SpinZone
18 posts
Feb 07, 2008
12:04 AM
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I fly my kit birds for two seasons before I consider them for stock normally. As with any thing else there are exceptions to this rule, in my family of birds the exceptional hens far out number the exceptional cocks.
This being the case when an exceptional young cock comes along he is flown for about a year or so depending on when he came into the spin and then he is stocked for trial in the breeding loft.
Last Edited by on Feb 07, 2008 12:04 AM
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Shadow
47 posts
Feb 07, 2008
4:43 AM
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Never less than two seasons for hens,with using the Bull system myself most seasons.good to better roller hens is my requirement,but Cocks used on this system have to be a wee bit special,so they will fly on considerbly longer,but have seen improvements in some Cocks rolling ability up to three years old,they appear to have reached their maxim at this age.
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CSRA
1355 posts
Feb 07, 2008
8:03 AM
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Spin you will be lucky if u can fly a bird for 5 months lol a year sounds good to many bop's
Last Edited by on Feb 07, 2008 8:11 AM
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Sandy91, SA Region 3
64 posts
Feb 07, 2008
8:30 AM
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I agree on two seasons but when I get that exeptional roller I put it away immidiately never mind the age.Normaly I breed one, maybe two exeptional birds in a season, some seasons none but when I do I stock it. The rest are mostly good enough for the kit but theres always that one outstanding bird. This is just what I do.
Last Edited by on Feb 07, 2008 8:32 AM
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JMUrbon
345 posts
Feb 07, 2008
3:12 PM
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I Have birds in my stock loft that were flown for 5 years and some that didn't make it 2 years in the air. I would love to be able to fly them all for 3-4 years but with the increase in preditors over the years it ends up depending on the bird and just how much I think it will help me in the stock loft. Several years ago I pulled 6 young birds meaning less than 2 years old and stocked them. At the time the average age of my stock loft was 8 years old and these 6 birds were exceptional in every aspect and all have proved their worth to me. It all depends on the bird and the circomstances. Joe Urbon
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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nicksiders
2547 posts
Feb 07, 2008
3:20 PM
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Two seasons minimum.
Shadow - who are you?
Nick Siders
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Shadow
54 posts
Feb 08, 2008
8:01 AM
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Here we go Nick 62 year old living in Waterford City Eire,having kept and raced pigeons for a over 57 of those 62 years,with the rollers since 1979 to 1996,restarted back with rollers 18 months ago,was and still am always a believer in quality rolling, and then frequency,it appears that now the emphasis is on on frequency first,never was a conventional type,so quality is still my priority,good spinner/good racer ,they are the finished product,producing them for myself,and others with consistency is a much more complex issue,and to be able to do this on a fairly regular basis,is my ambition,if I can master this,or not,who can say,it wont be for want of trying. Would like two judges do each fly,one solely for quality marking,other for breaks,I think it make it a little easier and possibly fairer. All the best.
Last Edited by on Feb 08, 2008 8:02 AM
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nicksiders
2556 posts
Feb 08, 2008
11:40 AM
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Shadow,
I enjoy what you have to say. Your advise is solid and it got my interest...it seemed that I knew you or should know you, anyway
Thank you,
Nick Siders
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JMUrbon
364 posts
Feb 08, 2008
12:01 PM
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Idont know about everybody Shadow but I have flow competition for the better part of 25 years and most guys I know would never sacrafice quality for frequency. Certainly would lead to disaster in my mind. Quality has and always will come first. JMHO. Joe Urbon
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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smoke747
793 posts
Feb 08, 2008
12:04 PM
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Every now and then I will stock a bird from the nest(1 or 2)every other year. The ones in the kit have to give me at least afull year which is 2 seasons here.
smoke747
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Shadow
56 posts
Feb 08, 2008
1:26 PM
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J.M. I would not doubt your idealism re rollers for a second,or others,yet when I see that score/marked in a fly,it seems the likes of you and I and any others and our idealism re rollers is possibly like the dodo heading for extinction
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Scott
16 posts
Feb 08, 2008
2:59 PM
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I will pull a couple of rounds off of younger birds (12 mo. or so) for one reason or another, then put back in the kit to finish out.
Before I commit a bird to stock I want to be darn sure of what I am stocking.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Feb 08, 2008 3:00 PM
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ezeedad
325 posts
Feb 08, 2008
3:01 PM
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If the roller breeder is new to the game, it would probably be best that they fly their birds till they are sure of them. Then they will better understand what they are using.
Once the rollerman knows his stock, and rollers in general,the rules change.
At this point,I think that if a flyer seems to be better than what you know your breeders to be, then it would be wise to get it into the stock loft so that it can have the chance to produce better rollers yet.
This can be any time from fledging till years later, depending on your circumstances.
I have stocked birds right out of the nest and flown my breeders for years, too, before the BOP problem.
A birds value as a stock bird still has to be proven regardless of how it peformed.
Gomez
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Scott
17 posts
Feb 08, 2008
3:16 PM
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Paul,my birds are exceptionaly tight, the only thing that "I" can read is whether they have the potential or not, nothing more nothing less.
I am glad that you can do it, but for myself I see it as a way to loose alot of years of hard work , much of that hard work comes from prooving birds out and knowing exactly what they are made of.
For myself I put no value into a bird in stock that had no value in the air, I don't care how it produces, I look further that just the F-1 s
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Feb 08, 2008 3:19 PM
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JMUrbon
373 posts
Feb 08, 2008
3:21 PM
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I agree with you Scott. I have put alot of time into my stock loft and only feel I would be going backwards if I didnt continue in the same way I have built it to this point. JMHO. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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ezeedad
326 posts
Feb 08, 2008
4:59 PM
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Scott,
The way you put it I would have to agree with you too...
If a bird had no value in the air I wouldn't want to use it either. But I believe that what Pensom wrote about picking birds on the ground has a lot of value.
For many years I was a hard core flyer of my birds. At first I was stocking only about 2 or 3 per hundred that I flew. Then a "click pair" came along and I found that I could practically predict what their offspring would do. Still I didn't try stocking without flying them out.
Finally, years later I stocked a hen I really liked without flying her, and she turned out to be one of my best ever. I had been raising rollers for over 25 years at that time.
My way of insuring that my years of breeding are not lost is never to cross.
Paul
P.S. Scott I re-read what you wrote, and I don't understand as well as I would like to. Are you saying that you don't care if the bird produces so-so or even poorly as long as it was good in the air?.. because you would trust it more knowing what you saw it do? I respect your method..just curious..
Last Edited by on Feb 08, 2008 5:06 PM
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Scott
18 posts
Feb 08, 2008
5:42 PM
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P.S. Scott I re-read what you wrote, and I don't understand as well as I would like to. Are you saying that you don't care if the bird produces so-so or even poorly as long as it was good in the air?.. because you would trust it more knowing what you saw it do? I respect your method..just curious..
No Paul, that is not what I am saying at all, I won't keep a bird in stock unless it produces accross the board in decent percentages ,I am not interested in click matings to be honest.
I want it producing on what ever I throw it on,and I push birds back out to fly regular if I feel they didn't give me what I am looking for .
As for how I determine whether a bird is stock quality, first in the air where everything is evaluated from quality to how it handles the roll including how it handles stress to maintaining health and body wt.
As for Pensom and stocking off of the ground, I think many take him out of context,with that said there are paticular birds that I would never stock regardless of how good they are due to what I see on the ground
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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SiDLoVE
161 posts
Feb 08, 2008
5:48 PM
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Kinda simple know your prepotent birds. why so much hassle ?? Prepotent birds will reproduce ususally in high percentage . Those who know those birds will stock off the nest if needed if shortage... why try to make it more then it is?? O.k say you stock it and it doesnt reproduce? Then you refly it and breed at least till you find those high precentage birds that produce the goods. Might take time before u find them and know which are Prepotent .
sidLOVe*
Last Edited by on Feb 08, 2008 5:51 PM
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Sandy91, SA Region 3
143 posts
Feb 08, 2008
5:51 PM
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Sidlove help me out please. Prepotent?
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SiDLoVE
162 posts
Feb 08, 2008
5:55 PM
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example... If you notice what i asked Chirs R. if most all his birds came off the hen? He asnswered Yes. Thats his Prepotent bird she is producing for him . Prepotent birds passes its goods to the next generations with very high percentage of good ones . Off 10 birds say u get 7 to 8 good ones. Thats ur prepotent bird.. If you breed 10 and get 3 then its not prepotent. Not say there good but aweful percentage . good luck
sidlOVe*
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Sandy91, SA Region 3
144 posts
Feb 08, 2008
5:57 PM
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Ok I got it thank you.
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ezeedad
330 posts
Feb 09, 2008
12:08 PM
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Right Scott..!!
Thanks fot the clarification. And I have seen some birds that look incredible on the ground just turn out to be common tumblers in the air.
Paul
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CSRA
1395 posts
Feb 19, 2008
1:01 AM
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Paul you are very sharp very good job
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CSRA
1396 posts
Feb 19, 2008
1:06 AM
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Sidlove good job if a bird was not flown and somehow gets the chance to breed on 2 or 3 hens and is pushing out awesome perfomers he has very good value flown or not flown
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sippi
48 posts
Feb 19, 2008
7:37 AM
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Another scenario. A beginner gets three or four pair of birds from a reputable breeder and starts breeding. Most of the pairs produce fairly well but one does not. Throw them out. What of the other two or three? Should he fly them out or keep on breeding never to fly them. If he does fly them and they are not up to par, what then?
I am not a novice by no means but this is my situation in my quest to win the world cup. I had rollers off and on all my life but never decided to compete before. I changed families completely when I decided to win the world cup.HEHEHE. Prior to this I flew Orientals, Galati's and a supposed pensom line that was very stiff.
Sippi
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colinb
4 posts
Feb 19, 2008
8:14 AM
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shadow, i think you are right. quality should be first priority .
Over here, we have 200 quality points to be used, for example you have 2 kits, 1 breaks big all the time, but been so active cant always produce the quality.
the second kit, breaks well but not as active as the first kit but the quality is far superior, the 200 quality points can be used to ensure this kit wins.
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quickspin
365 posts
Feb 19, 2008
9:16 AM
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At this time I don't stock from the nest, I have to see the bird in the air minimum 1 year. If I get a bird that surpass my previous stock bird I will remouve the bird and fly him again. This will keep me from breeding any bird and only the best should do.
You never know if the bird from the nest will have any faults. Even sometimes after 2 year of beeig excellent they can be a rolldown or not kit at all. This has happend to me and I don't have any clue of why. This was on other strains that I had before not on the new ones at this time.
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SALAS LOFT
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