luis
515 posts
Jan 12, 2008
9:35 PM
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In Rollers,how long(how many generations) can you inbreed very tightly(Ex. bro x sis) before running into problems?
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Flipmode
44 posts
Jan 12, 2008
9:58 PM
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Hey Luis I think it depends on the family of birds. Some families will produce rolldowns or birds that wont perform at all from just one bro/sis or similar pairings! I've been breeding my whole family close (mom/son, dad/daughter, full bro/sis, cousins, grandad/grandaughter and grandmom/grandson since 2004 with great results.
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elopez
352 posts
Jan 12, 2008
11:13 PM
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Luis,
Good question. I'm no expert on this subject but I've been looking over a few of my pedigrees and for the most part all the birds have been inbreed over and over. Inbreeding helps locking in the good traits but it also will lock in the bad traits, so in my opinion inbreeding is a great method to get great results but I think by bringing another bird that is part of the same family but not as jammed up can help improve your family and take you to the next level.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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RUDY..ZUPPPPP
957 posts
Jan 13, 2008
4:25 AM
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Good question luis.........Im a rookie..couldnt answer..
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RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
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gotspin7
1196 posts
Jan 13, 2008
4:45 AM
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Luis, it might depend on the strain all my birds are related and I have no problems!
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Sal Ortiz
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CSRA
1127 posts
Jan 13, 2008
7:16 AM
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becareful when inbreeding do as much research as you can have your birds lost it vigor?
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Built4Speed
53 posts
Jan 13, 2008
8:00 AM
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Luis,
I have 2 pairs own right now that are full bro x sis, and I haven't had a problem yet, whenever you come over I will show you more.
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Dale
SGVS
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7001
9 posts
Jan 13, 2008
8:19 AM
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inbreeding and line breeding is the best way to create the birds you want.ex...big birds,smallbirds,roll deep roll short,type of head come in late, come in early the roll
etc......
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Mount Airy Lofts
375 posts
Jan 13, 2008
9:48 AM
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It is never a good thing to inbreed just to inbreed. The longer you go at it, the more you risk running into the unknowns. The worst case, a disease hitting your loft and killing every bird in there because you inbred the immunity gene out of them.
Thor
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3757
481 posts
Jan 13, 2008
10:01 AM
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I agree with 7001. If you look at my family they all come off of one cock and have been line bred and inbred. This is the only way to success in my opinion.
P.S - 7001 - I do not know if you know this but we are related on our moms side 514 lol
Last Edited by on Jan 13, 2008 10:03 AM
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7001
11 posts
Jan 13, 2008
10:35 AM
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3757, so did i find my long lost bro!lol!
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ezeedad
260 posts
Jan 13, 2008
10:47 AM
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Efren...regarding your response to Luis,
Inbreeding combines the good and bad genes...true.
But it gives you the chance to eliminate the bad characteristics when they show up.. So by inbreeding you also will eliminate bad traits by the breeders selection.
When you inbreed you should be looking for that bird or two that will improve your stock loft.
Paul
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3757
482 posts
Jan 13, 2008
11:09 AM
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Paul - That is right on the money and an exellent explination.
7001 - I think you did!
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W@yne
931 posts
Jan 13, 2008
11:33 AM
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In my opinion inbreeding is the only way forward to producing an excellent performing family of pigeons.
The goals we strive to achieve in a great family of pigeons are as follows
1, A kit of pigeons that fly with the same speed and wing beat.
2, A kit of pigeons that require the same amount of feed to perform using the same feed.
3, A kit of pigeons that know how and when to break in unison with excellent style and velocity
4, A kit of pigeons that know how to kit very tight as a team.
5, A kit of pigeons that produce the same amount of stamina amongst them .
All the above equals a very inbred successful kit of birds and in my opinion the only way forward.
There's guys over in the UK that have families of birds 40+ years without an out cross.
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Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
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Last Edited by on Jan 13, 2008 12:44 PM
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elopez
354 posts
Jan 13, 2008
11:52 AM
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Thats right Paul. Nicely put.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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ezeedad
263 posts
Jan 13, 2008
12:35 PM
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Wayne,
Thanks for your great explanation. It is sort of like having a bunch of identical twins.. they are so
close genetically that they anticipate each others thoughts.. they finish each others sentences, etc.
Even eat the same..same stamina.. wingbeat... nice...!!
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W@yne
933 posts
Jan 13, 2008
12:40 PM
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Paul
That is right on the button you've hit the nail.
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Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
=====================================
Last Edited by on Jan 13, 2008 12:42 PM
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rollermanx0
141 posts
Jan 13, 2008
12:46 PM
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I THINK IT DEPENDS ON YOU AND YOUR BIRDS AND HOW MUCH KNOWLEGDE YOU HAVE ABOUT THE WAY THEY HAVE ALREADY BEEN BRED.... I BREED CLOSE AND FAR JUST TO PROTECT MY FUTURE!
IT'S LIKE A SCIENCE, YOU GOTTA GET YOUR FRANKENSTEIN ON..LOL!
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rOLLerManx0
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rollermanx0
147 posts
Jan 13, 2008
3:49 PM
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THIS IS ONE OF MY REALLY GOOD COCKS BRED OFF OF FULL BROTHER AND SISTER....I GUESS IT DEPENDS ON YOUR FAMILY???
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rOLLerManx0
Last Edited by on Jan 13, 2008 3:50 PM
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Spin City USA
8 posts
Jan 13, 2008
8:55 PM
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As to the question of how many times can you in breed bro x sis, KGB has breed full bro x sis that came off of full bro x sis matings several times with much success. He said that you have to be able to spot the degenerate differences and know when to bring in the outcross for the hybred vigor.
So you really have to study and know your birds and what you
want to acomplish with your matings. Good luck.
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
382 posts
Jan 14, 2008
8:36 AM
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LUIS inbreeding is good but for "THE RIGHT REASON" .
ROLLERMAX----SPIN CITY---good post.
Reality, alot of these birds or families have been line bred, in bred already.
There is nothing wrong with outcrossing heres the thing ,you already know IT IS ABOUT GENETICS. The quality traits that one possess already in percentage is what you have to pursue for in percentage wise also in the outcross family your looking at or need. That will also put you in track quicker. So research,investigate, and question breeders or look into the familes of theirs before you do anything.
R-LUNA
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3757
488 posts
Jan 14, 2008
10:19 AM
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Rollerman and spincity - I also have had some of the greatest success with brother and sister matings and it does depend on the family as you stated!!
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Spin City USA
9 posts
Jan 14, 2008
7:55 PM
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Like Roller man said it's a science, and W@yne said it best,
I had to write those down as I use the same ideas, but I had never expressed it the way he did. I have been out of the game for a few years as I was focused on breeding horses
and have a family of horses that are intensly line bred. I used to fly in the CCRC with Jack Meyers,KGB,Crystal Palace
in the Modesto area. Need to get back to where I can be competive again, so it's back to the stock loft.
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