George R.
275 posts
Mar 06, 2008
6:17 PM
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I read so much about how style is 1st in the roll, well then tell me if a Bird Rolls with EXTREME Velocity and the Best QUALITY SPIN that a Roller pigeon can have when it is spinnning BUT only spins ONE time in a 20 MINUTE Fly is that what everyone considers a CHAMPION ?
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PR_rollers
648 posts
Mar 06, 2008
6:23 PM
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Two to three times a minute thats a champion and being a good producer and on anything thats put on it... thats what we all striving for..
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Ralph....
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Scott
153 posts
Mar 06, 2008
7:09 PM
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George, frequency too a degree is as important as anything, the key word is too a "degree" , too much frequency is a quality killer because generaly too much frequency is a bird that is controled by the roll, such birds tend to fight the roll which in turn gets ugly much of the time.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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George R.
280 posts
Mar 06, 2008
7:09 PM
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well im waiting Guys .... start throwing rocks
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luis
690 posts
Mar 06, 2008
7:13 PM
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Once every 10 min or so wont cut it,at least for me!I would like at least(bare minimum)once per min.Kitting ability then velocity w/style followed by frequency.A bird that's flying off on his own isn't worth much to me,no matter how well or fast he spins!Just my opinion!Unfortunately the BOPs love those bad ass tight kitters too!LOL!
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Scott
155 posts
Mar 06, 2008
7:40 PM
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PS once every twenty min is a cull, I like once a min on average
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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George R.
286 posts
Mar 06, 2008
7:42 PM
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Luis said 1 every ten minutes wont cut it... Thats not good ?
Last Edited by on Mar 06, 2008 8:29 PM
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Santandercol
2115 posts
Mar 06, 2008
8:17 PM
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No George,once every 10 minutes sucks.Read again what Luis said.Who said anything about throwing rocks?Are you trying to take my job of being chief shit disturber??Can you imagine bending your neck that long to see one roll?Once a minute is a decent bird allright.
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Kel.
Rum-30 Lofts
Last Edited by on Mar 06, 2008 8:20 PM
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George R.
291 posts
Mar 06, 2008
8:26 PM
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LOl thanks for pionting that out to me
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Santandercol
2117 posts
Mar 06, 2008
8:27 PM
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No worries,peace bro.
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Kel.
Rum-30 Lofts
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George R.
292 posts
Mar 06, 2008
8:28 PM
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hey Kell good eye earlier in the Day I think you are the only one to catch 420 THC post
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Santandercol
2118 posts
Mar 06, 2008
8:36 PM
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Had my eye on that cookie from the beginning.I'm not a cop but I don't like guys playing games with us.We're here for enjoyment and to help each other out however we can,not for playing head games.
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Kel.
Rum-30 Lofts
Last Edited by on Mar 06, 2008 8:38 PM
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Electric-man
1246 posts
Mar 06, 2008
9:10 PM
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I missed it! Guess you handled it, Kelly?
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Val
"Site Moderator"
Last Edited by on Mar 06, 2008 9:11 PM
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
465 posts
Mar 06, 2008
9:12 PM
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Come on George,,, now that is EXTREME EXAGERATED. 1 in twenty minutes.LOL-LOL
R-LUNA
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Santandercol
2127 posts
Mar 06, 2008
9:15 PM
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Val,
The guy was suspicious from the beginning he had 2 user names,THC and 420.He blew his cover when he signed his post"420 Lofts" under the name of THC.Tony picked up on it when I questioned the guy and he deleted both user names and told him he would have to subcribe under a new name.Who knows what his motives were?
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Kel.
Rum-30 Lofts
Last Edited by on Mar 06, 2008 9:18 PM
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George R.
307 posts
Mar 06, 2008
9:21 PM
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I have seen it Richard a guy told me he had a Bird that rolled 80 ft ..
so one day I went to his loft and he cut his kit loose and the kit was stiff and as I waited I asked him WELL and he said wait its coming
well about twenty minutes into the Fly Bird Cranked a 80 to 100 ft roll it was deep and Fast with no wing
The guy told me he was going to stock it and I told him WHY would you want a kit of those .
I have to admit it was a HELLUVA roll but I would prefer a shorter and more frequent spin with the good style it displayed.
TRUE STORY
Last Edited by on Mar 06, 2008 9:25 PM
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
467 posts
Mar 06, 2008
9:27 PM
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George that is not my style. I wouldn't keep that bird to darn infrequent for me . Definetly not a champion.
R-LUNA
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George R.
308 posts
Mar 06, 2008
9:29 PM
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thats what I thought, thanks Richard
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elopez
726 posts
Mar 06, 2008
10:12 PM
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Good catch 420 and THC. Kinda like Deadend Kid and George...lol
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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jerries loft
115 posts
Mar 06, 2008
10:14 PM
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Thats funny efren
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Jerries Loft
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Mount Airy Lofts
534 posts
Mar 06, 2008
11:17 PM
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Scott,
Here is a question for every one. I noticed that in my best rollers, they will be right on that edge of being controlled by the roll. Here is why I say that. I noticed that when rolling, it seems like it is a constant battle trying to break out of the roll. When they finally do, all energy is spent and they will appear to be dead weight for just a second before heading back to rejoin the team. Wings spread out and leggs in the landing position. Reminds me of those rare young birds that come into to the roll crawling the air trying to get out. Instead in this case, there is no crawling.
A prime example is the News footage of Mr. Catak Rollers. I believe he resides in the UK. I would not consider any of the rolls there to be of a clean exit. I hear all the time that a bird must swing out of the roll. The only ones I have seen that do this are of the average velocity rollers.
We walk a fine line when breeding Champions if you asked me. A Champion is really a dream just like a perfect roller.
I would not consider a 1 time during the whole fly a Champion performer. Who has all day arching ones neck up into the sky trying to catch that second of two performance. Having said that, I would also not cull that bird out of the kit box either. If it is that fast, I would keep flying it. Side note, just as long as it is not the lead bird nor have any kitting issues.
Just my observation,
Thor
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It's all about the friends we make :)
Last Edited by on Mar 07, 2008 8:40 AM
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Scott
158 posts
Mar 07, 2008
5:53 AM
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Thor, are you talking about youngbirds just coming hard into the roll ?
Youngbirds can do all kinds of funky stuff,from looking pretty good to "what the hell was that ?" .
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Mar 07, 2008 5:55 AM
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Mount Airy Lofts
536 posts
Mar 07, 2008
8:44 AM
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Scott,
I'm talking about just plain hard rolling. The reference of coming in from a young bird was just a side example.
Here is the video link I was referring to: http://www.tv2regionerne.dk/reg2005/player.aspx?id=305750&r=6
Notice how the birds dropped dead just for a second before pulling themselves together. View it in 'Full Screen mode'. My best rollers will do this as well when they pull out.
Thor
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It's all about the friends we make :)
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Scott
159 posts
Mar 07, 2008
10:46 AM
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Thor,good ones don't have a problem coming out of the roll, they just snap out.
As for the video,I don't put any stock in what I see on video as it doesn't represent what we actualy see,it all looks ugly,the frames or somthing aren't fast enough.
I do know that the guys accross the pond are critical on how they come out of the roll though, birds that come out wrong or sloppy are like an gymnist falling on his face as a grand ending,or a high diver ending with a belly flop,in other words it isn't over until the execution from start to finish is complete.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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joey mac
3 posts
Mar 07, 2008
11:19 AM
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hi all you judge the roll and Quality not the FINISH WELL WE DO IN UK
Last Edited by on Mar 07, 2008 11:26 AM
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W@yne
1169 posts
Mar 07, 2008
1:04 PM
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Guys
The 1st priority with me is kitting a bird that does have the motor and the depth and frequency isn't worth diddly squat if it cant kit so kitting comes 1st in my book.
2nd Is speed because if you have the speed in your birds then you have something good to work from in your family. Also its easier to breed for wing position than it is to add speed to your family.
3rd wing position the quality is a very important part of the package.
4th Is frequency i think this is the easiest to work with.
Also Scotty we are very strict on the finish of a roller of on exiting the roll over here in the UK Like you explained its the roll from start to finish that gets a mark on the score sheet over here.
JMHO
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Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
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Last Edited by on Mar 07, 2008 1:09 PM
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quickspin
428 posts
Mar 07, 2008
1:14 PM
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Thanks Wayne for the reminder.
The 1st priority with me is kitting as well. They need to kit soon or else they will be gone.
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SALAS LOFT
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Mount Airy Lofts
538 posts
Mar 07, 2008
11:09 PM
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Scott,
The video is as good as they get if you asked me. Have you seen better? The camera they used must of been a very expensive one - the News Crew must of had an unlimited source of tools un like us average joes. The quality displayed by the birds flown was superb.
Would you call them birds on that videos culls then (just by the footage off the video)? I have seen similiar exits from my fastest birds as well. Birds that shink during the roll (I don't breed that many that are of this cabiler). I have a theory. Being that they spin so fast, they either get dizzy or use so much engery that it takes them a sec to regain their senses.
The statement you made about the UK fliers... interesting.
I maybe wrong here and will study more on the subject when the weather warms up. If memory serves me right, the birds that exit like the drawing shown in Mr. Pensom's book have been average to above average velocitors. There are two types, the ones that swing out and the ones that put on the air brakes. The ones that use their brakes resembles most to what I like in the roll. The video link above shows the typical air braker.
Just rambling,
Thor
P.S. Scott, do you have a copy of the '89 NBRC NC Big Fly tape? If not, let me know and I'll see if I can get one out to you. My copy was donated to my local Club. It should still be in the library or circlating within the club members. Would like to get your opinion on the footage?
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It's all about the friends we make :)
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Scott
161 posts
Mar 08, 2008
10:29 AM
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Thor,I can't pull it up, you know my position on this, the higher our standard and the less we tolorate the better our birds will be.
Thor ,thanks but I saw those tapes in Montana last year, they were enjoyable !
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Missouri-Flyer
1439 posts
Mar 08, 2008
3:43 PM
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So Joey,
Your statement suggests that the guys over there could care less about how they exit the roll?..Interesting.. I think I will stay over here!
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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W@yne
1174 posts
Mar 08, 2008
11:26 PM
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So Joey,
Your statement suggests that the guys over there could care less about how they exit the roll?..Interesting.. I think I will stay over here!
Jerry
Joey flys red badge tumblers in competition a totally different ball game than roller flying and yes Jerry we take exit on a roll very serious in competition flying over here in the UK where the standard is very very high.
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Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
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Last Edited by on Mar 08, 2008 11:27 PM
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Shadow
117 posts
Mar 09, 2008
12:10 AM
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On this side we would be in total agreement with Waynes input. rolling correctly then exiting the roll in an arc,smaller the arc,the better,facing the kit,back to the kit: pronto, and its these caliber of birds who rack up the quality scores,whilst the others will roll well,but flounder somewhat on exit,these birds would not earn any quality marks,only breaking points,there are a lot of different ways a bird is capable of finishing the roll,but there is only one correct way.
Last Edited by on Mar 09, 2008 12:43 AM
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Missouri-Flyer
1443 posts
Mar 09, 2008
10:31 AM
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Thanks for the info Wayne,
Boy, I should have known that Joey was not speaking for all of you.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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c robbo
211 posts
Mar 09, 2008
10:36 AM
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i like the style of roller wot u cant see the hole in the middel of. in my eyes you shud not see the hole at all.
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Ballrollers
1093 posts
Mar 10, 2008
2:04 PM
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Shadow,
If you are saying that in the UK, in your opinion you would score a bird in a break, that exits the break, going away from the kit, but give it low quality points; that is my point exactly, let the bird count in the break but ding the quality multiplier. Same thing , different words.
YITS,
Cliff
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Shadow
118 posts
Mar 10, 2008
3:08 PM
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Ballroller
Here in Ireland,no we would never mark a bird going out of kit for any reason,this is a cardinal error,now IF it was marked,it would lose you kitting points for being out of kit,
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