JMUrbon
404 posts
Mar 08, 2008
1:44 PM
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This bird is what I originally built my current family of birds around. He is still very prominant in the background of most of my stock birds.
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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DeepSpinLofts
373 posts
Mar 08, 2008
2:28 PM
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Joe, that's an incredibly super looking bird. Great expression in the eyes. Is it a champion?
I really like those Ash Red Bars with the black ticks. I've grown quite fond of rollers that look like that.
Hmm.....
You say that his gene-pool is still very prominant in the background of most of your stock birds. Must be super-genes in that roller! Of course you done a lot of inbreeding to get your loft stocked with such pre-potent blood.... correct?
Inbreeding is a common method breeders use to overcome the problem of super genes being halved and diluted. By re-crossing a champion roller with its mother for example, or with its daughters, or by mating it with its sisters, the super gene combination can be concentrated and held together.
NOTE: Seventy five percent of the young from such pairings will have the super genes. You can still inbreed further with one of the daughters from the super roller and mother mating and backcross again to the original super roller. By constantly doing so, dramatically you can concentrate the number of super genes in the offspring. This degree of inbreeding is not really necessary to reproduce the champion roller, as a large number of genes are responsible for characteristics in the offspring that are irrelevant to the performance.
For example, color of the feathers or color of the eyes. That is why champion rollers can produce other champions that are not always exactly identical to the parents.
MEMO: The best family of birds is the one that will perform not only to your own standards.... but to those of the level we all wish to attain.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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JMUrbon
405 posts
Mar 08, 2008
2:32 PM
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Marcus this bird was incredibly prepotant. He was also a great 30 foot spinner.A bird that could have been the foundation for any stock loft. I bred him back in 1989 and my only problem with him is he only lived 7 years. I wish he would have lasted 30. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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elopez
742 posts
Mar 08, 2008
2:42 PM
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Nice looking bird Joe.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
Last Edited by on Mar 08, 2008 2:42 PM
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Werstler
29 posts
Mar 08, 2008
7:25 PM
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I've always liked the look of your family of rollers. its funny I've never got my hands on one.. Hummm
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Donny James
310 posts
Mar 08, 2008
8:33 PM
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hay joe very nice looking bird and i want to wish you all the best with him....................donny james
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JMUrbon
406 posts
Mar 08, 2008
9:48 PM
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Thanks Efron, David and Donny. Donny that bird was great while he was with me but he died in 1995. Boy did he throw some good ones up to that time though. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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birdman
510 posts
Mar 08, 2008
10:26 PM
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Joe, what is the background of this bird?
It looks like this could be the bird responsible for the bright pearl eye in your family.
Russ
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winwardrollers
19 posts
Mar 08, 2008
10:58 PM
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Joe
Great looking Roller. Do you have a side picture of your Cock? It hard to get a good look at this bird from this view. Seeing that I don't get to California all that often I haven't had a chance to see your birds. The Lavender and a Mahogany bird on your website look familar to me, they look a lot like some of my original birds.
Brad winward
Last Edited by on Mar 08, 2008 10:59 PM
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JMUrbon
407 posts
Mar 10, 2008
9:44 AM
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Russ this bird was bred off of one of the original Bradford pairs I got back in 1988. Yes he is the start of all of those pearl eyes. Funny thing is he is a first cousin to Dave Hendersons 82 hen and Daves birds come out primarily orange eyes. I have not raised an orange eyed bird out of my birds yet. The only orange eyed birds I have raised were out of Daves birds either half or whole Henderson pairs. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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JMUrbon
408 posts
Mar 10, 2008
9:50 AM
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Brad I dont have a picture of him from another angle but here is on of his great Great grandson. The second picture is his grandson 904 which turned out to be even more valuable in my opinion that he was.
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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houndsandfeathers
89 posts
Mar 10, 2008
6:01 PM
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very nice birds i really would give my left ...well you know to have a bird like him or his grandson they are just the type i strive to create every mating im just a backyard flyer but im a genetic fanatic when making crosses good luck with all your birds
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JMUrbon
410 posts
Mar 10, 2008
9:00 PM
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Thank you houndsandfeathers. Got lucky back then and was able to keep them going and still producing some really nice birds.
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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ICEMAN710
210 posts
Mar 11, 2008
4:38 AM
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great looking bird joe, I wish you were able to have him for another 10 years. I really enojy looking at your birds.
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Gary
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Santandercol
2145 posts
Mar 11, 2008
6:20 AM
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Nice birds Joe,
I sure like those pure blacks,one day maybe I'll get my hands on a pair a them.
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Kel.
Rum-30 Lofts
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Ballrollers
1104 posts
Mar 11, 2008
12:38 PM
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Joe,
I'm no expert by any means, but your foundation cock looks to be an Indigo ash red. He's pretty classic, to be honest.
Did you ever breed it to a black hen?
YITS,
Cliff
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Ballrollers
1105 posts
Mar 11, 2008
1:39 PM
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From "Pigeon Genetics" by Frank Mosca:
"This andalusian color only shows up on a blue series pigeon (i.e., a blue barless/bar/check which also carries het indigo and spread. A bird in either of the other pigment series (brown or Ash-red) will not be andalusian even though it is spread and het indigo. In fact, indigo will be almost invisible on the bird. Ash-red indigos are fairly difficult to differentiate from simple ash-red birds -- though once one knows what to look for, it is sometimes possible to do so. Ash-red Indigos often show a more "purple" tint to the rump and head than do simple Ash-red birds. Brown indigos are simply sort of “yucky” looking.
If a bird in the blue series is not spread (black) but simply check or bar, het indigo is still obvious, but much less striking in its effects. Normally, the black tail bar is washed out, the checks and wing bar are changed to a bronzy indigo coloration and the blue body color tends to be a bit darker. (One of these birds crossed with a black will give you about 50% andalusian colored birds, depending on whether your black is heterozygous spread or homozygous spread.) So far, we’ve discussed het indigo, but what about homozygous indigo? What does it look like on the bird?
Homozygous means a bird carries two genes for the trait, rather than just one. Some people get confused here and believe female pigeons can’t be homozygous for any color modifying trait. That’s incorrect. Because indigo is non-sex-linked, both males and females may be homozygous for it. Homozygous indigo (homo indigo) produces not the andalusian colored bird, but rather an Ash-red mimic. I’ve seen examples that looked just like ash-red checks or bars. The only difference is that in homo indigo birds, the rump and neck is normally a darker indigo hue than is found in ash-red birds. Some, so much so that they are easily distinguished for what they are, others, however, are so close to Ash-red that specific breeding tests are about the only way to be sure what factor you’re dealing with. Often such ash-red mimics are mated to ash-reds and because indigo is near impossible to determine on the ash-red series, the indigo is carried along completely hidden from the fancier’s view."
Hope this helps.
YITS,
Cliff
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JMUrbon
411 posts
Mar 11, 2008
2:14 PM
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Cliff You got me. I really never cared what color he was just that he produced some great birds for me. I did run him on several black selfs. This birds was also carrying dilute. I got anything from black selfs to cream selfs off this cock along with Rec Reds and blue bars. He was like a slot machine. Never new what I was going to get off of him. His quality rate was well into the 70% area however. Meaning at least 70% of his young were stock quality birds.Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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Ballrollers
1107 posts
Mar 11, 2008
6:02 PM
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Joe
You are right, color doesn't really matter if it spins. Indigo birds are the dominant birds in my own loft, and the top performers, hands down. If I were ever to believe there was a connection between color and performance, I would bet my money on Indigo. Seeing your foundation cock only reinforces that belief. The Indigo factor has been around for several decades and few Roller breeders give the color much thought. The dilute and rec red can cover the indigo to the point , where one never notices it. He was a very good looking bird. Thanks for sharing it with us. Whose loft did he come from?
YITS,
Cliff
Last Edited by on Mar 11, 2008 6:30 PM
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JMUrbon
414 posts
Mar 13, 2008
5:25 PM
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Actually Cliff I bred this bird back in 1989. His parents were off birds that Paul Bradford bred. he was better looking in person. Very intelligent bird. One of the only birds I have ever seen that would pass the time by cleaning hit toe nails. Most will lust walk around with crud on them but this birds would sit there and manicure his feet. Was funny to watch. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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