George R.
430 posts
Mar 27, 2008
9:15 PM
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If everyone wants to do the Hobby, Breed, or a newbie a Favor, dont give away or sell your CULLS.
If everyone gives away culls or sells or donates culls soon the Birmingham Rollers will be Garbage.
if you want to set someone back or start them off on the wrong foot give or sell them your culls.
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lil_jess
84 posts
Mar 27, 2008
9:20 PM
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Words....
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Home of the Admiration of Flying Performing Pigeon
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kopetsa
461 posts
Mar 27, 2008
9:30 PM
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Well said George!
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Andrew
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SiDLoVE
211 posts
Mar 27, 2008
9:43 PM
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Also...be smart cause you give stock away that you could had used... , and the new guy pissed them away ..flew them away....sold them or later got rid of them ...so make sure you know the newbie and how serious he is ..dont be played for a fool either
God Bless...
siDLOve
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elopez
870 posts
Mar 27, 2008
10:01 PM
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Yea Sid, especially if they are the Lopez/Sid cross. The newbie might not be able to handle that kind heat! Lol
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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RUDY..ZUPPPPP
1432 posts
Mar 28, 2008
4:00 AM
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Well said George....
RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
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George R.
432 posts
Mar 28, 2008
6:24 AM
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Bertie
you dont have Culls ? Are you sure your not Pensom reincarnated?
Last Edited by on Mar 28, 2008 6:24 AM
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Missouri-Flyer
1550 posts
Mar 28, 2008
6:49 AM
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Bert,
A cull is any bird that doesnt perform to the highest capacity of what is expected of a Birmingham Roller..A cull does not mean that it automatically dies upon not being able to perform. There are many uses for culls, including but not limited to:..use as foster parents, use in a lesser kit "B or C team", give to dog trainers, and yes, even to eat....So you saying that you dont have culls, is in my opinion, an inexperienced remark on your part..We all have culls, every single pigeon breeder in the world!
Just because you dont eat your culls, doesnt make them not culls...Just remember what this topic means..Dont give anyone culls that are wanting to see performance..they will be disappointed...
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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flo
41 posts
Mar 28, 2008
7:29 AM
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Bert I'm still a newbie but I think what George is saying is that, if you( someone who breeds the birmingham roller to the best of its' standard to be call a true "Birmingham roller") must not give away rollers that hasn't prove the quality ;of that of a True Birmingham roller, to a newbie. For if done so; (giving away culls), the person on the receiving end may have high expectation only to see the failure of that breed which he/she was given for free. By doing so, many who are given culls will downgrade the value of a true Birmingham roller mistakening flips for rolls. Those who give away cull may think they are helping a person in need of ; what they may consider to be an elite acrobatic bird in the skies, a roller (or interested to begin in the hobby)are actually going to disappoint the person (the newbie). So the point George is saying (also Sidlove)m if someone who is really really in need of a starting point in the hobby; should you decide to give, give a roller which you know holds the standards of the true Birmingham roller...and when given, that person must be of some trust and not some kid/ dude off the street who will trash your lifelong, hardworking, dedication of that bird to elsewhere you may never get it back.
I think this is what George and the rest of the other guys are saying.
Giving away culls is bad but selling culls are even worse, and when I first got back into the hobby not knowing strains and lines and dedication of the lines in each bird, I have been sold culls and spent $$$, to my disatisfaction, I never gave doubt in the True Birmingham roller and did my research and so should everyone.
Thanks.
flo
www.blacked-out-loft.webs.com
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Missouri-Flyer
1551 posts
Mar 28, 2008
7:31 AM
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Your here for the knowledge, and that is good to see. Keep it up and you will continue to progress.
I read alot of the old threads, and learn something new everytime..If you get bored, and have some time on your hands, look back at some posts from a year or 2 ago..Alot of info there, and some of those guys are not around this site anymore, but their knowledge is something that will remain.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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gabe454
653 posts
Mar 28, 2008
7:59 AM
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Hey george good post i agree with you ive been burnt so many times not even funny but know i got hold of some realy good birds finaly it amazes me how many people sell thier culls to people first starting out its wrong.dont get me wrong ive got some real good birds from this fine fine roller who i know very well my buddy hector coya,henry ramos,eddie verdugo,sal estrada just want to thank these people for helping me aquire good stock rom thier lofts and starting me off the right foot.
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454
TRIPLE "G" LOFT
L.P.R.C
Last Edited by on Mar 28, 2008 8:00 AM
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DUCKS N ROLLERS
120 posts
Mar 28, 2008
1:28 PM
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Hi george,
I agree with you, giving culls to newbies in the hobby is not doing them any favors.
it will only end in frustration and they will get out of the hobby just as fast as they got in it. the hobby will never grow with people dealing that way.
I was lucky..........last year when i got back into rollers I got birds from two different people and they both were
reputible and honest.
I got good birds and now im having fun.
and thats what its all about.
thanks george/tony
mike barry
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Hector Coya
74 posts
Mar 28, 2008
2:10 PM
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I think culls have a place in our hobby,lets say a 13 year old boy from around the block comes over and wants to start flying rollers.you know it will take at least 2 years for him to figure ot how to make them work.In that time he can get bored and get out of pigeons,or he will loose many birds trying to fly in the wind ,late in the afternoon,and many other problems that come with a newby.
I think if you give a newby a few culls to teach him how to caer for them,in time they will be ready for good birds, but i think everyone needs to work their way there.
Ive seen too many newbys try and start on top,only to get frustrated and get rid of them anyway, So why give away real good birds if the person that is receaving them is not ready for that high quality.
My Opinion.
Hector Coya
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Velo99
1639 posts
Mar 28, 2008
4:49 PM
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Just gonna shed a little light on the subject.
Guy who has been raising birds forever,does well in the flys has some culls. Gives em to a guy who has been in for 2 years. They will probably be better than anything newguy has. Sometimes a cull isnt a cull. Sometimes it is just a bird that doesnt use the same amount of feed as the rest. It does`nt have "it" as a roller. Nothing wrong just doesnt work for you and your program. Perch space,you just have better birds than this one. There are a number of reasons for culling a bird. If a guy has been raising birds forever and he has some "culls" ya better grab em. The only reason they were`nt immediately enlightened was he thought it might have a chance to get better in time.
Sometimes a different environment and handling will bring performance out in a bird. Ya know it is 50% handling. Sometimes a little more age will do the trick too. In my loft and with my birds I know what might come around and what might not. Sometimes I dont feel like messing with a particular group of birds because they just dont thrill me. Now another guy just might look at em and have a diferent idea what to do. Might work,might make a nice BBQ. Ya neer know what ya get til ya play with em for a while.
Personally a bird thats stupid and shows no improvement as a roller or keeps breaking the rules. He is gone to birdy heaven. The rest I feel might have a chance in someone elses hands.
jmho
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V99
Keep the best. Eat the rest.
Last Edited by on Mar 28, 2008 5:25 PM
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DeepSpinLofts
477 posts
Mar 28, 2008
5:00 PM
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Well said Hector.
MEMO: A man who does not think for himself does not think at all.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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George R.
434 posts
Mar 28, 2008
5:35 PM
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I would give a kid some squeekers before I give him Culls.
But thats just me . I think I owe it to the Birds and fancy that has given me so much.
MEMO : If the Birds are RUBBISH in my backyard then they will also be RUBBISH in your backyard.
Last Edited by on Mar 28, 2008 5:37 PM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2294 posts
Mar 28, 2008
9:08 PM
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Hey Bert, with all due respect, some people are pigeon keepers and others are pigeon fanciers. Which side you fall on decides what you do with a "cull".
No one is immoral or more moral being either one. As far as making the above your last post, that is your choice. But since when did having to agree 100% determine our association with one another?
If my wife and I followed that philosophy, Joni would have kicked me out years ago! Stick around my friend.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
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Velo99
1640 posts
Mar 29, 2008
7:13 AM
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Gee Bertie,
Lighten up bro. Culling inferior stock is the normal practice of animal husbandry. I wish I could raise 100% keeper stock.
The point I made which EVERYONE in this thread seemed to run right over was if you give the birds away that still have some use to a fancier that can use them,it reduces the number of birds that are actually dispatched in a humane way. Your birds your feed,but dont push your morals on someone else.
Now if you want to think we`re all a bunch of cruel buttholes,you`re in the wrong hobby.
jmho
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V99
Keep the best. Eat the rest.
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George R.
439 posts
Mar 29, 2008
7:19 AM
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Bert
since you have made up your mind about me , let me tell you a little more about my training methods .
I give every Bird a fair shot to make the grade. I sometimes think I give them to much of a chance to correct thier problems before I decide to get rid of them.
I dont just get rid of them for the Love of it .
I invest time and money into every bird raised here at my loft and I see it as a minor setback when a Bird dont make the grade.
But why would I give someone Bird(s) that I already moved down to other kits or fed up or cut the feed and the problem still persisted
I dont consider that a favor to any one.
Last Edited by on Mar 29, 2008 7:45 AM
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elopez
886 posts
Mar 29, 2008
10:55 AM
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I don't get too many birds that make it long enough to be culled, but if I do get one I make sure it's the one the Hawk has his eye on.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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Windjammer Loft
261 posts
Mar 29, 2008
3:29 PM
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List....if it makes any difference, I tried to explain to Bertie what the word CULL ment in another forum. I gave him the defination right from the dictionary. Also telling him it was necessary in animal husbandry but,He apparently got offended by the defination and that many pigeon fanciers use that TERM. As a result of me trying to help him to understand, he got me removed from another forum temporarily. SO, be careful what you say to him. He is the kind of person that I can do without. Hey GEORGE, I got your back on this one buddy.....
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Mar 30, 2008 2:13 PM
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kopetsa
467 posts
Mar 29, 2008
3:48 PM
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Wow, George, I didn't know that everybody else knew about reincarnation. lol
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Andrew
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bertie
135 posts
Mar 29, 2008
4:06 PM
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Well you got me in the back this time Paul. I haven't ever been kicked from any forum, I just chose not to post anymore because of people like you that don't understand where I'm coming from.
Another thing. If you have to be careful about what your saying to anyone, maybe your doing something wrong that your trying to hide.
Bert
Sorry I read Paul's post about being kicked from another forum wrong. I thought he said I got kicked. But I did say something about his post, but so did a few dozen other people. So watch out for all of those people too Paul.
Last Edited by on Mar 30, 2008 10:17 AM
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PR_rollers
750 posts
Mar 29, 2008
9:40 PM
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If you wanna make it in this roller game with birds that would make you or anybody proud of having in your possession the genuine spinning Birmingham roller.you have to cull hard hard hard and hard. you are breeding livestock not pets..you want a pet, feed that bird all he wants and call that bird to you see if that bird comes to you after he ate..if he does you got yourself a pet....
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Ralph....
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birdman
520 posts
Mar 29, 2008
11:11 PM
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I look at culling in the same way I look at pulling weeds.
Weeds get just as much feed,water, and care as the rest of my plants until I discover that they are in fact weeds. Once identified they are removed and disposed of.
Pigeon Culls are nothing more than feathered-weeds that need to be removed and disposed of for the benefit of the flock.
My opinion.
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bertie
136 posts
Mar 30, 2008
3:56 AM
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"Livestock is the term used to refer (singularly or plurally) to a domesticated animal intentionally reared in an agricultural setting to make produce such as food or fibre, or for its labour. The term generally does not include poultry or farmed fish."
I realize this for me is a touchy subject. I had my first pair of pigeons at 5 and raised them for most of my young life until mid 30 when I moved into the city.
I love watching them fly. Just to think that those birds up there preforming for me will be back in my loft depending on me for food, water and a safe place to roost. Kind of like my cat. He goes out hunting all night but comes back in the morning for a safe place to nap and eat.
I know I've ruffled a few(seeing how theirs quite a click here with people probably more than a few) feathers. I'm sorry for that but I don't really care to fit in clicks anyway. I prefer to think for myself although I need others opinions to make sure I'm doing things right.
I know what culling means and I see that it is important to use the best birds you have to get the best birds you can. But I don't have to eat my birds and I don't want to kill them. I will give them away as PIGEONS not rollers. Just for kids to watch them fly and learn how to be responsible for taking care of a pet. I might even give them to the local zoo for feeders. But I won't be the one killing them. And as far as being my pets. Sorry that is what they are.
I can't help that I love my pets and try to take care of them the best I can and I'm sorry that I have ruffled some feathers in the process of my love for pigeons.
So eat, shoot, pull the heads off do what ever it is turns you on. I know some people get a real thrill out of killing animals for some reason. But that's not for me, Sorry!
This site is great for information and is ran very well. I also see that it also is a good place for mis information as some people come here just to put others down that don't think in the way they do.
The other forum that someone says I got kicked out of never happened but now people here think I did. Again I don't really care what others think, just how to make my hobby the most fun for me and do it right to get highest quality Birmingham Rollers I can.
So I guess if you don't like me for having a different opinion and wanting my pet rollers to be as good as your food rollers oh well, Sorry!
Bert
Last Edited by on Mar 30, 2008 4:01 AM
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Ty Coleman
140 posts
Mar 30, 2008
5:23 AM
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Bertie cool your jets,i dont think that anyone hear gets a kick out of culling birds not everyone hear eats there culls,youve seen on this post other people ideas on what to do, this has all been opinions it should be read and processed in your mind and then make your own choice.As for the click comment this is a roller forum we are ALL ROLLEMAN here we should be a click i disagree with a handfull that are here but they are still like i am a rollerman.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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bertie
137 posts
Mar 30, 2008
6:48 AM
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My jets are cooled Ty,
I was just stating my opinion. If you go back and read my last post you would read " I know some people get a real thrill out of killing animals for some reason." that meaning I know these people and they go out and just shoot anything that moves just to see if they can kill it.
As far as a click. I've posted many questions and I have noticed some of the people here don't even pay any attention to. But if someone in the "click" posts they can't write enough for them.
But that's all right because I have got tons of GREAT advice here and on the other Forum on things I needed to know. And I'd like to thank all of you for your great advice and knowledge on raising the best flying Birmingham Rollers that I can.
I started with a few great lines and keeping them separate because they are so different.
Don't worry someday down the road after several years of training and getting rid of birds that don't roll well, I'll be kicking some butt in some competition! Well I would hope I could.
Bert
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sidro01
4 posts
Mar 30, 2008
7:20 AM
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Giving a cull could be like the puppy-millers that sell dogs as pedigree, healthy,animals.Passing trash just leads to more problems within any breed, organization or program.Plus it leads to the degradation of the genes of any animal.Including humans,dogs,horses,etc.Hell if we all just took are culls and passed them on as quality stock we would be no better than a shady used car salesman.But on the other hand.Culls that are healthy can be a good training tool for young kids,4-h clubs,bird hunters etc.As long as the birds are not misrepresented as being quality stock or something they are not.When I was a kid we gave ours to an old lady that loved to eat them.Meat is meat and it is all fine to eat.Depends on the palate.
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Windjammer Loft
264 posts
Mar 30, 2008
7:29 AM
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First of all,go back to my first post, lets get this straight. I (ME) was temporarily removed from another forum. After giving Bertie the defination of CULL. Secondly, with this statement made. "Again I don't really care what others think, just how to make my hobby the most fun for me and do it right to get highest quality Birmingham Rollers I can", without a culling process YOU will NEVER atain the highest QUALITY of rollers. Like Ty said, you'll get many opinions. Its up to you to decide, then pick which ones that you can apply to your style. Lastly, I DON'T know where you get OFF saying that rollerman get a thrill out of killing our birds. Now, thats just rediculious. I don't know of any fancier that gets a thrill out of killing a (cull bird) roller. Bertie just get over it.....
to
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Mar 30, 2008 2:11 PM
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bertie
139 posts
Mar 30, 2008
8:14 AM
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I am over it Paul but you have a way of putting your words in others mouths.
I'm just going to let this subject die now after I have you read my last post or any of them. I never said I know any roller men that like killing there birds. I said I know some guys that like killing anything that walks just for fun. There isn't even any roller men around for hundreds of miles for me to know.So I don't know any roller men except the people here.
After saying that, make any comments you like. I'm not posting on this subject any longer everyone knows where I stand. I love my pigeons, but not to eat.
Bert
Last Edited by on Mar 30, 2008 2:26 PM
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George R.
446 posts
Mar 30, 2008
8:21 AM
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Bert
Its a choice we all have as breeders. Nothing more.
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Hector Coya
75 posts
Mar 30, 2008
8:35 AM
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In my 30 years of flying and breeding rollers',i would say more than half the people i met starting out, got out of rollers within 3 to 4 years,usualy the once that stay are the kids,I remember starting a guy that i worked with.
I let this guy borrow 3 original Bob Scott stock pairs,i told him to breed them and fly the young.
4 months later i whent to his house and to my surprize,he tryed to fly the breeders and still had the young in the loft,he said he couldnt tell them apart.
If i whould have given him a few CULL's just to practice,he could have learned how to home them and many other thing.He gave me the young about a year later,he said it wasnt for him.
Hector Coya
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George R.
449 posts
Mar 30, 2008
9:25 AM
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Hector
I remember that one, Thats a Classic.
You might be Right there are people that wouldnt know a Bird even if it got in Bed with them LOL.
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Hector Coya
76 posts
Mar 30, 2008
9:32 AM
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George
Thers alway exeptions.Remember Spencer, Hes about 80,started 10 years ago and now puts a hell of a kit for comp,
Hector Coya
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George R.
450 posts
Mar 30, 2008
9:44 AM
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Yes Spencer does put up some nice kits.
Spencer started out right thou when he got Birds from you he got 4 Birds that were related and never mixed any ones Birds with them.
He did not go out and gather Birds from all types of strains and diffrent lofts like a lot of people do when they start .
I often try to tell people that they should stick with one strain .
If you notice some guys still gather Birds from all over the place .
Last Edited by on Mar 30, 2008 9:45 AM
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Phantom1
191 posts
Mar 30, 2008
12:44 PM
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Hey Paul,
Just a bit of clarification as to the events on the "other forum". You weren't kicked off by any means. You were temporarily suspended due to the remark you posted regarding puppies. You were advised what would and would not be allowed on the forum pertaining to this topic, and your account was re-instated. Hope this helps clarify any confusion.
Thanks,
Eric
Last Edited by on Mar 30, 2008 1:11 PM
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pacos bill
41 posts
Mar 30, 2008
12:55 PM
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What’s a cull? Don’t pull heads too soon. I have a white red saddle I got as a young bird, it rolled a lot, about 9 times a minute, but slow and one to two turns deep, and was destined for the cull team. I talked to the breeder and He said the bird had good blood, and was from the Red Headed Hen line, so we kept flying her, well she made it thru the fly season and did not improve but as 1 of 16 left out of over 70 young birds we raised or purchased last year (Thanks to the BOPs) it mated its self in the kit box (too much feed) to a black old blood line Smith, and we let them raise a couple rounds. The Smith got Eaten while we were trying to fly them out. We are flying her young in the kit this week for the first time and after a few days and some tail sliding they started rolling with speed and depth of 5 ft not bad for a 4 mo old. Note the cock was not real hot but did not live long enough to mature out to what a Smith requires.
The point is if the bird has the genes try it before you judge it. I almost culled this bird now it seams it may stay pending what the young prove out to be, hope they don’t get eaten before they mature
PACOS BILL
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George R.
453 posts
Mar 30, 2008
1:06 PM
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Hello Pecos Bill
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Windjammer Loft
266 posts
Mar 30, 2008
2:24 PM
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List.....if you go back and reread my posts. Both state that I was temporarily removed. Sorry if people can't deal with the truth. Thats just a fact of life... Just my OPIINION and thats all my statements are MY OPINION. You can take them or leave them. They belong to me. If you don't care for them, LEAVE them alone and go about your business. I'll just pick who I give advise to from now on.
Have a great day.
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
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George R.
455 posts
Mar 30, 2008
2:36 PM
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hey Paul
I like to read your opinions when I post . If by ever chance we dont agree on something you know that we are still friends.
I dont expect everyone to agree with me since im still a novice.
THERE ONLY PIGEONS LOL
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Phantom1
192 posts
Mar 30, 2008
2:43 PM
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Paul,
I read your post thoroughly prior to you editing them. I'm glad you understand that it was a temporary situation though. Why you'd bring that up in another forum is questionable however.
Thanks,
Eric
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bertie
141 posts
Mar 30, 2008
2:54 PM
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Good post Eric, I thought some wording had been changed.
Bert
Last Edited by on Mar 30, 2008 2:54 PM
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Ty Coleman
141 posts
Mar 30, 2008
2:59 PM
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Hey Bertie you posted again lol-just kidding you
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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bertie
142 posts
Mar 30, 2008
3:18 PM
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I know I can't help myself. I need help but you all know that all ready.
Bert
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George R.
458 posts
Mar 30, 2008
4:03 PM
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Bert
stick around buddy were all just a Big melting pot in here.
Sometimes I think I am some bitter seasoning LOL
Remember that old saying " Different strokes for different Folks "
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