Missouri-Flyer
1323 posts
Feb 21, 2008
9:37 AM
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#6 brings up a quote that someone posted a week or so ago. They stated something like " That bird doesnt look right. Its head is to big, and the forehead looks to flat..Cant remember who, but I will look.
Kinda 180 degree turn from what Bill is saying here.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
Last Edited by on Feb 21, 2008 9:38 AM
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Built4Speed
70 posts
Feb 21, 2008
9:38 AM
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Thanks Marcus,
Good refresher course!
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Dale
SGVS
http://builtforspeedrollerlofts.bravehost.com/
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lproller
5 posts
Feb 21, 2008
9:58 AM
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"The man that can read and chooses not to...has no advantage over the man that can't read"
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sippi
58 posts
Feb 21, 2008
12:59 PM
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Thanks Marcus. I just got two books from Tony yesterday and have already read them both. I read all I can about the birds and try to store the useful parts. Of course the hard drive is about full so now I have to delete something to put something in.lol
Sippi
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Oldfart
491 posts
Feb 21, 2008
2:29 PM
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Can we ever learn to much? Thanks Marcus.
Thom
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RUDY..ZUPPPPP
1183 posts
Feb 21, 2008
3:16 PM
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Thx for the info.. marcus
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RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
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SpinZone
62 posts
Feb 21, 2008
6:34 PM
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DeepSpin thank you for that piece of historical literature.
Knowledge is key and I for one can never get enough.
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DeepSpinLofts
322 posts
Feb 21, 2008
7:01 PM
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To all of you who are lurking and reading (yang501424, Missouri-Flyer, Built4Speed, lproller, sippi, Oldfart, RUDY..ZUPPPPP, SpinZone.. and others)
I firmly believe that knowledge is power and through constant reading we can learn a lot... so much in fact... that eventually we will have built ourselves a reservoir of wisdom.
NOTE: Anyone who stops learning is old, whether at age 20 or 80. But anyone who keeps learning stays young. The greatest thing in life is to keep your mind young and sharp as a blade! Never forget that.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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ezeedad
342 posts
Feb 21, 2008
7:42 PM
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That #8 advice from Pensom is pretty scary for our breed, especislly since the increase of the BOP populations. There must be a lot more breeding of the early developers now than ever.
Gomez
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bigwilly
414 posts
Feb 21, 2008
8:06 PM
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Thanks alot for taking the time to post that.
Paul. I was thinking that same thing. Talking to alot of different breeders in L.A. they want there birds to come in early because of the BOP. Do you think that a person can realisticly fly a bird for two years? I think if you do you just got away, got lucky. I think that breeders know days have to have a really good eye and really know rollers because you have to pull your birds so early.
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tapp
539 posts
Feb 22, 2008
8:49 AM
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Thanks for the good reading Marcus.
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Tapp
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DeepSpinLofts
325 posts
Feb 22, 2008
11:52 AM
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To all of you who are very serious about the sport: I'm quite certain that most of these writings by WH Pensom are nearly 50 years old.
...so
Allow me to reiterate; "Take what you need or discard what you don't".
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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Scott
80 posts
Feb 22, 2008
6:48 PM
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If you can't fly mature birds they aren't worth flying in my book, maybe, just maybe , breeding hot young developing boneheads may in reality be part of the problem when it comes to being chewed up.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Shadow
86 posts
Feb 23, 2008
3:57 AM
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Good deal of relevance in above re W.H.P thoughts,how many of his thoughts have stood the test of time,my own opinion is first five points have no input whatsoever in my own management,with some good solid advice to be found in others,as for rollers coming early,this should be discouraged,in the year of its birth,best performance is to be found as a rule between 12 months to 18 months old birds,and onwards,with their youth spent in slow steady development,physically and mentally,then you judge the finished product.I have a lot of sympathy for those who seemingly have to develop early rollers re B.O.P.and there are an awful lot more quality,style,vel,and stability to be found in the complete package
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Missouri-Flyer
1351 posts
Feb 23, 2008
4:07 AM
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Good Morning Shadow,
With the early developing birds, would you say that the fliers that lock down for 5 months out of the year, are going to get the same performance as the guys that fly year round?..You say between 12 to 18 months, but is that for those that lock down, or for those that fly year round?..In my opinion, you can not compare the 2 types, as those that get flown year round have 2 times more fly time, and should come in sooner than those that have been locked down.. or is being locked down not a factor as to when they should come into the roll?
Are we talking actual fly time as in actual months in the air, or the age of the bird in general?
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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ezeedad
343 posts
Feb 23, 2008
2:28 PM
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Will,
I think that if the breeders will take Pensoms' complete advice about how to select the birds they use as their breeders, maybe they can avoid the problem of having their birds degenerate into a bunch of rolldowns. He was telling us what to look for both in the air and on the ground.
In the time that I've been breeding rollers (getting close to 50 years), Pensoms' advice is still the best I've come across.
Gomez
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Shadow
87 posts
Feb 23, 2008
10:51 PM
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Jerrry
Its age of bird I am referring to,I would prefer if an o8 bred bird did not start to show its true ability,till next season, when its physically and mentally mature and I will feed them accordingly to try and prevent those on the borderline,there are those that will roll anyway,in my own instances,these if still around at a later date,cant compare with a somewhat late developer rollwise,with the emphasis on "being still around" lucky enough I dont find myself in a position,to have to lock down,for B.O.P,with the Peregrine being our biggest problem,unlike yourselves,who have got it a lot worse,so would have to agree,more flying time equals quicker developing roller,this again would be in most instances only if you wanted it,life and all its requirements is one big learning curve,in my case mostly through trial and error,always learning,and questioning.
Just two points regarding W.H.Pensom snippets above that I would like to ask others opinions on
What did he mean by "Eye Expression"
What truths and practice if any are there by his description of a non roller
"flicking over" and stock loft
Last Edited by on Feb 23, 2008 10:53 PM
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Missouri-Flyer
1357 posts
Feb 24, 2008
5:51 AM
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Thanks for your reply Shadow,
I too am in an area that has very few problems " not more than 4 hits in any year", and I find that being able to fly as much as I do, helps bring the birds into the roll sooner..
It falls along the lines of:..Back when I started to lift weights again, after an extended time away from it, I was lucky to be able to put up a third of what I used to, but after lifting everyday, I soon found myself back to where I was..If I had not lifted everyday, and took time off between workouts, then it would have taken more time to get back to where I was..
That is also true for those that put breeders back into the air, after time in the loft..The more you fly them, the sooner they will be back in tip top shape.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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Scott
95 posts
Feb 25, 2008
7:21 PM
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Shadow , expression is nothing more than trying to get a read on the charactor of the bird, fly a bird hard for a couple of years and unless it is a problem bird that just happens to survive it most probably won't have a weak expression.
Stiffs or straight flyers generaly have a very strong expression,problem unstable birds will generaly have a very weak expression unless it is physical like a weak back..
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Feb 25, 2008 7:23 PM
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