3757
467 posts
Jan 12, 2008
5:18 AM
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I have a friend that has not flown birds in 20 years. He puts birds in the show pen and they look great. Nice bodies etc. He will go to see a bird spin and say that it is not built correctly. Even if he sees a bird is shrinking he will not give credit to the bird. He is consistently faulting other people’s strains and thinks his birds can spin like the ones 20 years ago. Every time he gives birds to people they fly them for years, junk them and he gets mad. I call them show pen spinners. Always criticizing others but never fly’s anything for himself. If there is anyone out there like this please get out and visit someone else. If you cannot every once in a while ship a few birds in and fly them for comparison. Not to change strains but analyze so that you will continue to grow and learn. It is a different ball of wax today. There are a lot of good birds and no one has a monopoly on anything when it comes to Birmingham Rollers. Type is an important aspect but if that is all you have and do not fly you might as well raise Trumpeters!
Last Edited by on Jan 12, 2008 5:29 AM
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gotspin7
1190 posts
Jan 12, 2008
5:28 AM
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Laron, Great Post! Fly them show us what you are talking about! Right! I agree 100%
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Sal Ortiz
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3757
468 posts
Jan 12, 2008
5:33 AM
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Sal - Yes, at least for the people that he associates with. I am not saying he has to go out and fly in competition but for his friends and for his own satisfaction. It drives me up the wall and I recently stopped going to see him. Incidently, he does not have a BOP problem so this is not the reason.
Last Edited by on Jan 12, 2008 5:34 AM
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maxspin
159 posts
Jan 12, 2008
5:47 AM
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We had a similar person near me. A pedigree breeder.
I am a big believer in seeing before you spend your money. If you can't do that then spend some time looking at fly records, and try to get birds from someone who is consistently at the top of the score sheet in there region.
Keith
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W@yne
923 posts
Jan 12, 2008
5:48 AM
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LaRon tell him to put up or shut up lol.
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Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
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3757
470 posts
Jan 12, 2008
5:56 AM
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Wayne - You know me and I would not do that. I know it is his choice but I told him last night that I was going to write this to try and motivate him. To his credit he has the best looking show pen spinners that I have ever seen.
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CSRA
1118 posts
Jan 12, 2008
6:13 AM
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Good post they should be flown and proven because a bird can have everything to spin body wise but he has to want to that has to be program also lol
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
374 posts
Jan 12, 2008
6:37 AM
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Laron ,What UP!! Hope everthing is good with you. Hey dude you know it's true some guys breed just for the type FIRST and have lost it in the air, just like breeding, just for the color.You and I have seen this numerous times (man thats wrong) unless their show rollers.Then the try to put the spin in later ,you and I know it is the backward procedure.Fisrt spin ,true type will show itself in the air and that type will evolve...Guarenteed!!!!!
Later Dude-------------R-LUNA
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3757
471 posts
Jan 12, 2008
6:42 AM
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Richard - I hope all is well and you are correct. Also, I have your bands. Dónde está el dinero de mi hermano?
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W@yne
925 posts
Jan 12, 2008
6:53 AM
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LaRon you are correct i hope you can motivate this guy back into flying these great birds because thats what they was bred for.
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Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
377 posts
Jan 12, 2008
6:54 AM
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Laron I'll give you a call later ,I'll be around that area today to drop off my dues...GRACIAS MI AMIGO!!!!!!!!
R-LUNA
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Flipmode
42 posts
Jan 12, 2008
7:10 AM
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The BIRMINHAM ROLLER is a "PERFORMING" BREED! Everything else is secondary.
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RUDY..ZUPPPPP
945 posts
Jan 12, 2008
7:28 AM
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Excellent post laron.................
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RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
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3757
472 posts
Jan 12, 2008
8:05 AM
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Rudy /Wayne et al - Thanks!
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John
159 posts
Jan 12, 2008
9:15 AM
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Laron,
That's a good post. I had a person ask to come to my house and look at the Neible birds. They came over and went through handling ever bird from Monty and at the end told me to kill all of them except this one cock. I laughed at them and before they left I asked could I come and see what they had that was so great.He let come bye and all they could do is put birds in show pens and tell me how nice they were,how balanced and how much expression they had. The birds look great but it was all show and no action. They kept calling out all these numbers from the pedigrees but that was all. Telling me these birds were true Birminghams.They had all these excuses as to why they couldn't fly any birds.After my questioning them about flying they finally gave in and flew a kit of mixed birds. WhenI say mixed I mean a few of his own and some from others in the area "STRAYS".Believe me it wasn't what I thought I would see from this guy because he has been in the game for a long time.His birds even come from one of the forefathers in this roller hobby.He made sure I knew that he didn't his birds from a second hand person. He got his directly from this icon and that they were great friends. I didn't want to give this guy a bad rap on one visit so I tried it again and it was much of the same on the next visit as well.I think this person is good guy and I have nothing against him personally but I think that they are stuck in 70's or 80's and the things they used to do.
John
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luis
506 posts
Jan 12, 2008
9:37 AM
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Granted that some of us have a huge problem with bops,i could understand folks giving up on flying.Some people can not stand to see their birds get slaughtered by the dozen on a weekly basis!On the other hand if you have bred pigeons long enough you have to understand that no matter what is in your peds all pigeons that are bred for performance or comp breed junk.This being said if you stop flying for a long period of time and continue to stock unflown birds for years the performance of your strain will suffer greatly because of it!You might be stocking birds that have no performance value and simply carry the genes for great looks...in other words the exterior looks awesome but the driving components that make up performance are nill !!
I fell in love with pigeons at a young age because of their ability to fly away and come back home.I love to see my birds fly.This love peaked my interest in performance breeds...aside from the fact that my brother bred thieves in Cuba.If someday i make the decision to quit flying(wich would be hard)i think i would turn to a show breed because performance breeds deserve better than to be stuck in a cage for the remainder of their natural existence!!
Last Edited by on Jan 12, 2008 9:38 AM
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smoke747
498 posts
Jan 12, 2008
9:50 AM
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Laron- thanks alot for that post!!!! I know several breeders like that. I call their birds "SUPER MODELS".
I go to their house to see atheletes not models. They are always putting other peoples birds down calling them comp rollers and that they have spinners...BULL SH#T!!!
SMOKE747
Last Edited by on Jan 14, 2008 11:54 PM
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3757
475 posts
Jan 12, 2008
10:33 AM
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Smoke - Thanks and you are right. The problem is people do not like to admit the truth in many cases and they would rather believe a lie. I know you know that I am a Pensom fanatic but I am not a pedigree breeder. A pedigree means nothing if a bird is in the show pen and some guys have generation after generation of birds not flown. I know a guy that has 7 generations of non-flown birds and he still thinks his birds are better than mine and this is caca de la vaca. I will admit that some of these birds are great lookers and I know how important type is but they have misinterpreted the Holy scrolls. Keith keep up the great work!
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smoke747
523 posts
Jan 14, 2008
11:57 PM
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I've been waiting for 5 years now for certain individual to show me something and teach me what he said would make me invincible..LOL. CANT WAIT!!
SMOKE747
Last Edited by on Jan 15, 2008 9:17 AM
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gotspin7
1221 posts
Jan 15, 2008
4:33 AM
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Hey Keith I want to be invincible!LOL!!
Laron, many moons ago I purchased a kit and 5 pair from a guy that had not flown in many years and always talked about how he had some super fast spinners and this was this and that was that!LOL, To make a long story short they were mostly all junk! The birds I flew were scared of the roll and the breeders produced more like them! But they had ideal type and had great expression! (SHOW PEN SPINNERS)LOL
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Sal Ortiz
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3757
490 posts
Jan 15, 2008
6:14 AM
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Keith - You and I will be 90 years old before that happens. It is a joke. Bruce Cooper sent me some more youngsters last year an the first thing he told me was to fly all of them!
Sal - Great story! If I were a newbie I would respect a guy a lot more if he told me to fly the birds, see what they can do and if they do well go from there. I have a bird that is so ugly my friends and I call him ugly. Ugly has produced some of the best spinners for me and he has yet to produce a bird like himself. Guys would walk all over ugly and pick the others never knowing who was the real producer!
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CSRA
1152 posts
Jan 15, 2008
7:34 AM
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Laron that tells me someone is lacking the knowledge on how to pick a bird on the ground
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3757
495 posts
Jan 15, 2008
7:57 AM
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Steve - I agree.
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
383 posts
Jan 15, 2008
7:59 AM
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Laron is UGLY,,,,,ugly in apperance only???
R-LUNA
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Skylineloft
943 posts
Jan 15, 2008
8:31 AM
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Well Guys,
I think I will be a good experiment for the guy who started out with a family of birds that where not flown. A good friend gave me a kit of squeakers. I did not fly one. He also loaned me some pairs to breed out of. Yes I put all the good ones I bred away after flying them for one season, If you could even call it that. So far some of these non flyers have produced very well for me but I know that I will also find some that will not. Can this be done ? Will I be able breed true Birmingham rollers this way ? I would not do this with anyones birds. Does this person I got my birds from fly true spinners ? He won the single bird State fly one year as well as many kit competitions!!!!!! The answer to these questions will be seen soon because I fly my birds. What a fun experiment...lol
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Ray
Breeding Quality Spinners,
"One Roller At A Time".
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smoke747
524 posts
Jan 15, 2008
9:23 AM
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Ray, the guy you got your birds from is a flyer himself. he flies some awesome kits and individuals. The people we are talking about DONT FLY ANYTHING and are always criticizing those that do fly.
smoke747
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Skylineloft
944 posts
Jan 15, 2008
10:23 AM
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Keith,
I guess your right. (WRONG PLACE FOR MY POST). I just see so many posts about not being able to stock from the nest. IM just one of those guys that think it can be done. I agree and I would not do this from just anybody, especially someone that does not fly there birds. That would be a huge waste of time. I personally think that out-crossing families of birds is more difficult to do then what IM doing and I believe that this would take longer due to the fact that now you have to build a family of birds that never existed. IM sure you understand that Keith knowing that you have been building your own family of birds for years. I bet you learned allot from that and can give allot of good advise about bringing in birds from different breeders. Keith, the birds you built your family around, Where they closely related in some way ? Example. Do they all go back to Reeds old stock ?
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Ray
Breeding Quality Spinners,
"One Roller At A Time".
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smoke747
530 posts
Jan 15, 2008
10:46 AM
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Ray,
I built my family with my Smoke line from the ground up. I got to a point were my birds had speed and frequency and kittted well, but the breaks were small(5 - 8). the depth was short(10 - 15'). Then I asked Kevin M. how he got his birds to go so deep together and remain frequent. He told me he went to Roy Trehern. so i got a cock bird from him which happens to be the certified cocks father. I wanted more of that stuff. When I got the pedigree I realized that the birds were bred down from Reed and Jerry's birds.
the higgins/smoke line in full effect. I still have one of the first birds from Jerry SDS-97-968 RED SPANGLE COCK. I call him the BES COCK (Bull Eye Spangle)
SMOKE747
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Skylineloft
945 posts
Jan 15, 2008
11:16 AM
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Keith,
Roy did have some good one's. I was at His place a few times. Got to hold Rusty when He was 17 years old...lol That old bird still looked great. I picked up A black W/F cock bird from Roy in the 90s I think the band # was 359. Anyway, every time Johnny would come by my house he would want to look at 359. He loved that bird, so I gave it to him. You will still see that bird back in Johnny's Pedigrees.
Sounds like you where able to get ahold of some real nice birds Keith. I look forward to seeing them this year.
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Ray
Breeding Quality Spinners,
"One Roller At A Time".
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smoke747
532 posts
Jan 15, 2008
11:29 AM
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I got lucky. You name was ringing back then also. you are humble and modest and those are good character traits. I've seen your birds back in the day, They were good then.
You'll only get better as you shake of the dust from being out so long. they say you cant teach old dogs new tricks.
You might be an old dog.LOL BUT THIS AINT NO NEW TRICK TO YOU.
SMOKE747
Last Edited by on Jan 15, 2008 1:15 PM
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Skylineloft
947 posts
Jan 15, 2008
11:44 AM
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LOL, Keith
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Ray
Breeding Quality Spinners,
"One Roller At A Time".
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Skylineloft
948 posts
Jan 15, 2008
1:15 PM
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Keith,
Speaking of teaching old dogs new tricks.
Being out of the hobby for so long there where many things I forgot. I seemed to make all the rookie mistakes all over again. Underfeeding, overfeeding, flying in the fog, flying when its too windy, flying with the barometer rising too high causing me to loose my first #1 team. Not homing in my young birds in properly. I think I talked Johnny's ear off and he was gracious enough to take the time to answer all my questions. This helped re jog my memory. I also learned a coupe of new tricks as well in my first year back. I had a good time.......lol
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Ray
Breeding Quality Spinners,
"One Roller At A Time".
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smoke747
533 posts
Jan 15, 2008
1:22 PM
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May you be blessed with more good times. I know you'll have good times as long as those BOPS don't spoil the party.
PREPARATION, OPPORTUNITY, AND A TOUCH OF JESUS IS ALL YOU'LL NEED FOR SUCCESS.
SMOKE747
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Sunflower
121 posts
Jan 02, 2009
7:04 AM
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Sal,
This sounds a little like what we were talking about yesterday on the phone.
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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ROBERT RODRIGUEZ
35 posts
Jan 02, 2009
1:42 PM
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SMOKE 747 NICE COMMENT "PREPARATION, OPPORTUNITY, AND A TOUCH OF JESUS IS ALL YOULL NEED 4 SUCCESS" I LIKE THAT THEME GOOD POST
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Sunflower
125 posts
Jan 02, 2009
1:53 PM
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Ditto fo me Smoke
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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