smoke747
723 posts
Feb 02, 2008
12:57 AM
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in regards to the Ideal. The ideal roller/spinner is the standard for excellence and ought to bred towards right.If that is the case, then the blur would surpass the ideal. The blur is the highest degree of spinning displayed by the birmingham roller. It is so fast that it seems to disappear or blend into the sky. Now what colors would be able to do this? you have probably seen more ideals than you think.
ideal- one regarded as a model worthy of imitation.
blur- something moving too quickly to be clearly perceived.
with this in mind, how many blurs do you think you've seen in the birmingham roller?
I've seen about 2 or 3 and 1 was bred by me.
smoke747
Last Edited by on Feb 02, 2008 12:58 AM
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Shadow
29 posts
Feb 02, 2008
4:07 AM
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I have had the pleasure of seeing two,both hens,two different loft locations,unrelated,sadly neither bred or owned by me,once seen never forgotten,both would roll 10 to 15 feet only,if you blinked slowly,you would miss it,brillant these would be my definition of ideal roller. Again only my opinion.
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
411 posts
Feb 02, 2008
6:01 AM
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Keith I have seen numerous of blurs and at other lofts and witnessed by others.
How about this one the bird who starts or gets into the roll with high velocity and tight to about 20'--30' feet and from that point seems to get even faster and shrinks smaller or tighter,,finishing to about 50'-60'feet. Like if it had put it into overdrive..(shrinkers)
Now these kind of birds ,,I have seen only about three in my roller life. AWASOME, AWASOME sight to see and will never forget it.
R-LUNA
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kcfirl
266 posts
Feb 02, 2008
6:05 AM
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Keith,
I've never seen a pigeon dissapear so I guess I've never seen the best.
In regards to color, let me just say that I believe there's a reason most of the birds flown in cloudy old England have white flights.
Regards,
Ken
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bigwilly
311 posts
Feb 02, 2008
6:20 AM
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Hey Keith when I read this thread, Paul Gomez came to mind. Living a few houses from Paul, I had the opportunity to see many of his kits fly. I can remember seeing his birds spin so fast that they would not even leave the kit. It was like spining and flying at the same time. In your oppinion, would this be considerd a blur? I would like to see how Paul would comment on this question
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3757
562 posts
Feb 02, 2008
8:18 AM
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The ideal bird for me spins so fast and is in the shrinking category. These pigeons do not show any wings and stand still for the first two seconds and drop slowly. If a birds blurs but still show some wings they are not the ideal. It should show no visible wings and have the appearance of a perfect small marble or circle for me to be called ideal. These are rare pigeons!
Last Edited by on Feb 02, 2008 9:55 AM
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Flipmode
89 posts
Feb 02, 2008
10:33 AM
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To me the black w/f's Blur the best. Their wings totally vanish and the bird looks like a black smuge falling! Dark check selfs look awsome blurring too. I've seen a couple but have'nt bred one of those jems myself.
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ezeedad
299 posts
Feb 02, 2008
1:41 PM
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Thanks Will,
I don't like to say these kinds of things too much, because people will not believe you if you say it about your own birds... But,I have had some in the shrinker category, and one that spun in place without dropping for about a second before it started to descend... Maybe you saw that bird or something similar to it.
Gomez
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smoke747
724 posts
Feb 02, 2008
6:01 PM
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I agree 100% on the shrinker. I once herd someone say that birds that start at one speed and get faster are culls and should not be bred from.
Do you know how hard it is to run fast and be able to increase your speed from start to finish. not cross country. like the 50 or 100 yard dash. not easy
smoke747
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rollermanx0
302 posts
Feb 02, 2008
6:15 PM
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well for me..i saw a blur at your house in 07' smoke747...
i saw a couple of the fastest birds i've ever seen in 07' at Norm Reeds house just on a regular day..lol!
and i bred one in 07' that was absolutely a blur AND HERE SHE IS...LOL!
YOU KNOW I HAD TO SHOW HER..LOL!
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rOLLerManx0
Last Edited by on Feb 02, 2008 6:16 PM
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smoke747
728 posts
Feb 02, 2008
6:18 PM
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Yeah she was a dandy.
smoke747
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rollermanx0
303 posts
Feb 02, 2008
6:19 PM
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whats up...Johnny Smith (idealspin) is the guy ..he knows everything about everything!!
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rOLLerManx0
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rollermanx0
304 posts
Feb 02, 2008
6:20 PM
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SMOKE747....HERE'S ANOTHER DANDY.
REMEMBER HER...LOL!
i just saw babies of her that will blow you away!
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rOLLerManx0
Last Edited by on Feb 02, 2008 6:21 PM
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WaTtS UpP
153 posts
Feb 02, 2008
6:21 PM
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THANKS KEITH ABOUT THE INFO HEY I WAS KICKING IT WITH ED TODAY ALL DAY HES A REAL COOL A** DUDE MAN HE CARRIES HIM SELF REAL SMOOTH HE WAS SCHOOLING ME ON KNOWLEDGE ON HOW TO PICK OUT A BIRD AND WHATS MY SOFT AND HARD COLORS
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Watts uppp homeboy
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BERD
12 posts
Feb 02, 2008
6:33 PM
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KEITH WHAT IT DO.....................
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Scott Campbell
2 posts
Feb 02, 2008
9:35 PM
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For myself I have my feet planted firmly on planet earth, the exceptional birds are just that "exceptions" no one breeds them at will or in quanity.
For myself I am looking to build teams of solid first class birds, and here and there you might see an exceptional bird when all is right, that is the true test of ones stud, not one bird.
Scott
Last Edited by on Feb 02, 2008 9:36 PM
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smoke747
729 posts
Feb 02, 2008
10:14 PM
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hEY wATTS, that dun (dilute)above is the full sister to your cream hen.
rollermanx0 are you ready to send her home?
smoke747
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Scott Campbell
8 posts
Feb 02, 2008
10:53 PM
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"The ideal bird for me spins so fast and is in the shrinking category. These pigeons do not show any wings and stand still for the first two seconds and drop slowly. If a birds blurs but still show some wings they are not the ideal. It should show no visible wings and have the appearance of a perfect small marble or circle for me to be called ideal. These are rare pigeons! "
Usualy when the wings blur out two things are happening , one is it is a fast pigeon rolling off balance where the wings appear to blur , on off days when the speed isn't there they are poor style, or it is a white flyted bird under the right back bround.
If the balance is there the wings appear as straight lines and don't blur, these are my ideal and the hardest to breed.
My favorite are the true H where they look like a tennis ball with thin straight lines on the side,you only get this with very a very fast bird and perfect balance,I find these are extreamly hard to produce, far harder than a fast slightly off balance bird where the wings blur.
Scott
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nicksiders
2524 posts
Feb 02, 2008
11:04 PM
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Is the bird a blur because of its extreme velocity or is it a blur because of wing position. The X type wing position roller will appear to have a higher velocity than an H of equal velocity.
My opinion...........
Nick Siders
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Scott Campbell
12 posts
Feb 02, 2008
11:12 PM
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Nick, I have never seen a bird blur , it is a pretty loose term.
Scott
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nicksiders
2525 posts
Feb 02, 2008
11:17 PM
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Yea, it is a term that is often misused
Nick Siders
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Missouri-Flyer
1252 posts
Feb 03, 2008
6:40 AM
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I guess I have been under the wrong kits throughout my visits to lofts. I have seen some fast spinners, but nothing that blurred..Maybe it falls back on the person looking at the bird, and the clarity of eye sight.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
412 posts
Feb 03, 2008
7:28 AM
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Nick ---I agree with you that the x wing bird is faster than the H pattern bird. To me tha H wing bird is with less velocity but a nice style.
Scott ,,,I do disagree with you that blur or no wing showing has defects or is of off balance bird and that a exceptional bird may pop up sometime ,,that may be true in some strains in low pecentage. How could a quality bird,,blur or no wing bird like that have one or two faults??
R-LUNA
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Scott Campbell
15 posts
Feb 03, 2008
8:16 AM
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Richard, I knew that many would disagree, I'm a realist though, keep in mind though that if the illusion is pleasant to the eye than we are splitting hairs that probably shouldn't be split.
Scott
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
415 posts
Feb 03, 2008
8:41 AM
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Scott you are right about illusion.I picked that illsion when I read Grahm dexters(winners with spinners).I agree with you also about spliting hairs. To each there own.
R-LUNA
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rollermanx0
312 posts
Feb 03, 2008
10:16 AM
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well fellas i don't know what term to use but the pigeon that i'm holding above would roll from the front/middle of the kit and while every bird around her would spin and fall she would blaze in the center of the kit in one spot sitting still a couple of seconds before she would start falling towards the ground...then once she started to fall she would still burn 25' feet or so! i'm nowhere near being and expert on this subject but i have a very good line of spinners and what ever you call it ...this one was that!
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rOLLerManx0
Last Edited by on Feb 03, 2008 10:17 AM
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Scott Campbell
17 posts
Feb 03, 2008
10:40 AM
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On that same note Richard, that is why I will take good style with decent speed any day over a bird that is super fast on good days,if the bird has good Style it looks good far more days than birds that are just fast.
In my book,ballbearing smooth style comes before speed,allways will,but decent speed also has to comliment them.
Scott
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rollermanx0
313 posts
Feb 03, 2008
11:22 AM
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i know what you mean Scott...i love to see that smooth spin! it's nothing like it!
i found though that if you breed from less pair you get more quality spinners..
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rOLLerManx0
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Scott Campbell
21 posts
Feb 03, 2008
11:32 AM
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i found though that if you breed from less pair you get more quality spinners..
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rOLLerManx0
Yea , that is a revelation that finaly sunk into my thick skull,good one.
Scott
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bigwilly
343 posts
Feb 03, 2008
12:15 PM
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I believe that you should breed alot of pairs because of the BOP. We all know that are birds can be taken out of the air at any given time. If you dont breed alot or have alot of pairs down you just might end up with nothing.
Is it fair to say the more birds you breed you have a better chance at getting that special"BLUR" one?
Last Edited by on Feb 03, 2008 12:18 PM
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rollermanx0
316 posts
Feb 03, 2008
1:56 PM
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i hear you big willy but the only problem with that is unless you got alot of proven pair down you will be breeding just to be breeding if you foster out of 5 to 10 solid pair you won't miss a beat...
your chances of getting a superstar are better breeding out of your best pairs not just alot of pairs.we have to remember that less is more and it's about quality not quantity......
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rOLLerManx0
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smoke747
739 posts
Feb 03, 2008
11:28 PM
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All of the birds that I have seen blur were either blue bar or open pattern blue chks against a blue sky.
maybe an illusion?
smoke747
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Shadow
34 posts
Feb 04, 2008
1:51 AM
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A lot of different slants on this blur roller,mine being a bird that has begun and finished its roll in almost the same instance,with no warning,its just a happening,when watching the kit relevent to weather conditions,wind etc,you can gauge when more often than not when birds are going to roll, break,etc and eight times out of ten you are correct,your senses are tuned in and prewarned,not so with blur quite often it can go unnoticed its so quick and so sudden,you may be left doubting your sight as to what happened,also of opinion re colour,two birds equal ability,one self coloured other light colour,dark cloudy day,light colour will look smoother in roll than self colour,just my opinion.
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W@yne
1025 posts
Feb 04, 2008
1:16 PM
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Scotty, Shadow you both are correct in my opinion.
Good posts guys an interesting worth while subject. Smoke good post.
R luna.
I have a bird that starts the roll fast and speeds up as it gets deeper in the roll it is a pleasure to watch i know exactly what you are talking about i wish i had a kit of them.
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Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
=====================================
Last Edited by on Feb 04, 2008 1:23 PM
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
416 posts
Feb 04, 2008
3:29 PM
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Wayne,, RIGHT ON!!!!That type of bird and roll is rare.It would be nice to have abundance of those . I hope the bird works out well for you for the stock loft
R-LUNA
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spinningdemon
141 posts
Jan 02, 2009
6:31 AM
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I have seen very few of these birds but I have one in my kit now a little red grizzle hen that my good friend Bryan gave me this fall. She was a late july hatch and started rolling about 3 weeks ago but this little bird just blurs up the sky I have seen her roll for a couple of seconds and drop at most 5 feet. This little grizzle hen is the best that I have had in my loft for quit some time.
This is a photo of her jsut finishing the molt.
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David Curneal
Performance breeds since 1973
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winwardrollers
73 posts
Jan 02, 2009
9:01 AM
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"Is the bird a blur because of its extreme velocity or is it a blur because of wing position. The X type wing position roller will appear to have a higher velocity than an H of equal velocity" I would have to agree with you Nick Siders, but would have to add the... A framer with the X type.. but mainly the A style.
The H wingers have a smooth roll that is pleasing to the eye were the A style bird has a more violent roll that we associate with speed.
I'm thinking birds blur mostly for the fact... because of the background behind the bird. Lavenders seem to blur out in a light sky were blacks seem to blur in darker skies for example.
When I first got in this Roller hobby I had birds that blurred out...now I have birds that I can see the wing position on...It is either that my birds got slower or my eyes have been train over the years to see the wings better. I still like the term "blur" to describe birds that roll with the A style and would say that X winger.. may.. blur from the side view.
Brad winward
Last Edited by on Jan 02, 2009 3:56 PM
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Sunflower
123 posts
Jan 02, 2009
10:35 AM
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Scott, I agree with you also. An H style with reasonable speed and ball bearing smoothness is my ideal. The appearance of blur may well be from wing position. It is nice but not as nice as an H style with above average speed. Enjoyed our conversation the other day by the way.
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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Velo99
2018 posts
Jan 02, 2009
1:34 PM
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Brad,
I have noticed the same thing. When I first started I couldnt even tell my birds apart. Now I can tell birds of the same marking by how they roll.
I think it is the same as anything that requires a "specialized" visualization. Baseball players hit off a pitching machine at 120 mph in practice. When Ol Pedro slings it down the pipe at 98 they smack it out of the park cuz it is slow to them after seeing the ball at 120.
Dale Jr of NASCAR fame said once during and interview his focus is so narrow, he can see a coin on the track at 190 mph. By the end of the race he can tell you the denomination and whether it is heads or tails. We need judges with that kind of ability,lol
Could that be why some guys see a blur and some dont?
v99
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V99
blue sky single beat
in cadance performing now
earth beckons the winged
drawn breath is let quickly forth
orchestral movement follows
___ ~_____
\__\_/-|_| \__\____
/()_)__48___()_)\__\
Last Edited by on Jan 02, 2009 1:37 PM
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