yang501424
110 posts
Mar 14, 2008
3:47 PM
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I have a question about my birds tail. When he flys hes not opening his tail anymore. Is there something wrong with him?
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spinnin jennys loft
4 posts
Mar 14, 2008
4:06 PM
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he bumped some time and broke it. might get better, probably won't. sorry
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Missouri-Flyer
1499 posts
Mar 14, 2008
6:09 PM
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I have had a few that did as Woody said. They never got over it, and always flew that way..Just keep em' in the air.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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tucknroll
12 posts
Mar 15, 2008
7:09 AM
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A stiff tail is due to a bird coming in contact with another object such as a bird within the kit or a roof of your kit box and or loft. Thier is a cure if you catch it within a 3 day window of time. Simply pull the tail out in that window of time and it will come back. If it isn't pulled within three days of when it was injured it will not. Thier are nerve endings thier that get pinched off and that cause the tail to become stiff. When you pull the tail feathers out simply hold the base of the tail and pull the feathers one at a time. Don't yank them out all at once that really smarts on the bird.
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119
16 posts
Mar 15, 2008
9:18 AM
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Guys, To us "oldtimers" you have what we refer to as a "HUMPTY" they have no tail controll,the tail will become thicker at the body, many of these birds will "rolldown" because the tail serves as a 'brake'Bill Pensom, was going to give the reason for this problem,But the PRC was in the process of throwing him out of the club,he was also going to give his answer to the left hand tail theory, I believe it has something to do with the oil gland,I get "HUMPTYS" on occasion to this day...Some of you guys spoke of 'bumping' this too can give the bird an odd looking tail...119
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colinb
47 posts
Mar 15, 2008
1:01 PM
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maybe just a stiff tail keep him in for a week or so if u let
him out to early the chances are heal bump a gain
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yang501424
111 posts
Mar 15, 2008
3:03 PM
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I think its because he bumped into something in the loft. Hes a breeder and not a flyer. I use open breeding loft system and sometime when i go into the loft they all fly around and guess he bumped.
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Scott
245 posts
Mar 15, 2008
4:38 PM
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The tail does "not" serve as a brake , that is a wives tale.
If you look you will probably see the bruising from hitting myself I like to gently flex them so that they don't get stiff.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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yang501424
112 posts
Mar 15, 2008
5:01 PM
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thats correct the tail does not serve as a brake. i've seen roller roll without a tail without hitting.
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PR_rollers
684 posts
Mar 15, 2008
9:17 PM
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i had 5 black birds one roll nice fast and comes out in another direction and wonders off,so i said i think its this one i pull all his tail feathers out to make sure it was him still does everything the same .he stops he rolls ,the tail didn't make a differet ,maybe it serves as a balance . he is a cull anyway..so the tail does not save a birds life not this one ,lol..
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Ralph....
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119
17 posts
Mar 16, 2008
9:16 AM
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Scott youre probably right about the tail not serving as a brake?????Iwas just curious why the bird spreads it just before landing??OR why it isnt spread during a roll if it isnt a brake, OR why it is spread comming out of a roll???? Or why they even need a tail??? I am shure you know what HUMPTYS are???they are fairly common,,but mabe your birds dont have that problem....WHAT KIND OF BIRDS DO YOU FLY???? You seem to have ALL the answers,to our roller problems,,Iam glad your available to help us along,,How many Trophys do you have???Ill bet your room is stuffed with them,...You must spend a lot of time trying to answer all these posts,and keeping us from using our own mind as to our problems,..What ever you say! "BIG BOSS MAN"...119
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Scott
248 posts
Mar 16, 2008
9:54 AM
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119, the tail is a rudder,that is what tails on birds are for, it wasn't developed through evoulution so that the Birmingham Roller could "brake" with it.
It spreads when they are coming out of the roll due to that is the reaction of the many muscles used to come out of the roll such as the back, there is a reason that weak back birds have a problem.
119 , it is a pretty easy thing to test, but it also pretty easy to assume (tail brake) as it sure looks like the tail is used to brake, it just turns out it just isn't the case though.
If it was , think of the possibilitys, you could cut the tail feathers half was up for more depth !!!.
(I am shure you know what HUMPTYS are???they are fairly common,,but mabe your birds dont have that problem....WHAT KIND OF BIRDS DO YOU FLY????)
Actualy I get very few as I breed more on the stable side, but Of coarse I get one here and there, and I know how to deal with it when I do to get them back tip top.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Mar 16, 2008 10:00 AM
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119
18 posts
Mar 16, 2008
12:40 PM
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Scott, I think the mixup is the word "brake" I do not refer to it as a bird comming to a "screeching stop"There is some truth in what you are saying,the tail is there to help stop and slowdown to land ,and if you want to add your observations "so be it"..AS far as the 'humptys ' they DO NOT RECOVER...EVER...119
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Scott
251 posts
Mar 16, 2008
1:01 PM
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(AS far as the 'humptys ' they DO NOT RECOVER...EVER...119)
Maybe I don't know what a "humpty" is then, I assumed you were talking about a bird with a stiff tail from bumping, please explain ?
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Mar 16, 2008 2:52 PM
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tucknroll
13 posts
Mar 16, 2008
2:42 PM
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Hey Scott,
From what I know of HUMPTY'S they seem to be more prevalent when flying the kit in the middle of the week on Hump Days
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Scott
256 posts
Mar 16, 2008
2:56 PM
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Must be Tuck LOL I'm a little at a loss on what it can be, waiting for 119 to enlighten me.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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tucknroll
15 posts
Mar 16, 2008
6:25 PM
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Scott,
A thought just passed me by! Could it have something to do with "All the kings horses and all the kings men"??
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pacos bill
38 posts
Mar 16, 2008
9:53 PM
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YANG 501424 THIS IS A POST I POSTED IN 8/07 AND WE GOT A LOT OF GOOD FEED BACK ON THE TAIL AND WINGS IF YOU CAN FIND THE ORIGNAL GREAT IF NOT HERE IS A REPRINT OF MY OPION
I am sure most of us have seen the discovery video, of the Birmingham Rollers in flight taped in slow-motion.
This video has caught my interest as I am an aerodynamic aircraft design engineer and race car designer.
I won’t even try to explain why a roller rolls; maybe they just want to showoff like a peacock spreading its tail. Why they roll is not the subject here, this is about the aerodynamic control of the Roller.
The point here is to try and improve performance and control, by breeding with aerodynamics in mind.
I am most likely stepping in front of a MAC-TRUCK on this, but here are my views on the aerodynamics of the roller, and hope to get good experienced feed back, from good breeders.
After watching this video clip many times I do know a little more on how the aerodynamics are set-up by the bird to create the roll.
The bird slows in flight to almost a stall the wings rotate up and turn the lower side of the wing almost 90 degrees to direction of travel, at the same instant the tail fans out about 70% of its maximum spread, and up 130 degrees in the direction of the back of the neck, this putting the bird into a complete stall, the roller now throws its head back starting the roll, the wings beat in a reverse direction kind of like a man doing a back stoke at this point the bird enters the full roll position the wings beating rapidly as wing beat increases the roll velocity increases the roll becomes a spinning blur.
To end the rolling the bird fans its tail very wide maybe 90 to 100 %, it drops back into normal flight position or a little lower maybe 5 to 10 degrees negative this stopping the spin, at the same time the wings rotate back to normal position and stop the fall this is a typical good spinner as it appears to me.
An example of a poor roll is shown in the very start of the clip first bird shown sets up for the roll and is at the stall point but chickens out and pushes it’s head forward and blips its wings to try and break the stall to continue to flying forward and not go into the roll, but its just to late and the bird stalls anyway and does a sloppy half try tumble. (Don’t jump off track here we all know this could be a young bird just starting but lets say for the sake of learning that this is the way this bird performs and is a typical junk bird from a feather merchant.)
With this observation comes some rime and reason to a few points I have herd about good rollers body type and strength free tail movement smaller birds with shorter wing resulting in the bird be able to have a very high wing beat vs. a slower long wing a quick wing beat strong muscles in the tail and neck to stay balled up when the G forces are trying to pull the bird into the open position and strong back muscles to spread the tail to stop the roll, and rotate the wing to stop the fall.
A question if a bird uses up all its strength to stay balled up in the spin will it have the strength or tail spread to stop the roll, maybe this is why the old timers wanted a hard strong body and stiff dark feathers. OH WELL TO SEND OR NOT TO SEND ( I THINK I SEE A TRUCK COMING )
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119
19 posts
Mar 17, 2008
9:16 AM
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I will tell ya, you two guys are absolute riots, you said some of the funniest things Ive ever heard,,I am really suprised that Scott DOES NOT KNOW what I am talking about, WOW ! what an expert! You better quit "leading" these "Newbys" with your theorys, YOU SHOULD WRITE FICTION BOOKS! YOU HAVE REALLY GOT A GREAT IMAGINATION,..I think you an "nip & tuck" should spend more time studying your champion birds,An start making room for ANOTHER "TROPHY" YOU could probably win another one as Comedians I think when NIP 'fell off the wall' he landed on his pointed head an Jumped in our discussion with his ignorant remarks,not knowing he is "out of it"....OH! before I go,IT was on a visit to BILL PENSOM [1966] that HE used the word HUMPTY and we examined a 514 youngster that had never flown,..There was some good information i have,But with the fabulous imagination you guys have ,I dont think I should JUST THROW IT AWAY by posting it....JUST MY OPINION
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Scott
267 posts
Mar 17, 2008
2:56 PM
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119, I believe that you are simply talking about a weak back.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Mar 17, 2008 4:20 PM
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Scott
268 posts
Mar 17, 2008
3:01 PM
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Bill,good post, strong muscles in the back or tail ?
Here is one, stiff tailed birds always loose the qaulity,like off balance or something,yet birds with no tail have no problem loosing quality,wonder why ? I don't know what the answer is, what are your thoughts ?
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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