kopetsa
447 posts
Mar 25, 2008
7:09 PM
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Andrew
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Fire_Baller_916
154 posts
Mar 25, 2008
7:37 PM
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Nope there two totally different breeds...Fireballs are also known as Whittingham Rollers, there known for there high flying, deep rolling ablities...They will fly for hours and hours if you feed them up...I mean all you can eat for them...Fireballs are good for backyard flying only...Some breeders use them for competition but you have to train them to fly with the BR kit and cut down there feed...1 or 2 is good enough to fly with a kit of BR, more will cost the kit to overfly...There fun to watch when you have 20 or more flying as a kit...The more the better...They will kit but not as good as BR...Hope this help...
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Chai Seng (Cheng)
Raining_Fire_Loft
NPRA
www.freewebs.com/raining_fire_loft
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Mongrel Lofts
556 posts
Mar 25, 2008
7:59 PM
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Fire Baller,
I'm sure you have been fowling the debate about the Breed Birmingham roller.. I have a question for you based on what so many of the cross Breeders and color breeders state on here.. If a bird can roll deep and tight, its not a fire ball, its a Birmingham roller according to the rare colored mix breed of rollers. If it rolls good, even if its a Fireball roller. By the definition of the argument, if it performs to the Birmingham roller standard, straight and tight. Then it is a Birmingham roller no matter what breed it is from. In short, what I'm trying to say is this.. It's only a Fire Ball roller if it doesn't roll straight and tight for at least ten feet.. If it does roll in good form.If According to the Mongrel cross breeders, the color breeders and the guys setting the agenda of what a Birmingham roller is. Would have to say, sorry Fire Baller, That is no fire Ball roller. That is a Birmingham roller. No matter what breed of pigeon it is, if it rolls good or great its a Birmingham roller! LOOK, it rolls!! We don't have a breed called Birmingham roller. If it rolls well its a Birmingham roller! Don't you agree? It's a Birmingham roller no matter what breed of pigeon it is?? As long as it rolls? You have to follow the logic of the guys running the national NBRC and WC these days.. They know what is best for the non breed Birmingham roller! To be a Birmingham roller, all you have to do is roll well! No matter what breed of roller you might really be! KGB
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2273 posts
Mar 25, 2008
8:03 PM
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sigh...
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2274 posts
Mar 25, 2008
8:04 PM
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Hey Andrew, what happened to your post?
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
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kopetsa
450 posts
Mar 25, 2008
8:06 PM
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which post Tony??
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Andrew
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2276 posts
Mar 25, 2008
8:08 PM
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#447, the top of this thread...
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
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flo
34 posts
Mar 25, 2008
8:25 PM
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This is no insult to the birmingham roller (which i have) and the Fireball roller (which I have). This is rather a quest for better knowledge to support the background of the rollers that I have. I know that Birmingham rollers originated from Birmingham, England (Correct me if I'm wrong as I have only 3 years closely studying and learning of the history of this breed). I know the Fireball Roller originated from an individual roller and it's strain just happened to carry on (I won't go to much in detail...just google fireball roller) just like the "black rain". Is this correct? So my quesiton is; to make it clear of understanding of the line/time table of the Fireball roller, before Fireball was created, what two rollers were created to make of him? Was it a Birmingham roller (as Mongrel stated) or a different breed of roller? What is the exact blood that made this name Fireball Roller so debating. No disrespect to Chai or Mogrel or any other roller hobbyist, I (personally) would like to get to the beginning of this river...where did it originated. If Mongrel stated, if it is a sloppy but deep roller than it is a Fireball but if it is nice accurate spin/roll than it is a Birmingham roller. So did the gene of the Fireball came from 2 sloppy but deep Birmingham? Please clear the cloud up for me. Again, I would like facts/information...not...trash or insults from one to the other...
much appreciated.
flo
www.blacked-out-loft.webs.com
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lil_jess
83 posts
Mar 25, 2008
8:30 PM
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Read the Reading Room...It might be of help....
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Home of the Admiration of Flying Performing Pigeon
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Fire_Baller_916
155 posts
Mar 25, 2008
10:30 PM
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Mongrel, If you want know more about Fireballs go research it on googles or just go to the Fireballs site and ask the older guys in there that's been around for more info on these 2 birds...Im still new to the hobby and dont want to argue over this...
Raining_Fire_Loft
NPRA
www.freewebs.com/raining_fire_loft
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Fire_Baller_916
156 posts
Mar 25, 2008
10:33 PM
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One more thing Mongrel, would you consider a parlor a BR???
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Chai Seng (Cheng)
Raining_Fire_Loft
NPRA
www.freewebs.com/raining_fire_loft
Last Edited by on Mar 25, 2008 10:34 PM
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ezeedad
414 posts
Mar 26, 2008
3:47 PM
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"Whittingham" By J.V. McAree (1948)
Twenty-five years ago, thirty five years ago and fifty years ago, the name of Whittingham was the best known in the world among Roller breeders. He sent birds FROM Wolverhampton, A SUBURB of BIRMINGHAM, as it might be called, to South Africa, to Australia, the United States, Canada, and wherever else Birmingham Rollers were bred. From about 1905 or 1906, I began importing from Whittingham generally a half dozen pairs a year and never a bad one. Then, in 1910, I was in England and saw a man well past 70 I should think. He had a small, low brick loft in the rear of his house and there were two or three pairs of birds in it. He told me then that the birds I had been buying for several years past had actually been bred by his son, William Whittingham, who lived in Worcester, but that he had been responsible for their description, having seen them fly. Two or three years later, Thomas Whittingham died, and with an interval of four or five years, when I was out of pigeons, I got birds from William Whittingham. Then he died and another Thomas, his son, sold me pigeons for several years. I could see no difference in spinning quality. Eight years ago, I imported some Roller Canaries from Thomas Whittingham, for he was quite a noted exhibitor of them, and I have not heard from him since. In the course of the war, I gave several young Canadian soldiers his address in Worcester, but I have not heard that any of them ever saw him. He must have been one of the greatest Roller masters who ever lived. I know it would have been impossible for me, year after year, to sell a half dozen pair of Rollers of the quality I had from him.
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Alan Bliven
381 posts
Mar 26, 2008
6:44 PM
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The Fireball Roller is a family of the Birmingham Roller, not a seperate breed.
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Alan
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Missouri-Flyer
1542 posts
Mar 26, 2008
7:01 PM
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Hey Alan,
How are ya...Still working dogs?.."GSD's"?
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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kopetsa
455 posts
Mar 26, 2008
7:03 PM
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I just had that one question Tony, so I didn't really post a message! :)
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Andrew
Last Edited by on Mar 26, 2008 7:04 PM
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ezeedad
418 posts
Mar 26, 2008
7:14 PM
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Alan,
Hope you didn't mind my getting that info from your site... Guess I was in a rush to dispell the myth..
Gomez
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katyroller
127 posts
Mar 26, 2008
7:51 PM
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KGB, Your post totally confused me! Are you trying to say that the Whittinghams also known as Fireballs are not related to the BR? I suggest that they are in fact a family of BR's that were bred to a different standard, mainly high flying and deep rolling. The BR of today is not the same as it was twenty years ago and I venture to say that it will not be the same twenty years from now. Brother, take a deep breath and relax.
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Scott
291 posts
Mar 26, 2008
9:16 PM
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(The BR of today is not the same as it was twenty years ago and I venture to say that it will not be the same twenty years from now. Brother, take a deep breath and relax.)
Why isn't it and why won't it be ?
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Alan Bliven
383 posts
Mar 26, 2008
9:40 PM
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ezeedad,
No problem, you may use anything from my site and don't have to ask, just so it's not taken out of context and I know you won't do that.
The main point of that quote was to prove Mr Whittingham actually existed. Some people believe he was a myth.
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Alan
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Alan Bliven
384 posts
Mar 26, 2008
9:48 PM
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Hey Jerry!
I am working with German Shepherds and Belgian Malinois from dual purpose Police Dog lines. I have a pair of adults of each breed and (9) 3 week old pups including 7 Malinois and 2 GSDs. So, I am doing more breeding right now than training.
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Alan
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katyroller
128 posts
Mar 27, 2008
2:14 PM
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Scott, I would say the BR's of twenty years or more ago, were bred to be deeper rolling birds instead of the current trend of shorter and more frequent competition birds. I think that in the future there will be more of a movement to return the breed back to a breed that rolls deeper with better style and speed than what you see in the average kit today. I have heard far too many fanciers worry about how many birds were performing simultaneously rather than speed, quality of roll and depth. This is only my personal opinion.
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Scott
301 posts
Mar 27, 2008
4:03 PM
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Kat, maybe in some circles , but over all I would say that it isn't happening, at least not from I have seen from judging and traveling accross to country, a bird can only go so deep & so fast and only be so frequent and still hold it together quality wise, now granted with some judges a kit of competition tumbers would do very well.
Short frequent kits are pretty boring and if the judge is doing a good job they pay a heavy price where the depth multiplier is concerned and the multipliers can make or break a team bigtime.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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katyroller
129 posts
Mar 27, 2008
5:02 PM
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Scott, I must admit that I have been out of touch with the competition world for several years. I have no reason to doubt what you say so I will say that I am glad that the competition world is showing more interest in the depth and quality of roll. I was into comp. flys in SoCal. during the early 90's and flys were won on how many 1/2 and 3/4 turns kits performed. There wasn't alot of consideration given to depth, speed or roll quality. Alot of high scoring kits were doing nothing more than waterfalling and 5' tumbles.
I believe alot of BR comp fliers are misunderstanding the FB's and Whittinghams of today. The majority of the birds that I see today do not fly as high as they used to nor do they roll as deep as they did in the past. I have also found that most families today kit alot more like the BR families we have today. I believe you would be hard pressed these days to find FB familys that consistently produce roll over 50-60'. Now compare that to good BR families of 20 years ago when 25' plus depths were very common.
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