gabe454
227 posts
Feb 08, 2008
9:43 AM
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Question ive seen alot of judges at shows look in the birds eyes what exactly are they looking at?
454
TRIPLE "G" LOFT
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Mount Airy Lofts
461 posts
Feb 08, 2008
10:48 AM
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gabe,
Just recently took some photos of my best performers eyes. Some have stunning eyes as well. When I look into the eyes, I am looking for a lot junk. I'm not not a Show Judge so I do not know what they are looking for. Junk to me are things that break up our view of the eyes. I believe these are the veins located in the eye - hence why some birds roll blood in the eye. If you may, take a look at my photos. These our eyes which I consider to have junk in them. Can you see all the worm like lines that defines the eyes? I will post one that looks watery and has no definitions to the eye.
I have seen some really RARE eyes in my days of loft hopping. Our rollers sure can possess the beautifulest eyes in the pigeon breed.
Enjoy,
Thor
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gabe454
228 posts
Feb 08, 2008
10:53 AM
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thanks thor i see what your talking about the reason for asking is that i see alot of judges looking into the eyes just wanted to get an idea what it was there looking at thanks alot thor for your input.
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454
TRIPLE "G" LOFT
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Mount Airy Lofts
463 posts
Feb 08, 2008
10:59 AM
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gabe,
I have a friend who judges a lot of Roller shows. The flying breed (as they call it) not the Show Rollers. I'll see if I will remember to ask this question on my next visit. I don't visit any Show rooms myself so don't know what you are talking about when a judge does his thing.
My local club will put on a show every so often during our annual meeting. Usually a guest judge will come in and do their thing. My birds are all ways the first to get booted out of the cage so I am pretty clueless as to what they are looking for. Then again, I pluck mine straight from the kit box... maybe being hollow out doesn't help during a show... sure does miracles for them in the air tho.
Keep it real,
Thor
Last Edited by on Feb 08, 2008 11:00 AM
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roll-n-4-ever
67 posts
Feb 08, 2008
11:25 AM
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THE JUDGES SHOULD BE LOOKING @ THE 5 RINGS IN A PIGEONS EYE.SOME BREEDERS THINK THE EYE ITSELF WILL TELL A STORY, WEATHER OR NOT A BIRD WILL BE BETTER IN THE AIR OR IN THE BREEDING LOFT.EACH RING WILL HAVE ITS OWN STORY.. THE HOMER GUYS ARE REAL BIG ON EYES....
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Shadow
59 posts
Feb 08, 2008
2:24 PM
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Very good pictures of eyes Thor,just for a bit of fun with your o.k. If I was to select bird to bring home for myself,I would pick no 3 and No 4,how wrong or right would I be
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Sandy91, SA Region 3
138 posts
Feb 08, 2008
2:49 PM
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All has nice eyes except the last one...
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luis
626 posts
Feb 08, 2008
7:48 PM
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I'll 2nd that Thor,good pics!Shadow what exactly are you looking at and why?Don't know a darn thing about eye sign!
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SiDLoVE
166 posts
Feb 08, 2008
7:52 PM
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Cover the eye with the shadow, then let light into it and see how fast the pupil reaction is and gets small...Thats what i like from the eye ..if it takes to long to move and reaction is slow...and i dont like that ......good luck...
sidLOVe*
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W@yne
1051 posts
Feb 08, 2008
11:11 PM
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Thor some nice examples of the eye
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Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
=====================================
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Shadow
62 posts
Feb 08, 2008
11:38 PM
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You are spot on SIDLoVE the reaction you have described is caused by the Spinchter Muscle,and causes the eye to switch from short sight to long sight,essential that this muscle is pronounced in most good pigeons eyes,its quality will be determined by allowing light to penetrate quickly from dark,and watching how quickly the pupil decreases in size,like all living creatures its more pronounced in some than others,and will tend to fade with age,in human terms,some eyes can see objects at good distances,and yet glasses are needed for something almost under your nose.observe when feeding by hand,some older birds size grain mostly by instinct,acceptable,younger working bird/racer/roller not acceptable,
Last Edited by on Feb 08, 2008 11:39 PM
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Mount Airy Lofts
466 posts
Feb 09, 2008
9:55 AM
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Thanks for the kind comment. They were just random birds I selected to photograph. It was a tad bit too cold that day to take photos of the Old bird team so I figure I'd take some of their eyes. It turned out greater than I'd expected. This was my second try at this eye photo thing. Took some a few years back but the results were not of this quality. Since technology has leaped forward some bit, I'd thought I'd give it another shot. Glad I did and I'm glad you guys liked them. Took some of the Orange series as well but did not want to confuse gabe by posting Oranged eyes with Pearl eyes. So I went all Pearl :)
Any who, are you guys a big fan of David Kolwaski's eye flex machine? Actually had a chance to try it out this one year. All I had to say was, done it and came out even more confused :). Interesting to say the least. If you guys don't know what I am talking about go grab yourself a copy of David's first book and it has a section in it that talks greatly about this eye flex theory. He has a photo of his contraption.
Not a fan of eye flex. All tho I do like looking at the beauty of our birds eyes. If you guys have the time, you should go thru your best performers and then compare them to your best producers. You might learn a thing or two about your family of Rollers. Stock from the air :)
Thor
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yellowking
10 posts
Feb 09, 2008
11:15 AM
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Mount Airy Lofts:
Are you from Mount Airy, NC
if so...do you know, Gary Lor? or Meng Lor?
I use to live in mount airy
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Mount Airy Lofts
467 posts
Feb 09, 2008
11:42 AM
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The first photo is what I call Black Pearl eyes. With some age, it should darken the all ready black outer ring giving the appearance of Black. That is a '06 kit bird.
The last one from the first post is a full brother to a bird which had the thickest/darkest Black Pearl eyes I have ever seen on a bird. This bird was owned by my buddy. It was purchased thru selection from the air and later became his Foundation Cock bird. It died in 2005. If not for that, I would love to show you a photo of his eyes. A very RARE eye indeed, as for eyes goes.
My friend John trying out the eye box. There is a attached light bulb hidden inside the enclosed wooded box. A jewelers glass for an eye piece enhances the magnification of the eyes. Refer to photo for the correct stance :) A paddle is attached and when stepped on, turns the attached light on.
Thor
Last Edited by on Feb 09, 2008 11:49 AM
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Mount Airy Lofts
468 posts
Feb 09, 2008
11:50 AM
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yellow king,
Nope never did. It is just a name.
Thor
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
427 posts
Feb 09, 2008
2:39 PM
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REALLY NICE EYE SIGN!!! 1-2-3-number 4 is super nice. Thanks for sharing.
R-LUNA
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Donny James
287 posts
Feb 09, 2008
6:05 PM
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is any one into the eye sign????????????????donny james
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city-side-lofts
132 posts
Feb 09, 2008
7:20 PM
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Dj im not really into the eye as a notifaction of what the bird does or how it performs i only use the eye as a sign on homers smoth eye in racers they are not going to be a long distance bird they are usally a sprinter if they have defination and lines with the worm looking bumps it means they are usally long distance on rollers i notice it barly means any thing the eye of a roller its just a thing to look at i believe it does tell the story of the bird though thats just me i think it can tell how the bird is going to breed and thats all but i dont know what every one else thinks you may think im crazy but i dont
Bling-Bling-Benny-Boy
____________________________
The man in black
city-side-lofts.piczo.com
Ben the bird man of Idaho
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Sandy91, SA Region 3
159 posts
Feb 09, 2008
7:26 PM
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I am looking for that "expretion" in a eye...If you can figure it out your on the right track...
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Mount Airy Lofts
476 posts
Feb 10, 2008
1:15 AM
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Shadow,
If I really had to pick, I would opt for no. 4. I'm a sucker for the Black Pearl eyes. You can't see it as it is not so pronounce in this bird but it still has just a tint. That and it is a grand son off my foundation cock bird - fits into my breeding program.
You probably will not go wrong picking either one. Both of those no. 3 and 4 were the only stock birds I took of that day.
No. 3 is a tad bit on the wild side but is a out standing producer for velocity. He has produce 2 so far that has come close to just blurring out.
No. 4 is a breeder of late developers. He is a out standing breeder if you can wait for his youngsters to come in. The most stable and deepest birds come from him.
Thor
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Shadow
64 posts
Feb 10, 2008
1:43 AM
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Got to say well done on producing such quality pictures of the birds eyes,its not the easiest thing to do,you seem to have cracked it,do you have any photos of the brown/orange/gold/green/eyes if so what about posting them if possible.
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RUDY..ZUPPPPP
1128 posts
Feb 10, 2008
4:15 AM
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Cool pics of Eyes.........lol
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RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
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Mount Airy Lofts
477 posts
Feb 10, 2008
8:14 AM
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It is the birds themselves. No. 2 and No. 4 are full brothers. No. 1 is their niece - her mom is a full sister to No. 2 and 4. There must be some thing about eyes following certain lines. Here is a full brother to No. 2 and 4
I'm looking to put him and his full brother (eye No. 2) away after this season if they make it. Really want to see if they improves even more this year. The orange eyed one is a '05 and the pearl one is a '06.
Shadow, I've heard of great rollers with Brown eyes but have yet to come upon one yet. It is hard to capture the different hues given off in the eye. I was told by a believer of eye signs once that No. 3 had some of the best hues on it. This was after he went thru my stock birds.
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It's all about the friends we make :)
Last Edited by on Feb 10, 2008 8:20 AM
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houndsandfeathers
75 posts
Feb 10, 2008
9:45 AM
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i understand it some as i have racers my families of racers all tend to stay on the same lines of eyes pearl family orange family and fire eye family in the bandits muelemens to me have the most beuatiful pearl balck eye ive seen     
Last Edited by on Feb 10, 2008 9:57 AM
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SpinCityRollers
106 posts
Feb 10, 2008
9:53 AM
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MY OPINION EYES DONT REALLY MATEH TO ME ROLL COME IN ALL EYE COLOR THAT SHOULD BE THE MAIN FOCUS SO PEOPLE DO IT BECAUSE THE SAY OTHERS DO IT I USE TO DO IT TO BUT DOESNT MATTER BECAUSE YOU NEVER KNOW FLY THEM FLY THEM
mADmAX2008
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Shadow
66 posts
Feb 11, 2008
12:44 AM
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My own opinion is the study of eyes can be extremely benifical for those who study,if only for health reasons,a great deal of ailments can be observed in different zones of the pigeons eyes,before they have manifested themselves to attack its body,likewise there are signs that will appear and show in different zones of the eye regarding what organs have been affected for one reason or another,in human parlance they are are still evaluating eyes for many other reasons,as well as the most obvious one of ,sight,most opticians are capable of and do warn of impending ailments in human eyes when its observed before the problem ever manifests,as for eyes being capable of displaying capabilities re breeding or rolling,its a case of whatever floats your boat,for myself its yes,95% of the time I can read these capabilities,if present,but the finished product is like a fruit cake,eye capability is only one of the many factors required to make it a success,but again I state this is my slant,on improving and keeping our feathered charges healthy,and no doubt there are many other ways,all equally as rewarding.
Last Edited by on Feb 11, 2008 12:51 AM
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
428 posts
Feb 11, 2008
7:42 AM
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454, yes there is a value in eye sign,if you can read them or have studied or experminted , to certain degree's. It is one indicator of choosing birds on the ground of better chances of breeders of choosing birds without having flown them, along with other factors such as feathers, type,expression,and characters.There is alot of people that say thats crazy or no way you can't tell about a birds eye sign,,, but here's the thing, you have your arguements with people that HAVE NOT studied or oberserved eye sign. I for one did not know and was totally ignorant about them,,until I had some menotors that I learned from. I did not take it for granted but put all what they said and what was written TO THE TEST. The pictures of eye 1- 3-4-and 5 are really nice signs.
R-LUNA
Last Edited by on Feb 11, 2008 7:44 AM
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Mount Airy Lofts
479 posts
Feb 11, 2008
7:44 AM
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Nice photos of your Homer's eyes. How about sharing your Roller's eyes as homers are a different breed?
Every one will benefit from observing their birds? Let it be development, expression, type, eyes, head, etc. With out observation, how is one suppose learn any thing. Learn what makes your family tic. What may hold true in your family may not in another. We are all ways learning and that is key to improve what we have.
There is nothing wrong with just picking up your best spinners or best producers and examining them in every aspects - one favorite is their eyes. Personally, I like looking into their eyes... I'm looking for a nice bright eye. I also like to see a lot of junk in the eye. Is there a way for me to tell their performance just from their eyes? No :( This is done by flying them.
I think there are more to the eyes than most Roller men will admit.
Thor
P.S. All eyes posted there have proven themselves in the air first :)
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It's all about the friends we make :)
Last Edited by on Feb 11, 2008 7:49 AM
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Donny James
290 posts
Feb 11, 2008
6:43 PM
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hay guys i got a paper that paul bradford gave me years ago on the eye on roller if any wants a copy of give me your address @mrprc1@yahoo.com and i'll be glad to send you one out .................donny james
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Mount Airy Lofts
490 posts
Feb 13, 2008
2:02 PM
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Can I ask every one to post their best producing bird's eye for all to compare? You guys got me interested. I will take a photo of my best producing bird - since my foundation kicked the can in '05 - I'll grab a shot of the next best thing which happens to be a Hen. Produces quality birds even on my good buddies color project crosses.
Waiting until the weather warms up to above freezing...
Thor
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It's all about the friends we make :)
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Mount Airy Lofts
491 posts
Feb 13, 2008
2:04 PM
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R-Luna,
What are you looking for as to good traits seen in the eye?
Thor
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It's all about the friends we make :)
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crystalpalace
296 posts
Feb 13, 2008
8:46 PM
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I started studying racing homer eyes and many other pigeon eyes as a youth. All the breeds I raised were checked for eye sign. I made sure the majority of my best breeders for show and flying had great eye sign. One bird definely had to have good eye sign while the other was decent. It paid off for me because I was awarded several Master Breeder Awards. My roller stud was built around the eye sign and ariel performance along with all the finer features a great roller should posses. Everyone that has purchased my stock and bred them together or their birds have bred better stable rollers. The right selection of stock birds is highly essencial to be successfull in flying great kit birds. Then flying condition, proper diet, and a great flying scedule are necessary too. Good luck with whatever you do with your rollers. I want to say thank you for posting all the beautifull birds eyes. keep em flying, Ray Sanchez.
Last Edited by on Feb 13, 2008 8:52 PM
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Shadow
71 posts
Feb 14, 2008
1:03 AM
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Good Post by Ray above,in total agreement with whats stated,and in answer to this posts Title,I have this to say.
IS THERE VALUE IN STUDYING PIGEONS EYES?
A lot more than you will ever know if you dont.
Last Edited by on Feb 14, 2008 1:05 AM
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
430 posts
Feb 14, 2008
6:38 AM
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quickspin you are right. You can't see the eye of a bird in the sky,,I believe no one can.LOL LOL. There is quite a bit to learn from the eye((( if you have the nitch to do so))). What I look for in the eye with in creased chances ,,,are for very good possible breeders if the +'s out weigh the -'s..
There are good rollers in the sky that have a flat eye sign or dull eye,that them as breeders are low in percentage.. If there is a good spinner in the sky ,,that has a flat or bad eye sign,, I would not use it or keep it as a stock bird,,it will continue to fly.""THERE IS DEFINATELY VALUE IN EYE SIGN""...
RAY I AGREE WITH YOU AND GOOD POST!!!!
Thor I would like to discuss eye sign with you..e-mail me at gangstaspeed@verizon.net leave your phone number and I'll give you a call. Thanks
R-LUNA
Last Edited by on Feb 14, 2008 7:09 AM
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ezeedad
335 posts
Feb 14, 2008
1:03 PM
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Richard,
I agree very much with what you are saying. My experience has showed me the same thing. The more of that tight coil in the eye the better.
Paul
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ROBERT RODRIGUEZ
47 posts
Feb 16, 2009
2:12 PM
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"LOOK FOR EXPRESSION IN THE EYES ITS A SIGN OF INTELLECTIONS" WITH EXPERIENCE IN OBSERVING YOURE PIGEONS YOU WILL LEARN TO RECOGNIZE EXPRESSION WHEN YOU SEE IT
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gotspin7
2248 posts
Feb 16, 2009
6:27 PM
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Thor, real nice! Hey as long as you have a nice clear healthy eye all else is BS in my book. All else is just prefrence.
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Sal Ortiz
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
287 posts
Feb 16, 2009
7:44 PM
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Hey Gabe, I check mine to make sure they have 2 of them. LOL Eye sign is a homer thing, have never seen any credible explanation or theory correlating eye sign and performance in rollers!
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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Alohazona
563 posts
Feb 16, 2009
8:48 PM
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Joe,
I went to my friend Walt's the other day,as I had not been there for some time.Looking into his stock loft,I was able to pick his best producers based on what I call the breeder eye.You know when you see it ,if you study it.If you ignore it will take you some time to embrace it ,if at all.Does it help?there's know doubt in my mind.The bird's I selected were Ivan Hanchetts [Bib hen stuff],pure J.L.Smith,pure Tom Hatcher...Aloha,Todd
ps I was taught by some outstanding racing homer guys.My stud is Golden Mattens,Bandit,Mr.Aristona,Hollywood
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Jep1104
9 posts
Feb 16, 2009
9:11 PM
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I think the eye has a lot to do with it, but an old great flier that I know told me once, back in the day. Homer Coderre " What are you looking for " I really did'nt know what to say. My friend knew Stan Plona. The eye is only to see out of...
I kept to that simple rule, thats my thoughts. Just my 2 cent....jep
Last Edited by on Feb 16, 2009 9:15 PM
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Jep1104
10 posts
Feb 16, 2009
9:16 PM
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Speed loft is that Richard Luna of Garden Grove? Still trying to fly those yellows......?
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