winwardrollers
1 post
Feb 26, 2008
11:45 AM
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PRC 53/514 The most talked about hen in the U.S.A..
If you were going to pinch a bird from someone and you had all of History's birds before you, make sure you choose the 514 Hen lol.
George Whitney banded the bird, J Leroy Smith had been breeding the birds since the 1930 to the 1950's the year that both cock and hen to 514 were hatched out. Pensom comes along and pinches back the 514 hen from Whitney some time after he raised her lol.
Brad Winward
Last Edited by on Mar 01, 2008 10:13 PM
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Missouri-Flyer
1384 posts
Feb 26, 2008
5:07 PM
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LaRon,
Any info on this comment that you can give us?
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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JMUrbon
388 posts
Feb 26, 2008
5:10 PM
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Good Post Brad and welcome to RP.com. Joe Urbon
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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Electric-man
1208 posts
Feb 26, 2008
5:13 PM
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Welcome Brad!
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Val
"Site Moderator"
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RUDY..ZUPPPPP
1257 posts
Feb 26, 2008
5:25 PM
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Welcome Brad...............
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RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
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3757
675 posts
Feb 26, 2008
6:27 PM
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Jerry - It is true that the parents of 514 were Smith birds but the pair belonged to Bill. Bill would frequently hide his pairs in different locations. Believe it or not people were stealing birds back then also. The word pinch has negative implications to me as Bill and George Whitney had an agreement that Bill would get birds off of his pair whenever he desired. Whitney was dirt broke and Bill kept other pairs there as Lake Elsinor was like driving to Canada from the Los Angeles area back then and Bill knew the birds would be safe. If I had to pick a hen out of all of the birds that I know of in history I would chose HRC-31-1613 first and foremost. Bill cherished this blood to the fullest and she was a producer of producers and second would be PRC-53-514.
Last Edited by on Feb 26, 2008 6:28 PM
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George R.
236 posts
Feb 26, 2008
6:35 PM
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Then wouldnt the 514 Birds be Smith Birds since they were out of Smiths Line ?
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viper
36 posts
Feb 26, 2008
7:39 PM
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Hey winward your computor thaw out so you could write?
talk to you later Blake
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crystalpalace
307 posts
Feb 26, 2008
7:51 PM
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I read your information concerning HRC-31-1613 and PRC-53-514. My main stock is bred stickly from these two roller hens. I purchased the ash-red mealy bar first and the blue-black check second. Champion stock like this has paid off and was the best invesment ever for me in the competition Roller breed. I have bred some champions in both colors and mated together too. For many years these two colors have been bred to all the other reconized colors with great results. Right on 3757! Ray Sanchez.
Last Edited by on Feb 26, 2008 7:58 PM
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winwardrollers
2 posts
Feb 26, 2008
8:42 PM
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Pensom must have liked PRC55 183 Mealy W/WCock. My be the PRC55 Mealy cock would have been Pensoms pick of all history of birds,.....No don't think so. He did remarked that the cock was a champion and what is interesting listen to this: "One of the best I ever Breed" I like the word "I" refering to Pensom himself.
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nicksiders
2603 posts
Feb 26, 2008
8:55 PM
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Doc,
You are writing all of this down, right?
Nick
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crystalpalace
308 posts
Feb 26, 2008
9:18 PM
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Winwardrollers yout right on regarding PRC -55-183. I have his pedigree back to the early nineteen hundreds and his sire is pictured in Pensoms book. I have bred many mealy bar cocks that look like the ones portrayed in Pensoms book. Plan on taking pictures soon as it gets warmer weather. Rollers in the sport, Ray Sanchwz.
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kopetsa
292 posts
Feb 26, 2008
9:18 PM
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Welcome Brad!
Last Edited by on Feb 26, 2008 9:18 PM
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3757
676 posts
Feb 27, 2008
4:00 AM
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Winward - I did not even mention cocks since I thought the subject was on hens but 183 was also great and produced as well. PRC-57-7001, 145, 119 and many more. If I could pick any bird (2) it would be 463/1613 and the second two would be the $350 dollor cock 1232 (Plona) and the import cock that Plona owned 492.
Ray - It is good to hear this from you. I hope all is well.
Nick - I have it all down and have not even touched the tip of the iceberg yet.
Last Edited by on Feb 27, 2008 6:14 AM
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DeepSpinLofts
342 posts
Feb 27, 2008
6:23 AM
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I have a pearl-eyed red white/flight badge hen out of a strong 514 genepool. Saw her peel off some 15ft, 20ft and 30ft spins like no other bird I observed before. Mated her to a odd-eyed blucheck beard white/flight 25-foot fast spinning cock out of my Plona strain.
Yes indeed, she has the nice apple body, very tight feathering and she looks different from my Plona reds in which they are basically checques in plumage.
Still waiting on the results from this mating in which there are high hopes for some nice spinners with good velocity on the roll. There are 4 youngins in the kitbox, 2 yellow fuzzies in the nest bowl and I lost a red white/side badge squeeker back in November. He just decided to fly away and I assume couldn't find his way back... or could just be another BOP victim.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
Last Edited by on Feb 27, 2008 10:17 AM
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
454 posts
Feb 27, 2008
7:33 AM
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Very interesting, George I guess that "514" would be a Smith bird.
WINWARD, I like your tenacity,, keep it up my friend.
I think we need to all focus on today's bird's and not so much of yesteryears's birds( history),,, done and
gone.Read origin standards of flying birds and dwell and live in that.
R-LUNA
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winwardrollers
5 posts
Feb 27, 2008
11:59 AM
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3757- I do like your pick of 463/1316 and the $350 dollar #1232 cock of Plonas. These are all birds in the background of my own birds.
But...With this post I wanted to give Credit to J. Leroy Smith for what an exceptional Breeder he was. It sure seems to me that 514 would really be a Smith bird, not that it is going to matter one way or the other but I hear alot of talk of 514 the Pensom bird. I don't know that Bill ever claimed to have breed the bird. PRC55-183 is an example of a bird that Pensom claimed to have breed, his words "One of the best I ever Breed".
Pensom was a great collector of bird to me. A man who knew what to look for in a bird and taught others to do the same.
J. Leroy Smith seemed to hang on to a few birds he started with and like Plona said. "When you've got something good, you have to work it , and work it, and work it some more".
I would have liked to see what J Leroy Smith, back then, would have done with the 514 if he would have had her in his loft, Just to see the differance "selection" makes in a Breeders loft.
J Leroy Smith was one of the great Breeders let's give him some credit.
Last Edited by on Feb 27, 2008 12:45 PM
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3757
677 posts
Feb 27, 2008
12:23 PM
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Winward - Thanks and I agree. J. Leroy Smith was an outstanding breeder and a master breeder of Birmingham rollers as well as leghorn chickens. Many individuals call Bill a collector but in my book I will explain in detail some of the accusations and it will be clear (I believe).
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