bigwilly
251 posts
Jan 25, 2008
5:20 AM
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does anyone have that color balancing article written by Steve Agent?
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CSRA
1194 posts
Jan 25, 2008
8:42 AM
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color balancing is a very interesting subject and controversial
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bigwilly
253 posts
Jan 25, 2008
8:55 AM
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csra why controversial?
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CSRA
1202 posts
Jan 25, 2008
9:52 AM
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some people think its not true some do
Last Edited by on Jan 25, 2008 9:52 AM
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quickspin
290 posts
Jan 25, 2008
10:15 AM
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This is true on his family.
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SALAS LOFT
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3757
515 posts
Jan 25, 2008
10:31 AM
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I do not think color has anything to do with the performance of a bird. The color gene and the performing gene are different. It is like saying that a human beings color has a factor on how fast a person can run!
Last Edited by on Jan 25, 2008 10:40 AM
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Windjammer Loft
178 posts
Jan 25, 2008
1:41 PM
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Why is it that only roller guys have so much concern about COLOR balancing?? When I raced pigeons in years past,that was never an issue.. Just curious.
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
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Shadow
16 posts
Jan 25, 2008
3:31 PM
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Observe your coloured soft feathered roller on a bright sunny day against a self coloured bird,observe again under different conditions overcast,dull,damp,the white coloured will look superior on those bright sunny dsys,the self coloured bird in other conditions,all things being equal
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quickspin
291 posts
Jan 25, 2008
3:53 PM
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I don't think color defines performance but it does tell them apart.
If one family gives you reds and are frequent and your other family gives you dark checks with speed you cross the two. It has nothing to do with color just that the family produce that color. Now if you go to another loft it might be the opposite it all depends how they were bred.
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SALAS LOFT
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3757
516 posts
Jan 25, 2008
3:55 PM
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CSRA - I race homers and I am life member of the AU. To answer your question the color of the homer means nothing. There have been whites that out raced blue bars and checkers and vice versa.
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CSRA
1212 posts
Jan 25, 2008
3:58 PM
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oh ok sounds good they were pure white i heard the pure white ones homing ability was not as good
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quickspin
292 posts
Jan 25, 2008
3:59 PM
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I purchase 3 Roller and it had on the band AU 98 0250 and AU 98 0249 AU 98 0247, Laron do you know who uses that number. This were some excellent birds.
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SALAS LOFT
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CSRA
1213 posts
Jan 25, 2008
3:59 PM
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quickspin is color indicative of character?
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CSRA
1215 posts
Jan 25, 2008
4:07 PM
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Laron can you explain it to me
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CSRA
1216 posts
Jan 25, 2008
4:09 PM
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wow lol
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CSRA
1217 posts
Jan 25, 2008
4:10 PM
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i can't read that good wow
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CSRA
1218 posts
Jan 25, 2008
4:14 PM
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expression and character are they the same quickspin
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quickspin
295 posts
Jan 25, 2008
4:19 PM
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Laron and Arnold would explain it very good with detail. I'm not good at that.
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SALAS LOFT
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CSRA
1220 posts
Jan 25, 2008
4:20 PM
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sounds good to me
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Velo99
1554 posts
Jan 25, 2008
5:18 PM
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As far as expression, if the bird looks like you just scared the crap out of him most likely he is unstable.
I have a cockbird in the foster side who has character. The other day I dropped a nest bowl onto the floor of the loft, BAM!!. He came to the opening of his box with that WHOO WHOO sound they make, looking around the box, then at me. His look said to me" Hey! Are you crazy or do I need to come over there and tighten you up?" Thats character.
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V99
Keep the best. Eat the rest.
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3757
517 posts
Jan 25, 2008
5:25 PM
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I am doing well in some of the futurities. Quick spin, let me know the other letters on your au bands, ex LA au, compton au etc and I can get the information for you.
Last Edited by on Jan 26, 2008 6:04 AM
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bigwilly
254 posts
Jan 25, 2008
6:05 PM
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Hey guys thanks for the response.
Steve, I see what you mean.lol
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3757
518 posts
Jan 26, 2008
6:19 AM
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As I mentioned in one of my above post comparing the color of pigeons to the different colors of the one human race melanin is the coloring material for the feathers of a bird as in a human’s skin color. It has nothing to do with performance at all. However, feather quality does go hand in hand with a bird’s flight. Have you ever, when you were a kid, taped a bird’s wing and when the tape came off the feathers were in disarray? The bird had all of his feathers but he or she could not fly well because of this. It helps the bird in flight only.
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Windjammer Loft
180 posts
Jan 26, 2008
6:54 AM
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CSRA.....as far as I remember color had nothing to do with race birds. Whites,blue bars,blue checks,grizles,splashes,
silvers and birds with white flights all were birds in the $$$$ at times.I can never at any time remember that"Quote" ever coming into our conversations. Color meant absolute nothing back then,just like Quickspin and 3757 mentioned also. I think that color balancing is just a term used by the rollers guys, if Iam not mistaken.
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Jan 26, 2008 8:06 AM
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3757
520 posts
Jan 26, 2008
6:56 AM
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The mental inclination has to do with spin and feather deals with flight. I have fought some big guys in tournaments and many people say that a big guy is slow. Well, there are some big guys that are as fast as the small guy and have better ground techniques. Is this the norm? Maybe not but we cannot say a big guy is slow because you may get knocked out! Same with our birds.
Also Paul, I would like to call you as I did not know that you raced also.
Last Edited by on Jan 26, 2008 6:58 AM
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Windjammer Loft
181 posts
Jan 26, 2008
7:12 AM
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3757.......I raced from 1980 until the early 90's. My work interfered with my birds......and family comes came FIRST. I'd enjoy the chat too.
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Jan 26, 2008 7:15 AM
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CSRA
1227 posts
Jan 26, 2008
7:25 AM
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3757 sounds good just trying to spice the site up
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3757
521 posts
Jan 26, 2008
8:53 AM
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CSRA - Understood. Steve here is another good point on expression and character. I know you have seen families of pigeons that has great expression, character, and feather and on and on but these characteristics do not give them an advantage in spinning any better than your present birds. In fact you may know of families that cannot spin as well but look great phonotypically. It is in the motor. However, I would prefer an awesome motor with a nice body and frame.
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Drama Side
93 posts
Jan 26, 2008
9:03 AM
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Steve I knew what you was doing LOL!!!! 3757 I agree
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CSRA
1234 posts
Jan 26, 2008
9:11 AM
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sounds good just having fun
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John
161 posts
Jan 26, 2008
9:22 AM
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For the people that says that color doesn't make a difference. How many of you would breed Grizzle to Grizzle? I'm not talking for one generation but continue to do this thru out many generations?
John
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CSRA
1235 posts
Jan 26, 2008
9:28 AM
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Very good question
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3757
522 posts
Jan 26, 2008
9:53 AM
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John - I do not breed for color but if every year my best spinner was a grizzle or my best producer was a grizzle I would do it! Why not? I had a family of white grizzle bandits (racers) at my old house. Probably the line has 10-15 generations of grizzles. The only issue with grizzle is that it is dominant if you do not like the color it will take over the loft but if you do not mind it does not matter.
Drama side - I know also!
Last Edited by on Jan 26, 2008 9:54 AM
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CSRA
1236 posts
Jan 26, 2008
10:03 AM
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3757 good job
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3757
523 posts
Jan 26, 2008
10:24 AM
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Thanks. Also John, if my memory serves me correct there are only three colors Ash Red, Blue, Brown, modifiers and 4 patterns.
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smoke747
629 posts
Jan 26, 2008
11:55 AM
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Laron, you are right. I have bred grizzle to grizzle with no problems. If you keep selecting the best performers along with exp, type, and character it should not make a difference. the same goes for blue chks, rec.red any other color.
smoke747
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smoke747
631 posts
Jan 26, 2008
12:07 PM
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The reason I think white birds got a bad rapp was due to guys trying to breed for the all white roller using any pigeon as long as it was white. The results= garbage. Even Pensom had a family of pure whites that could spin and produce true.
3757, the white bird you selected at the SGVS show was out of a red self and a dun grizzle which has grizzle all in the back ground on both parents. If you closed you eyes and handled that bird you would not know it was white.
smoke747
Last Edited by on Jan 26, 2008 12:24 PM
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3757
524 posts
Jan 26, 2008
2:08 PM
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Smoke - There were a lot off great pigeons in that show. I must have held that white bird ten times but he was a dandy. That is a perfect example of an exellent grizzle pigeon.
Quickspin that stands for the compton racing pigeon club. I will check on who had that series.
Last Edited by on Jan 26, 2008 2:09 PM
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Mount Airy Lofts
401 posts
Jan 26, 2008
2:12 PM
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Thanks for the articles. Nice to read about Rollers again. I hear it a lot from some of the old timers "every bird has its place" .... what does that really mean? Do you put a bumper on a stiff... Do you put a poor kitter on a excellent kitter... Do you put a Low flier with a High Flier... etc. Why not just stock the best?
Just like color balance or Character balance, etc. I am starting to believe that some times, we look at the simplest thing and make it more difficult than it really is. I am not saying that breeding quality Rollers is easy, that is furthest from the truth. We have to be at the top of our game to breed quality birds. All tho, some times, I think we like to over think things a little too much.
What happened to the trial and error method. Pick from the air and mate them up. Just make sure they resemble each other in the air and on the ground. If they produce a low percentage of quality youngsters, move them on to different mates. Rotate them until you find the right mate. If you never do, put them back up where they belong. We have too many W. H. Pensoms now a days. The man was one of a kind, there can be no replacements.
Every body has their theories. Put to test those that makes sense to us and junk the rest...
Breeding season is right around the corner. I am going over what my pairs produced for me last year in the air. Looks like only one pair will stay together, the rest looks to see a different mate this season.
Just my take,
Thor
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smoke747
639 posts
Jan 27, 2008
12:53 AM
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Cool, clear outlook. Good job Thor.
keep it simple.
smoke747
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Windjammer Loft
183 posts
Jan 27, 2008
3:34 AM
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3757.......This what you mean about the Bandit(racers). These are afew of mine. The 2 mostly white(in front)are youngsters. But,the grizling is starting to show up more and more.I have 1 that is pure white,she is right behind the youngsters. Also I have afew white rollers that are my best spinners
href="http://s216.photobucket.com/albums/cc65/hdwindjammer/?action=view¤t=Picture012.jpg" target="_blank">
These are nestmates:
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Jan 27, 2008 3:53 AM
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Windjammer Loft
184 posts
Jan 27, 2008
3:52 AM
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These are some of my white rollers:
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
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3757
526 posts
Jan 27, 2008
6:58 AM
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Paul -Those white bandits are great racers. The birds look great!
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Windjammer Loft
185 posts
Jan 27, 2008
7:31 AM
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3757........their good long distance birds. Thanks
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Jan 27, 2008 7:32 AM
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gotspin7
2280 posts
Mar 07, 2009
8:53 PM
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Laron, What happened to your bandit racers?
Thor, GREAT post! Keep up the good work..
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Sal Ortiz
Last Edited by on Mar 08, 2009 7:22 AM
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CSRA
1749 posts
Mar 08, 2009
6:57 PM
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whats up Sal
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