155
96 posts
Dec 25, 2007
9:09 AM
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I've been in the hobby for going on two years and I heared about that 514 bird. My question is has anyone raised a better bird then that 514? For insteants that bird hatched in 1953, say for example lets say that, that bird lived till 1968 and its 2007 going on 2008 thats almost 39 years going on 40 years that it died. HAS ANYONE RAISED ANYTHING BETTER THEN THAT BIRD??? Certianly someone has breed something better. Why would you want to try to resorect that bird? 514 is older then most of use guys that are in the roller hobby. Just a question I thought of..
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Missouri-Flyer
1157 posts
Dec 25, 2007
9:16 AM
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That is a question that couldnt be answered honestly, due to the fact that there are so many back yard fliers, that have quality birds, that no one will ever see, and the vast majority of people now a-days have great birds, so the chance of breeding another 514 goes way up when there are more breeders, with great birds...But, who actually seen 514 fly, to be able to give us a performance evaluation?..Forget what he looked like on the ground.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2023 posts
Dec 25, 2007
9:41 AM
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514 was a hen. See ya all tomorrow. ;-)
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
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3757
411 posts
Dec 25, 2007
9:44 AM
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Jerry you are so correct. Also, there are a few people who did see 514 in the air that are alive but not many. The issue with the 514 line was that she produced champions for Bill Pensom and others as well as her progeny. Telstar, 119, 3757, 145 etc. The birds had extreme velocity and style. However not everyone was successful with the birds because some guys tried to breed by pedigree alone and we know that this does not work. Many people have great families today and do not even know that their birds also go back to this hen one way or another. Bruce Coopers line, Monty's line, Houghton’s etc
Last Edited by on Dec 25, 2007 9:56 AM
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Missouri-Flyer
1160 posts
Dec 25, 2007
9:51 AM
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I agree,
A Ped. is just a piece of paper.. Information purposes ONLY!
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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Missouri-Flyer
1161 posts
Dec 25, 2007
9:56 AM
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hmmm, was using he in regards to a bird, not a sex in general..Glad we have some bright lights in this bunch..LOL
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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3757
412 posts
Dec 25, 2007
10:01 AM
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It is information only and only if it is correct. I have seen pedigree's where two blue check selfs produced a grizzle (Wrong) or a blue check self cock on a red check self hen producing two self red check hens (impossiple since it is a sex link mating). But Jerry you are so right.
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Missouri-Flyer
1162 posts
Dec 25, 2007
10:10 AM
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3757,
I have seen the same thing, from some known breeders.. Kinda makes ya wonder...The information is only as good as the person writing it.. you have to be honest with yourself, and not write down something that your unsure about, and especially not to gain money because of a birds band number...But, many do it, knowing they are cheating someone.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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ezeedad
197 posts
Dec 25, 2007
10:14 AM
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hardtimekenl2
106 posts
Dec 25, 2007
12:57 PM
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well how about the little richerd jack hen .black rain? I think what i have read on here .she might be as good as 514. she put meany good birds in the sky to did she not?
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Missouri-Flyer
1164 posts
Dec 25, 2007
1:15 PM
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That bird lacks some serious eye appeal. Just my opinion.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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rollerman132
198 posts
Dec 25, 2007
3:53 PM
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Pensom described 514 as a bird that lacked nothing; stating the best birds as having a frequency of once a minute, balled up, hole seen from the side, straight downward roll. If his description is correct,some of the birds breed today are just as good as 514 if not better.just my opnion.
Last Edited by on Dec 25, 2007 4:00 PM
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elopez
203 posts
Dec 25, 2007
4:18 PM
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She looks nice. I'm sure that there other birds as good if not better. 40 years is a long time and alot of good birds have been breed and flown.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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hectorvicki2003@yaho
149 posts
Dec 25, 2007
10:01 PM
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I think her legs are a little long.
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Hector Coya
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gotspin7
957 posts
Dec 26, 2007
5:48 AM
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I am pretty sure there has been a lot of great birds bred in the last 40 years!LOL!!
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Sal Ortiz
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3757
413 posts
Dec 26, 2007
6:00 AM
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155 - Also, 514 and her progeny were listed in Bill's records as a rare performer. So, she was not just a good pigeon in Bill's observation.
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gotspin7
962 posts
Dec 26, 2007
6:01 AM
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Laron, do you have any going back to 514?
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Sal Ortiz
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3757
415 posts
Dec 26, 2007
6:09 AM
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Sal - All of Bruce Coopers family of birds are off of 3757 who was 3/4 of 514. Bruce's family is all off of one cock that was a son of 3757.
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gotspin7
968 posts
Dec 26, 2007
6:10 AM
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Laron, I did not know that. Cool!
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Sal Ortiz
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gotspin7
969 posts
Dec 26, 2007
6:11 AM
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Laron, ignore my other post then. Thanks!
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Sal Ortiz
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CSRA
982 posts
Dec 26, 2007
7:34 AM
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514 was a champion in her time she is a champion always thats the way that works are birds just as good today yes we only have more like her thats all back then you only had a handful of fanciers back then now we have thousand correct or not correct no disrespect to any birds back in time example Wilt Chamberlain to Kobe Bryant both super stars in there time
Last Edited by on Dec 26, 2007 12:20 PM
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bigwilly
171 posts
Dec 26, 2007
7:35 AM
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Good point Steve. Ha Ya Fellin?
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ezeedad
203 posts
Dec 26, 2007
11:40 AM
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LaRon,
Good information on the 514 hen.. That needed to be heard... Paul
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CSRA
988 posts
Dec 26, 2007
12:23 PM
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Hey Paul what about the orig. black and white hen she was a great producer what you think 2 second hen great grand mother was she directly from pensom 2059's mother Paul
Last Edited by on Dec 26, 2007 12:25 PM
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ezeedad
204 posts
Dec 26, 2007
12:34 PM
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Steve,
My foundation Black and Whites' father was NBRC 65 #2884 which I got from Pensom. He was a red white ender. I haven't been able to trace him, but I know Pensom bred him.
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ezeedad
205 posts
Dec 26, 2007
12:37 PM
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Steve,
What happened to the little Almond you showed me at Keiths' show.? You're a hard one to pin down...Slippery..
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CSRA
992 posts
Dec 26, 2007
3:33 PM
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Paul i gave that bird to a guy up here by the name Joe Brackens
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gotspin7
985 posts
Dec 27, 2007
5:45 AM
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Laron, why did Bill fly her for 5 years before stocking her I was wondering since you know a whole lot of history on these birds.
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Sal Ortiz
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3757
421 posts
Dec 27, 2007
7:43 AM
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Sal - Thanks for the compliment. Also, your question is a good one. I was fortunate enough that my father new Bill Patrick who in turn introduced me to many great roller fanciers as a young man and was able to learn a lot. Many of the individuals who are my close friends have the Pensom family and kind of laugh when some of the stories are told that are not really true and these stories are passed on and changed over time. Bill Pensom did not stock a bird just because it was a rare spinner but would pull it for a short period of time, breed it and put it back in the air. He was looking for the producers of rare high velocity performance. Y-55-4220 born in 1955 / PRC-56-109 was born in 1956 off of 514 and there were others. He actually started trying her early on and continued to put her back into the air until he understood her worth in 5 years. Her worth was that she was also producing rare performers as herself.
Last Edited by on Dec 27, 2007 3:13 PM
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parlorfancier916
442 posts
Dec 27, 2007
10:42 AM
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The 514 I had bred before the dog got the young rolled A style, very fast, I do not see them performing the hole and they don't seem to kit when young until they hit their adult moult which is about 6-9 months, I acquired the pair as a gift from Dave_vang. Thank god I still have the 514 pair. maybe I should post pictures when I get the time. you guys determine to me if it really is 514 line though...
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Nrhoua (Doua) Xiong
4581 25th ave. sacramento C.A. 95820
http://freewebs.com/parlorrollers
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gotspin7
1004 posts
Dec 28, 2007
6:05 AM
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Laron, I just wondered about that. I just wish we could not worry about the predation and fly like they did back in the good old days! Laron you know your history, I have to give you credit on that. Thanks again!
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Sal Ortiz
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Double R
206 posts
Dec 28, 2007
6:42 AM
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3757,
I just want you to know that your knowledge of roller history is very much appreciated. It's kinda nice having someone around to answer our questions about the past and present roller world. Thanks
Robby
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3757
425 posts
Dec 28, 2007
7:47 AM
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Sal and Robby - Thank you very much.
Last Edited by on Dec 28, 2007 8:04 AM
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