jerrylynn
8 posts
Jan 03, 2008
9:06 PM
|
What are the groups views and thoughts on the length and depth of the keel and how it affects the roll?
Jerry Lynn
|
Fire Brewed Rollers
41 posts
Jan 03, 2008
9:18 PM
|
Yep, the shorter keeled birds can spin faster. You want the fastest spinning birds possible so go for the shorter keeled birds. The family must have the speed built in because you can't add it.
Robert Miller
Fire Brewed Rollers
SGVS
|
GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
355 posts
Jan 03, 2008
9:44 PM
|
Jerry ,did you live in GG(harbor& lampson)in the (I think in the early 70's). Wondering if your the same Jerry Lynn.
R-LUNA
|
jerrylynn
9 posts
Jan 03, 2008
9:53 PM
|
Yes sir I am that Jerry Lynn that was over 30 years ago. My son was just born when I lived there. He is now 32 with a 2 year old and another on the way!!! :)Jerry
|
W@yne
899 posts
Jan 03, 2008
10:13 PM
|
There's just been a discussion on keels on another list that says
short keels,
longer keels,
curved keels,
straight keels,
can all roll so its debatable and personal preference of the flyer and the strain in my opinion.
----------
Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
=====================================
|
gotspin7
1098 posts
Jan 04, 2008
5:59 AM
|
FLy them they will show who are the best.LOL
----------
Sal Ortiz
|
GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
356 posts
Jan 04, 2008
7:36 AM
|
Well WEll WEll, hey Jerry that's where I first met, seeing your birds flying I stopped and I inquired. You were very cool and polite .I even remember the bids I bought from you, it was a black pepperhead hen, a cream bar hen that you bred out a red bar, (man know I forgot the others)I believe these were from Frank Lavins line (I could be mistaken). Those two mentioned hens (man) did I like, the cream bar was a favorite. I'm sure you dont remember me for it being a long long and a long time ago.LOL... My name is Richard Luna, I lived out there in Garden Grove also (home grown there). It's good to see you here and to know it is you.Hey Jerry I wish you the best in health and for your family. ...Happy New Year!!!!
R-LUNA
|
GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
357 posts
Jan 04, 2008
7:44 AM
|
Wayne, I agree with you the keel ,, it is a personal prefrence with the breeder ...... I have seen rollers of all types of keel that rolled or SPIN!!! There is only one thing,, the keel ((placement)) that is essential and important for the bird to spin.
R-LUNA
|
luis
456 posts
Jan 04, 2008
10:30 AM
|
Richard could you elaborate more on "keel placement" for us newer breeders.
|
crystalpalace
230 posts
Jan 04, 2008
11:09 AM
|
I thought id say hellow for Ken Billings and myself. We havent forgotten you, Jerry. I remember when you first began writting articles about your rollers. Remember those that concerned the #26 family? I still have some from that line of rollers that are top and bottom bred. Then i bred them to my top and bottom #514 Blue-Black check and top and bottom #183 mealy bar and they clicked great. I have the pedigree papers from the #26 family and everyone in Modesto, California bred and flew them. You bred and flew great rollers and it was swell seeing your post. The keel lenght controversial ideals have been going on for a long time. Some roller fanciers that have owned and flown champion bloodlines and have bred and flown a real champion roller know the proper lengh of the keel. I wont elaborate about it anymore but it would be wise to study from the most experienced roller fancier near you. In the sport, Ray Sanchez
|
smoke747
422 posts
Jan 04, 2008
11:34 AM
|
GOOD POST CRYSTAL PALACE.
FOR MY SELF, I LIKE MINE MEDIUM LENGTH AND DEPTH WITH A NICE PITCH THAT GOES STRAIGHT TOWARDS THE VENT. THE BIRD SHOULD FEEL LIKE ONE SOLID PEICE IN THE HAND.
SMOKE747
Last Edited by on Jan 04, 2008 11:36 AM
|
smoke747
436 posts
Jan 04, 2008
4:01 PM
|
KEEL DEPTH AND PITCH ALONG WITH WING SIZE AND SHAPE, I FEEL DIRECTLY RELATED TO WING BEAT WHICH AFECTS FLIGHT SPEED AND PATTERN IN MY BIRDS. I TRY TO KEEP THE BIRDS MORE ON AMEDIUM FRAME WITH A MED KEEL DEPTH WITH A GOOD PITCH(NIKE SIGN). I ALSO BREED TOWARD THE MED TO MED/SM WING IN LENGTH AND I LIKE THE SPACE BETWEEN THE 1ST ARM BONE AND THE TIP OF THE SECONDARIES TO BE SMALL. THESE TEND TO HAVE A STEADY WING BEAT, FLY AT A SLOWER SPEED AND ARE MORE EXPLOSIVE ON THE BREAKS. SINCE THERE IS LITTLE WING ON THE PIGEON, YOU SEE LESS WING. AT LEAST IN MY PIGEONS. WORKING ON GETTING ALL MY BIRDS LIKE THIS.
I'LL TRY TO POST PICS OF THESE BIRDS AND THE WINGS.
I NEED A PRO PHOTOGRAPHER. CSRA?..LOL YOU DO TAKE GOOD PICS
SMOKE747
Last Edited by on Jan 04, 2008 4:05 PM
|
luis
460 posts
Jan 04, 2008
4:07 PM
|
A lot of my birds have very small keels but not much depth or curvature to them.Is this o.k?
|
smoke747
437 posts
Jan 04, 2008
4:24 PM
|
IF THE BIRDS ARE KITTING AND PERFORMING GOOD IT IS OK. WHAT I MENTIONED IN MY POST REFERRS TO MY FAMILY OF BIRDS. YOU SHOULD BE ALRIGHT. LUIS YOU SEEM LIKE YOU WANT TO LEARN, NOW MY ADVICE TO YOU WOULD BE KEEP CHECKING THE POST AND LEARN FROM THEM ALONG WITH YOUR ACTUAL EXPERIENCE YOU DO WELL IN THIS HOBBY.( PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO YOUR BIRDS,THEY WILL TEACH YOU A LOT)
SMOK747
|
centralvalleylofts
86 posts
Jan 04, 2008
5:54 PM
|
again diffrent strokes for diffrent folks. same is true of the birds diffrent famalies are bred accordingly. depending od topography that means where in the world they are bred.due to climatic conditions ones keel and zise of birds would be choosen for them. that does not mean that the others would disapear from a famaly. this just means that some would do better than others and one chooses not necessarily becuase. heres example:deeper means stronger muscles and more mass. for contendind windy areas b.o.p.
where your birds would require more strenght to evade their pursuers and to contend with stronger wind gust. on the contrary a small shallow keel bird would be lighter smaller less muscle mass remember that muscle weights more than fat. this means the birds get blown away in strong winds. overflys due to barometer high pressure.
they tire faster in b.o.p chase thus if you noticed that the b.o.p always tend to get our best spinners thats because of this so as to which would be a better keel that would be if conditions are perfect this would a small medium keel with a slight tigh curve back with tight vents.
but again only if they survive to the breeding pen.
just my two cents: central
|
gotspin7
1115 posts
Jan 04, 2008
6:06 PM
|
Good read Central!
----------
Sal Ortiz
|
Snake Doctor
130 posts
Jan 04, 2008
7:41 PM
|
Smoke,
Would you provide some specific measurements to give us new guys something to go on when you say, "medium keel length, medium depth of keel and the distance between the first arm bone and the primaries, etc." I am so new and have seen so few rollers that I don't have a concept of what you mean.
I've actually only had the opportunity to see a total of 3 fanciers lofts and their kits flying.
It would also helpful to know the extreams, the short and long of it.
Thanks!
----------
SD
|
GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
358 posts
Jan 04, 2008
8:00 PM
|
Luis I just got off of work, but I would be more than glad to explain. It would have to be shown to you and explained by shown examples.There's shallow keels and deep keels, short , long keels, curved up,and straight keels, none of these will make your birds roll or spin better than an other. It also has to go hand in hand with the length of back and muscles really to get a clean roll or spin.It is not what you believe but rather to know why you believe.
R-LUNA
Last Edited by on Jan 04, 2008 10:08 PM
|
Donny James
234 posts
Jan 04, 2008
8:22 PM
|
i have to agree with wayne.............donny james
|
luis
465 posts
Jan 04, 2008
8:30 PM
|
Thanks Richard.I agree it has to be shown by example,but what i gathered from your info is all the different elements have to tie in together thru form for exceptional function!
|
GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
360 posts
Jan 04, 2008
8:47 PM
|
Luis ,yes that's correct(right on).
R-LUNA
|
kcfirl
239 posts
Jan 04, 2008
9:55 PM
|
I have changed my opinion on this through the short time I have been in the sport. I've been through 3 phases:
1- didn;t know, didn;t care - novice
2- enamored with nothing but speed and thought short keeled birds were it! Let's call it the Neible syndrome. This means that I was in with the shorter the netter thinking - not a disparagement of one of the greatest flyers of all time mand his birds.
3- current thinking - a bit off keel length sure helps the style. I believe a bird that a super short coupled bird has hard time showing () style that I am after. Too long and the speed and style suffer too. Short keeled birds can be blurs, but they tend to be less smooth in the roll than a bird with a bit more length.
Firl
|
smoke747
451 posts
Jan 04, 2008
10:22 PM
|
Snake D, I'll post some pics as soon as the weather clears up. when i discuss keel and wing, i'm doing so in reference to flight speed, wing beat and delivery of the roll. i'll do a project explain what i'm saying.
smoke747
|
Skylineloft
829 posts
Jan 04, 2008
10:33 PM
|
I have never paid too much attention to the length of the keel. I do know this much. When I hold a bird in the hand, If its not balanced out, I know it. it Might make for a good kit bird, but you need to know what to look for when it comes to breeding your own stock.
----------
Ray
Breeding Quality Spinners,
"One Roller At A Time".
|
Double R
218 posts
Jan 05, 2008
7:30 AM
|
Smoke,
Some example pictures would be a great help to all of us that are newbies and still learning what to look for. We can use all the help we can get.LOL THANKS!!!!
Examples like what we are looking for and why.
Robby
|
Fire Brewed Rollers
42 posts
Jan 05, 2008
7:58 AM
|
Here you go, look at the example below, this tool makes the best reference for keel length possible.
Use a 6" to 8" rule to make the tool.
Robert Miller
Fire Brewed Rollers
SGVS
|
Snake Doctor
132 posts
Jan 05, 2008
9:28 AM
|
Thanks Smoke, I'll look forward to your examples and explanation.
Thanks Firebrewed, I'll make me one of those
"Semper Fi"
SD
|
jerrylynn
12 posts
Jan 06, 2008
4:14 PM
|
Hello Richard I do remember you. Ray I have heard of you for years but am not sure if that I have ever had the pleasure of meeting you. Yes the #26 was bred by Frank, Frank started me with three pair of birds in 1972 I watched those 6 pigeons fly for an entire year before I got them. Frank wanted to keep that kit together to fly the NBRC Fly in the FaLL 1971. Man those were the days when you could fly a team for two full years or longer!
I developed my entire strain of birds from the 26. I had a lot of the Smith blood from Frank also. #1315,3815,3821,3859 I got a hen from Frank that if you may remember that was from his #39 hen? I believe that she was a full sister to 3821. There was a fellow that Frank got his birds from some there in LA when either he passed or went out his first name was John. I got a cock bird #548 from him that was a full brother to his #39 and the 3821 hen I sold that #548 bird to Jaconette along with several of the #26 sons and daughthers at the same time he got Rusty from Richard Espinoza and David Sanchez. The best of the New Year to you and Ray and all of the old timers who are still into the sport. Jerry Lynn
|
Skylineloft
850 posts
Jan 06, 2008
4:34 PM
|
Wow Jerry,
Thats a ton of information.
Please keep sharing.
Its great to hear about the history of the birds here in this area as well as the guys that flew them.
----------
Ray
Breeding Quality Spinners,
"One Roller At A Time".
|
centralvalleylofts
87 posts
Jan 08, 2008
7:32 PM
|
jerry have you had the opportunity to re-claim some of your old stock or you flying jerry,s stock now.
just curious.
central.
|
jerrylynn
24 posts
Jan 08, 2008
7:38 PM
|
Hello Central Valley
Sorry to say I am not with the sport any more. I went out 02" after 30 years. But I will always have the passion for the birds that I have had my entire life. I like to look in on your guys to keep up to date. Happy New Year and the best to you and your family.
Jerry Lynn
|
