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I know that Laron Ducet is pushing for more single bird competitions and some clubs here in Southern California are already adding these types of competitions to there fly schedule. I know that the SBRC is already doing this with the 1 to 5 scoring system.
Im all for this and I think it will definitely push us to breed more towards the ultimate spinner, champion if you will. I know that many of us already do breed for quality spinners but I think this will help push it that much farther.
I look foreword in competing in single bird competitions as well as kit competitions in 2008. I feel that they are both important to the hobby and the birmingham roller as a breed.
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Ray
Breeding Quality Spinners,
"One Roller At A Time".
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smoke747
187 posts
Dec 17, 2007
8:28 PM
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RAY,
YOU ARE A GOOD GUY. I LOOK FORWARD TO YOU BEING OUR RD FOR 2008-2009.
ITS JUST SOMETIMES IT SEEMS LIKE THE INDIVIDUAL FLYERS DON'T THINK THE KIT FLYERS CAN FLY OR KNOW WHAT A GOOD INDIVIDUL SPINNER IS.
THE SBRC DOES HAVE A GOOD SYSTEM AND I THINK IT COULD BENEFIT THE HOBBY/SPORT BUT PEOPLE NEED TO SEE SOME OF THESE FAST SPINNERS(RESULTS), MYSELF INCLUDED.
SMOKE747
Last Edited by on Dec 17, 2007 9:20 PM
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tapp
495 posts
Dec 17, 2007
9:14 PM
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Someting I don't have! But will always strive for year after year!! Brian said it best. But thats a lot of things that have to line up PERFECT to be a Champion! But that's what it takes to be a Champion.
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Tapp
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parlorfancier916
419 posts
Dec 17, 2007
9:30 PM
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If a birmingham rolls a minimum of 15 feet and spins really fast and tight as if it was a blurr or a ball in the air but did not return to the kit or rekit after the spin, I would say it's rubbish lol... but hey my opinion differs from everyone elses right?
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Nrhoua (Doua) Xiong
4581 25th ave. sacramento C.A. 95820
http://freewebs.com/parlorrollers
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smoke747
189 posts
Dec 17, 2007
9:36 PM
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I'M WITH ON THAT PARLOR. GOOD KITTING IS AN ABSOLUTE MUST.
SMOKE747
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