Square
67 posts
Jan 21, 2008
12:29 PM
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Here is a question, i want someones opion on this. i have never been a pedegree kinda guy, outta 100 birds a year i only raise 20 pedegree birds. However i here people say i have this guys bird's or that guys birds and have all this paper work but have been working with the birds for 5years+. when do the birds become yours? let's say for example you got some full breed Jacks, and you have been working on them for 7years without crossing, are they still Jack's?. also lets say Jack's originally came from Pensom when did they become his?, the same for all the other big names. so when do we start takin the credit for the birds we produce from all thease big names?? I personally have been using a "Coloney" breeding setup, this means that i have 8pair in a open loft the 8 cocks go back on cock and the same with the hen's. this has worked out well for me over the years as all the birds are pretti much the same. however I can still produce pediegree birds... what are your thoughts...
Square...
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quickspin
259 posts
Jan 21, 2008
12:59 PM
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First of all every one has different opinions on this subject. So you will get different ones and they all will be correct to a degree.
I believe ones you pick from the air and start breeding them they are yours. You will not breed the same as the breeder you got them from. Both of you have different taste and you will be breeding different ways right from the start.
Unless the breeder gave you a pair and you left that pair alone. But ones you pick from the air is yours and no one else.
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SALAS LOFT
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PR_rollers
391 posts
Jan 21, 2008
1:00 PM
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The birds become mine once i put my bands on them .once i breed them i can truly say they are mine,right now i have what they created with their breeding stragedies -
or when i create my team because i put those birds together to make a team..I'm the manager trainer now...if they do bad they are mine and if they do good they are mine...once those name bands are change to my name..they are mine..--------good point Sal,
Ralph....
Last Edited by on Jan 21, 2008 1:01 PM
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Flipmode
68 posts
Jan 21, 2008
2:00 PM
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Right on the money PR_ROLLERS!
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Oldfart
422 posts
Jan 21, 2008
2:17 PM
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You can save years of hard work by purchasing birds from the right source. You can also destroy years of hard work by mishandeling these same birds. Once they are in your loft and under your management, they become your responsibility. Good, bad, or other wise, they belong to you and to you alone, don't blame the breeder should things go wrong!! On the other hand if you benefit from his hard work, feel grateful!!
JMHO, Thom
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washington86
176 posts
Jan 21, 2008
2:23 PM
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They become yours if them eggs hatch at your place.
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parlorfancier916
472 posts
Jan 21, 2008
4:02 PM
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they become yours as soon as you buy them lol, but they will take your name as soon as they hatch at your house, but truth is, all the birmingham rollers date back to pensoms for majority of those in the united states
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Nrhoua (Doua) Xiong
4581 25th ave. sacramento C.A. 95820
http://freewebs.com/parlorrollers
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MGS LOFT
38 posts
Jan 21, 2008
6:05 PM
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IMO, WHAT EVER U PRODUCE IN UR LOFT IS URS TO GET CREDIT FOR......BUT WHAT ABOUT PEOPLE THAT TAKE BIRDS TO SHOWS THAT ARE NOT THERES!!!BUT WIN PRICES WITH THEM,THERE JUST LIEN TO THEMSELFS......AND THATS BS
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rollerman132
213 posts
Jan 21, 2008
6:12 PM
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From the time you bring them home, they become yours,with one catch, if you breed them pure from one source, then you have to give the originator of that strain his props, by saying Joe Blows family of Norm Reed birds, Joe Blows family of Higgins birds, etc. The day you cross them with another family, they become yours 100%, because now you’re the originator of that strain. Maybe some of us feel that our name doesn’t mean a hill of beans yet, and we haven’t earned the right to drop the name of originator.JMHO
Last Edited by on Jan 21, 2008 6:14 PM
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Square
73 posts
Jan 21, 2008
6:20 PM
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yea big hommie MGS i agree 100% they are the same as the guys that say i have pure some "old fanciers" birds. I guess if the fancier left some kind of recipe, to produce super birds, it would be diffrent. I enjoy the fact that if my birds bad i have myself to blame. the same holds true for my sucess, don't really want to attribute it to some big name, however would attribute it all to the "Ideal" set forth by the greats in this hobbie now, and before me.
Square.
Last Edited by on Jan 21, 2008 6:21 PM
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Skylineloft
981 posts
Jan 21, 2008
6:44 PM
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If you where a dog breeder and bred two pure bred dogs together that you did not breed, AKC. Would that dog be considered yours ? LOL......YES. I think the same applies here.
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Ray
Breeding Quality Spinners,
"One Roller At A Time".
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Square
75 posts
Jan 21, 2008
6:52 PM
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right on thanx. I was just lookin for some insight..
Square..
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MGS LOFT
39 posts
Jan 21, 2008
7:36 PM
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THATS RIGHT SKYLINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last Edited by on Jan 21, 2008 7:36 PM
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smoke747
571 posts
Jan 21, 2008
8:38 PM
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the birds you bred are yours but the line came from someone else even though some of the birds did not come from a specific breeder. concentrate on breeding the best possible birds you can regardless of who bred them. you'll look in your loft one day an realize that you have bred an outstanding family of spinners which you can call yours and be proud.
some did not give my smoke birds credit because they knew nothing about them. funny how some things change.
smoke747
Last Edited by on Jan 21, 2008 8:55 PM
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Square
84 posts
Jan 21, 2008
8:44 PM
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Thanx smoke and as you have said i look in my loft and feel proud daily, i am truly living the dream. i have seen alot of people's birds and they have some great's just want to reflect the same...
Square..
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CSRA
1172 posts
Jan 21, 2008
11:56 PM
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I agree with smoke good job smoke and good post
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pat66
110 posts
Jan 22, 2008
4:18 AM
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They are yours, but I feel if you should keep the line pure you should @ least humble yourself and mention who helped you get where you are.
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Pat
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Bundee
27 posts
Jan 22, 2008
9:41 AM
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Just what I was thinking Pat, There yours once you start breeding them in your Loft but give recognition to those who helped GET YOU STARTED WITH WHAT YOU WANT IN YOUR BIRDS..
BUNDEE
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Square
94 posts
Jan 22, 2008
10:05 AM
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Oyea, I fermly believe in that, My foundation bird's on one side came from a person who ive known sense i was 7 in Venice Ca, getting my first birds, and the other was a excellent Gentelman and Rollerman, Rex Clark from Orland, Ca. Without the two above mentioned, and a whole host of quality rollerpeople caring for my birds I woulden't be where I am today...Thanx again to all!!!
Square.
Last Edited by on Jan 22, 2008 10:07 AM
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fhtfire
1207 posts
Jan 22, 2008
10:18 AM
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This is a question that comes up over and over. This is an easy way to think about it..they are your birds once you have bred from birds you have flown and picked from the air....or cross with a different strain or family or make the decision to what pairs go with what. The latter is a gray area...I don't count birds from the first round my birds....until I pick from the air and make my own breeding decisions.
Lets say that I got a 4 pairs of birds from Tony...I breed them.....those first rounds to me are not my birds...even if I picked the pairs....because that first round is from the original..Ruby Roller stock.....now when I fly out that first round and pull birds from the air and start breeding ....then the offspring from those birds I consider mine.
Now if you cross two strains the the first round is yours period...and from then on out they are yours. I cross Morts and Rubys...so all the offspring from those pairings are my "Flash over" strain...but if I put any of the original paris I got back from Tony back together...that first round is Ruby Rollers.....because they are from original stock.
SO here is what I say....my birs are my "flashover" strain that originated from Ruby and Mort family of birds.....Right now...all my pairs are crossed this year...and all the offspring will be my line of brids...some for sure because they are 2nd and 3rd generation crosses.
Hope that this is as clear as mud..
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Square
96 posts
Jan 22, 2008
10:42 AM
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Yea I agree with you as well as some other posts, i have been working on my two families independant of one another for 10years+ now. picking the best and the qualites i perfer and been off to the races. I know Rex looks down on me at times and says "How did u getum so small". LOL as they were quite abit larger. hommerlike LOL. yea I feel proud of them..thanx for your time guys..
Square.
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3757
511 posts
Jan 22, 2008
12:27 PM
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This is an interesting post and as Salas loft stated you will get many diverse opinions on this subject matter. One key aspect is does the person use birds occasionally from the originator of the strain? An example, Bruce Cooper sent me 6 youngsters in 2006 and I have used these birds into birds that I have 4-5 generations off of his original stock. Are they his or mine when I interject birds from him back to progeny that come down from his strain? It all comes to what the individual believes. Bill Pensom still referred to the birds he imported in 1965 that were bred by Ollie Harris as Bellfield blood even though Harry Bellfield had been dead almost 30 years. If you have a pedigree with 3-5 generations of your breeding the birds are technically yours. I have heard of instances, I do not know why, where certain individuals of notoriety would actually mate birds every year for individuals. In this case the birds are those of the person actually doing the mating in my opinion. It really does not mean a hill of beans if the birds do not do what you want them to do!
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Square
100 posts
Jan 22, 2008
1:02 PM
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That's right, Thanx guys.
Square.
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0016
41 posts
Jan 22, 2008
9:26 PM
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Success has many fathers;but Failure is an ORPHAN?
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smoke747
585 posts
Jan 22, 2008
10:29 PM
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0016,
always
smoke747
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Square
107 posts
Jan 22, 2008
10:43 PM
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Hay smoke were you able to see some of my birds? also how is that old grumpy man from Marina Delray..???
Square.
Last Edited by on Jan 22, 2008 10:44 PM
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Customkev
7 posts
Jan 23, 2008
7:52 AM
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Hello All,
Here is my take on this topic for what it's worth...
The family of birds I have had for the past 11yrs,I started with some birds that I both picked from the air,and baught as youngsters at an auction and flew out and then stocked 2 out of 11... These birds were all called english birds from the fellas I baught them from... Some came off 2nd generation imports others off 3rd and forth generation imports... I agree with once my bands are on the birds they also have my name attached... If some one inquires about their linage I state they are an english based family I call the "Monrollers"... Good or bad they are my birds... Kev
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Square
121 posts
Jan 23, 2008
8:46 AM
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Hay would you happen to know the family of "English they go back to,???
Square.
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rollermanx0
211 posts
Jan 23, 2008
9:06 AM
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IF YOU GET BIRDS FROM SOMEONE AND DO BAD WITH THEM THEY WILL NOT TAKE CREDIT FOR THOSE BIRDS ,BUT IF YOU DO WELL THEN YOU SHOULD GIVE UP THE CREDIT??????
I DON'T KNOW...I THINK EVERYONE GOT THIER BIRDS FROM SOMEONE WHO GOT 'EM FROM SOMEONE..SO YOU NEED TO FOCUS ON BUILDING YOUR NAME AS WELL AS NOT FORGETTING WHERE THEY CAME FROM..BUT WHEN YOU SPEND YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY ON SOMETHING IT'S YOURS BRO!
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rOLLerManx0
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Square
122 posts
Jan 23, 2008
9:32 AM
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That's right, yea i just thought it would be a good topic. as in the past people would ask me where did i buy my rollers from and i would reply i Built my rollers. so i know they are mine.. patience hard work and consistensy pays off in the long run. thanx Rollerman
Square..
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J T
140 posts
Jan 23, 2008
11:40 AM
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Great = mine.
Bad = not my birds.
You feed them, You breed them,
You band them, they are your birds!!
Every family has ups & downs.
Give credit where credit is due.
JT
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