kopetsa
431 posts
Mar 20, 2008
8:21 PM
|
Hey, (PLEASE READ THE WHOLE THING)
I have to write an argumentative essay (position paper). The teacher who has assigned this paper says he love to learn new things, so i thought about writing it on 'THE BIRMINGHAM ROLLER' (color and flying) I think I will take the flying side and go against color. One reason is The Birmingham "Roller" is suppose to 'roll', and by breeding just to get to color it may not 'roll'. CAN EVERYBODY PLEASE HELP ME OUT WITH SOME IDEAS! (YOUR OPINIONS)
p.s. It will be one more person introduced into this great hobby!
----------
Thank you so much,
Andrew
Last Edited by on Mar 20, 2008 8:22 PM
|
silver tail
24 posts
Mar 20, 2008
8:54 PM
|
George thats what I call a watch dog wish there where more around. If there were we would have a lot less fly problems
Last Edited by on Mar 20, 2008 8:55 PM
|
wafer kits
80 posts
Mar 20, 2008
9:45 PM
|
Hi Andrew;
A suggestion.....whenever you are writing an essay about any subject, pro or con, try writing it in way that is in complete opposition to your own position. You will often find that you have written a much better piece than the one you had in mind defending your own views. Al
|
washington86
342 posts
Mar 21, 2008
12:10 AM
|
You should start an argument HERE. Pretend you're interested in breeding for color. Ask others why they oppose your methods. You will get all kinds of feedback from fanciers that don't breed for colors and those that breed for colors. This will get you a head start to writing your essay.
Last Edited by on Mar 21, 2008 12:10 AM
|
Ty Coleman
87 posts
Mar 21, 2008
5:05 AM
|
You are very much mistaken in your thoughts. Every bird i own has color or carries color genes.I cull 10 foot birds and im starting to raise the bar higher, and some how i still have a loft of color birds.All of the breeders i know have been taged color breeders by a handfull of ignorant people in this sport and we catch alot of ridicule,but for this reason we have been betterd because we cull twice as hard and surpassed the quality of most our oposition. Ty Coleman
|
rollerpigeon1963
228 posts
Mar 21, 2008
9:37 AM
|
Ty,
I am going to comment on this because there is always two sides of a coin. I'm not saying what you do is wrong or right or what I do is the same. But from the past few post you have made comes across as a little bitter.... I haven't seen no one in here so far bash anyone that has color birds. I haven't seen people called ignorant because they have either colored or regular colored birds. I believe there is people on both sides of the coin that will sell you junk!! I believe there is people around that will speak bad of someone and not even know who they are!! and there is people that will do a lot for you if you just ask.
I have been across the United States a few times judging birds. And not one time have I been in someones backyard where someone said your ignorant for having such birds.
Now I have seen where some tell the new guy what they believe and how hard there journey might be if they choose color. Or why make it harder on the new guy for going that way. Now there is some good color birds out there and same with the "True" so called colored rollers. But why do we call someone that enjoys our hobby ignorant?
These people you call ignorant that are "True" color guys have they done anything in the hobby? Like have they been at the top of there game when they flew? and I can bet they were also at the bottom to. Just like the men/women you call color breeders. So why bash or call names to others in our hobby? does this show good judge of character?
Another thing you mentioned you cull twice as hard because some call you a color breeder? I can't believe that you dont cull a cull unless it is one. I only stock one or two birds a year if I'm lucky. I believe I cull harder than the adverage.
Now if your saying you cull twice as hard, does this mean your not using your best? Because if you breed your best quality to your best. You will soon breed less birds because your quality level is where you want it. Then you breed to find what will work the best in the air for you. Now when you stock a bird is it truly your best overall bird? if it is then it should be given the chance to see if it can produce the same. No matter what color!! if it cant reproduce the same do you still work with it?
Like I said I'm not bashing here just asking questions? if you choose not to reply to me either here or private you can call me I'm not that hard to find just look at the inside cover of the NBRC.
Brian Middaugh
Last Edited by on Mar 21, 2008 1:33 PM
|
Ty Coleman
89 posts
Mar 21, 2008
2:59 PM
|
Brian when i say ignorant i mean some one who does not know any better i didnt call them stupid.On this forum and others i have been (ridiculed) and called a color breeder what is your definition of a color breeder? any one who breeds for color. This isnt a show bird site so i dont think there are any color breeders here.and to answer your other question if the bird doesnt produce the goods it is a cull wether breeder or kit bird ive wasted enough time making excuses for birds just because i liked them or there backgrounds. Sorry if i came off bitter but i have only found a few (purebred guys) that aknowledge that a collerd bird can spin as well as there's,and also they love saying when they are beaten those birds will fall apart in a little while.Im not a a## im a likable fellow i just get caught uo in color debates and can't stand to see a bird downed just because of its color. we all like what we like and i dont down anybodys birds.Just the ignorant people that don't aknowledge the facts. Ty
Last Edited by on Mar 21, 2008 5:59 PM
|
Ty Coleman
90 posts
Mar 21, 2008
3:13 PM
|
And now after reading this i will call myself stupid. I ment to post this on kopestas other thread.
|
Scott
277 posts
Mar 21, 2008
3:29 PM
|
Who bashed you Ty? and When?
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
|
Mount Airy Lofts
576 posts
Mar 21, 2008
3:31 PM
|
Ty,
Take a breathe :) Geez... I thought I was bad when I first got into this hobby :)
Don't worry so much of what people say Ty. You know what you have and if that makes you happy so be it.
I'm all ways ripping on my good bud's color stock. He breeds Andys, Opals, and now Almonds. Hell, that hasn't stopped him from breeding even more this year. Go figure. When all is said and done, we are still in it for the same thing... which is to put up the best we have regardless of colors.
Just some thing to think about,
Thor
----------
It's all about the friends we make :)
Last Edited by on Mar 21, 2008 5:10 PM
|
Electric-man
1327 posts
Mar 21, 2008
4:17 PM
|
Sorry that I didn't catch someone bashing you Ty! Your as welcome here as anyone! You are as important as anyone here! I don't breed color, but I respect the guys that do! We got to stay united in this hobby!
I will try to pay more attention!
----------
Val
"Site Moderator"
|
Electric-man
1328 posts
Mar 21, 2008
4:34 PM
|
Excellant post Brian! Good to hear from you, stranger!----------
Val
"Site Moderator"
|
sippi
151 posts
Mar 21, 2008
5:37 PM
|
Kopesta you have picked a very, very tough subject to tackle. I will see if I can find you a list of all the colors True Birmingham's can come in. I personally dont breed for color. I do or thought I did own color birds until I saw all the colors they can come in. There were colors I had never heard of until a week before. Almond is a Birmingham color just not in Pensom's line. Many people do not accept this but the Oriental Roller which was used to make most flying breeds has the almond gene. Flash grizzle is also another color that is on the list I had never heard of it until we had it pop up in some FOR's a week before reading the list I am referring to. You would be better served to slant you article towards the bad effects breeding strictly for color has on the performance of the breed.
Brian Mc you need to post more often. I miss your commentary.
Sippi
|
Ty Coleman
92 posts
Mar 21, 2008
5:44 PM
|
Brian nice post. and like i said if i hurt any feelings i didnt mean ignorant in a bad way i just meant ignorant-to not know something
Last Edited by on Mar 21, 2008 5:47 PM
|
Ballrollers
1118 posts
Mar 21, 2008
9:31 PM
|
Good coaching, Brian! You always have such words of wisdom to share. It looks like he just wrote your article for you kopetsa! LOL!
Ty,
Breeding for the rare colors is not unlike the old baldhead roller guys or anyone who culls white flighted or piebald birds, or guys who breed for recessive reds or mottles.....Anytime you put a favored color or pattern ahead of performance in the mating, you are breeding for color. Some would say that is entirely legitimate in a project side-line and that practice is common in many lofts. And it is no less a sin than breeding unflown birds based on pedigree alone. Neither will get you were you want to be in your breeding program if it dominates your loft or your breding program. Likewise, neither will hurt you if you keep the practice to a minimum, and each can even yield some surprisingly positive, though unexpected, results.
YITS,
Cliff
Last Edited by on Mar 21, 2008 9:32 PM
|
RUDY..ZUPPPPP
1411 posts
Mar 22, 2008
10:08 AM
|
Great post Brian.............
----------
RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
|
Scott
279 posts
Mar 22, 2008
4:21 PM
|
Ty,
Breeding for the rare colors is not unlike the old baldhead roller guys or anyone who culls white flighted or piebald birds, or guys who breed for recessive reds or (mottles.....Anytime you put a favored color or pattern ahead of performance in the mating, you are breeding for color. Some would say that is entirely legitimate in a project side-line and that practice is common in many lofts. And it is no less a sin than breeding unflown birds based on pedigree alone. Neither will get you were you want to be in your breeding program if it dominates your loft or your breding program. Likewise, neither will hurt you if you keep the practice to a minimum, and each can even yield some surprisingly positive, though unexpected, results.
YITS,
Cliff )
Cliff, that was a good no nonsence post! although in the big picture even kept to a min. it is an over all waste of time and perch space,but is it the end of the world to do so ? no
Scott
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
|
ArlenS
86 posts
Mar 24, 2008
12:21 PM
|
Andrew,
My personal opinion is that it may be easier to pick another controversial issue that may be easier to portray and of wider public interest better lending itself to this type of assignment, where the evidence for and against is more accessible (library and internet), factual rather than anecdotal, more obvious and self explanatory to others, and results in an interesting and educational learning experience for yourself and the reader, for example:
*(additional note: never use a sentence as long as the above)
Position on Regulatory Protections of Birds of Prey (BOP)
Pro: - Current regulations protecting BOPs are important and necessary and should be maintained in place
- history of BOP endangered species
- need for and responsibility to continue protect BOP
- need for protections outweighs harm to livestock, other bird species, etc.
versus
Con: Current regulations protecting BOPs are overly and unnecessarily stringent and are not commensurate with current populations of some or most BOP species
- regulations were promulgated in the past during severe BOP population declines due to causes (i.e., DDT) no longer a threat
- some or most species' populations have recovered and are self-sustaining to where they should no longer be considered endangered
- some species may be overpopulated versus historical levels and out of balance with natural prey population levels, resulting in excessive harm to livestock and other bird species (explain harm)
- need for at a minimum, a provision for safe trapping and relocation of problem resident BOP, along with other solutions
Last Edited by on Mar 24, 2008 12:26 PM
|