George R.
158 posts
Feb 16, 2008
7:29 AM
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Do you agree that World Cup Rules give the Birds a chance to show what they are made of?
I knew a Club that allowed 2 out birds and always got high scores .
does that do the Breed as a performer any JUSTICE by lowering the STANDARD.
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CSRA
1374 posts
Feb 16, 2008
7:40 AM
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i agree george the rules are very good what you think
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Scott
21 posts
Feb 16, 2008
8:03 AM
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Lowering the standard of "anything" is an injustice, one huge problem we are facing now is so many judges scoreing culls and or birds rolling like culls, it is really disheartning.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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kcfirl
298 posts
Feb 16, 2008
10:23 AM
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I think we should only score full turns anf that the birds must go a minimum of 30 ft and show the whole.
Otherwise - no score!
Anything less is lowering the standard!
Firl
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Scott
31 posts
Feb 16, 2008
10:31 AM
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I bet you would start seeing over time more that fit that criteria , minus the full turns of coarse.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Feb 16, 2008 11:06 AM
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SiDLoVE
183 posts
Feb 16, 2008
1:15 PM
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I always hear judge this and judge that . But as we all clearly see the dam BEST Flyers are still at the TOP! Maybe if we all knew the winners were the poor quality and lots of frequency then it would be diffrent story but its just not the case. So i think the rule is the judge has last call on score sheet.
sidLOVe*
Last Edited by on Feb 16, 2008 1:16 PM
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RUDY..ZUPPPPP
1144 posts
Feb 16, 2008
1:50 PM
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Good post Sid....................
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RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
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W@yne
1076 posts
Feb 16, 2008
1:52 PM
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Mr Sidlove
A good kit of birds can be robbed of a place with a bad judge judging activity my friend.
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Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
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SiDLoVE
184 posts
Feb 16, 2008
1:54 PM
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Yes it can. And yes it happens. Usually the final judge will clean it all up and put it together. We are humans and not always 100% perfect...Always seems the ones complaining are the ones losing ...Just Have Fun with it All.....
good luck ..
sidLOVe*
Last Edited by on Feb 16, 2008 2:14 PM
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W@yne
1079 posts
Feb 16, 2008
11:14 PM
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Sid
Of course it does happen and i have seen it with my own eyes so its no good turning a blind eye to this problem we have.
Sidlove wrote
Always seems the ones complaining are the ones losing ...Just Have Fun with it All.....
Hope your not referring to me there Mr Sidlove because i have not flown in comp for two years through working on my new strain of pigeon as you know.
But i have always kept in touch with REALITY I still have watched and followed the flys around on a regular basis over the two years and even judged so i do know what is happening out there in the real real world.
Have a nice day Mr Sidlove :-)
Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
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Last Edited by on Feb 17, 2008 1:29 AM
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SiDLoVE
185 posts
Feb 17, 2008
11:21 AM
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Hey Wayne am not referring to you .Your a big guy youll beat me up ..HAHA Am just throwing it out there to see if its true what am saying .. ..lmao...Have a good one Wayne .
sidLOVe*
Last Edited by on Feb 17, 2008 12:13 PM
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quality
10 posts
Feb 25, 2008
2:10 PM
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We are way to easy in the World Fly. This is supposed to be the best of the best. We should only be marking quality turns, no birds out, all birds must fly the 20 minutes or disqualification.
The harder the judging the lower the scores.
Without QUALITY, Depth means nothing. A high velocity roller if rolling fast enough should not be able to roll much past 25 to 30 feet or it would blow apart. Anyone who says their rollers go 40, 50, 60 feet in high velocity spins does not know what a high velocity spin is.
You know this statement is true if you think about the centrifical force endeavoured by a roller in a high velocity spin, all it's weight being thrusted outward. I have seen deep rollers ,but not with a high velocity spin.
I have however seen a roller go 35 to 40 feet in a high velocity spin & come down with blown blood vessels in it's eyes.
There is nothing wrong with a 15 foot roller, they usually are some of the best you will see.
Just because you can see a hole in the middle does not mean they are high velocity rollers.
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THC
10 posts
Feb 25, 2008
4:20 PM
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you are right scott. you have to have ruls and standers for big fly like that. hope all is good with you and your wife. are you going to the show on the march 2 good luck
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W@yne
1118 posts
Feb 25, 2008
10:24 PM
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Quality
I think you need to come over to England you will see rollers roll more that 25 to 30 foot in a high velocity roll.
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Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
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Last Edited by on Feb 26, 2008 9:38 AM
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quality
16 posts
Feb 26, 2008
11:31 AM
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My birds are from England, but I don't want to see them roll anymore than 25 to 30 feet. Check out the physics on the outward thrust durung a high velocity spin, at about the 30' mark they slow up. Now could be my 30' is your 60' as well, who knows for sure.
Anyone I talk to over in England who saw some of the greats fly over there, say there are no more good rollers left in England.
Maybe your high velocity roll at my place would be too slow?
Who's to say.
Don Lunau
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colinb
27 posts
Feb 26, 2008
11:40 AM
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then thay haven't been to Middlesbrough deano finished 2and in the world cup with the highest quality in the world.
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W@yne
1124 posts
Feb 26, 2008
12:05 PM
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Don
I think you know better to knock the English birds of course there is good birds in England who are the guys in England you keep in touch with over here who has told you all this BS that you are listening to????
Don to say you have had pigeons all this time and you have never seen a high velocity bird roll past 30 ft is beyond me.
Don
I have a roller here that on entering the roll will speed up the deeper it gets into a blur it must roll at least 40 foot what happened to outward thrust there???
Don
I suggest you get around more and not just in your area otherwise it will cause loft blindness.
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Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
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Last Edited by on Feb 26, 2008 1:26 PM
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Steve_uk
358 posts
Feb 26, 2008
12:23 PM
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Loft blindness is one of the fastest growing ailments in canada at the moment i seen it on NBC, they say the only cure is a vacation to England.
Steve...
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nicksiders
2600 posts
Feb 26, 2008
1:21 PM
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LMAO steve
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Shadow
100 posts
Feb 26, 2008
11:35 PM
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Don
I am sure when posting your comments re English Birds a certain amount tongue in cheek is fairly evident,would imagine you being too world wise for anything else,I had the pleasure on more than once to witness Bob Browns kits,most of these birds were working well over 25ft,many considerably deeper,the deepest roller I ever flew myself a Mealy Pied Cock 100% Bobs lines,would roll between 60 and 100ft,the further he went,the faster he got,and exit each roll with the the tightest arc possible,he was toe tingling perfection,very rarely stood watching his displays myself,as fanciers often came from other Counties to view him,Don read whats being posted,especially between the lines,concerning rollers Worldwide,there is still only one place these genuine rolllers/spinners are in abundance,chiefly because they have never lost sight of what constitutes a roller,and this is the home of the ROLLER,wishing you the best,again this is my opinion.
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Scott
119 posts
Feb 27, 2008
3:35 PM
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"Anyone who says their rollers go 40, 50, 60 feet in high velocity spins does not know what a high velocity spin is."
I get a few here and there,mainly yearlings going through a phase as far as instability, once they get a handle on it they shorten up though and the speed and quality notches up also.
The real deep one's ( 50-60 ft plus) either get a handle on it or bite the big one in time, 30' does seem to be the magic mark though for maintaining qaulity and speed,there are exceptions also though, 15 footers don't impress me much though in all honesty.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Feb 27, 2008 4:30 PM
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quality
19 posts
Feb 27, 2008
7:01 PM
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colinb was it you that was 2nd place in the world fly last year. If so you are right you had the highest quality rollers & in my book that makes you the winner.
The NBRC & the World Cup pride themselves on saying they promote the higest quality rollers, I do not remember them saying anything about promoting the highest frequency.
There fore you would be the winner last year, even if you scored 10 but had the highest quality. I my book the winner is always the guy with the highest quality not score.
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Shadow
103 posts
Feb 28, 2008
12:05 AM
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Scott
So far I have heard no one say they have got rollers doing 40/50/60/ ft with velocity,I stated when I watched Bob Browns birds,around 1982 every bird flown that day were rolling these distances plus,with velocity,some were what you might term baggy assed but the majority were excecuting perfect rolls,with velocity an depth,deep velocity rollers 40/50/60/are not uncommon,not seen much in flys,their kitting and frequency being somewhat suspect,at this moment I have got an 01 Black Badge Hen who will throw in to or three good sixty footers when being flown,she has not bit the big one yet in seven years flying, I have never seen The Pyramids but I believe that are there,all the best.
Last Edited by on Feb 28, 2008 12:08 AM
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colinb
33 posts
Mar 01, 2008
8:24 AM
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No mate deanos another one of the boro lads his quality is second to non and have seen his birds role way past any 30 foot
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charlie boy
20 posts
Mar 09, 2008
6:24 AM
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Don't you think it is about Evolution, everything gets faster! like running the fastest time is always getting broke.
I hear about you all going on about pigeon's from the old greats.In the UK we breed for speed/Quality, No hole in the role just a blare and I think if the old greats could see our pigeon's now they would be shocked at the speed/Quality that we fly in the UK now.
That's just my opinion
By the way i am not Knocking nobody but without these old greats rollers wouldn't be what they are now so i have the up most respect for them
Last Edited by on Mar 09, 2008 6:29 AM
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elopez
750 posts
Mar 09, 2008
9:22 AM
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Charlie,
I agree, in theory the birds should be faster/better. However, not seeing the older birds in action, or not remembering we couldn't really say. If there was something that measures the velocity of the bird then we would be able to determine what today’s birds can do versus the birds of the future.
Don't get some of these comments mixed up, here in the USA we have some outstanding spinners some of the best in the world! Some of the guys are just talking about how great these birds of the past were. That is not saying that they have or havn't breed anything better.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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155
249 posts
Mar 09, 2008
10:21 AM
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IT GETING HOT UP IN HERE!!! BUT CHECK THIS OUT ARIZONA HAVE THE BEST BIRDS SO NOW WHAT LLOOOLLLL JUST TRYING TO HAVE SO
FUN..............
BUT THIS IS A GOOD TOPIC
EVILLOFT'S
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j .wanless
3 posts
Mar 09, 2008
10:42 AM
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hi all im new to this site but i/ve had rollers for 40 years.efren what charlie says is right.iknow every rollerman in england & i/ve seen & judged thier birds .i/m good friends with all the top flyers over here.i/ve seen the birds improve considrably since i started to fly in competion in the 70/s.in the begining the older generation used to laugh at us in middlesbrough.we use to buy all there rubbish because we did not know how to fly compation.but we spent years breeding for style&speed & now we fly some of the best quality birds in the world.far better than the birds of the past.like charlie says its called eveloution.
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charlie boy
22 posts
Mar 09, 2008
11:50 AM
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Thanks John I just hope that people come over to the UK and see how fast these birds really are, I think they will be shocked.
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c robbo
213 posts
Mar 09, 2008
12:01 PM
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good post lads.
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Scott
171 posts
Mar 09, 2008
12:06 PM
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Shadow,I get a few doing 40 or so that can hold it together and do it right with speed, but they aren't common.
To be honest I have a hard time believing that they are common any where,at least truely good ones.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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