spinner jim
261 posts
Mar 30, 2008
7:47 AM
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Great post RP,i totally agree with you,whats the point of breeding just to kill the majority and retain the minority,when i started out to obtained stock from wherever you could and cherished them,i have never culled healthy birds its against my principles and i suggest people that do should find another hobby,Jim UK, (the home of the true roller breeder).
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Windjammer Loft
265 posts
Mar 30, 2008
7:57 AM
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Brian......This has to be one of,if not the TOUCHEST subject. I think the word CULL in itself, is the PROBLEM word.... If you look up the definitation, it doesn't mention anything about KILLING of animals, just the REMOVAL of. And I think in that, thier lies the PROBLEM. To many people get the wrong idea when they first hear the word CULL. Remember it means to REMOVE from, not to KILL. I think in general, when fanciers of any hobby are talking about CULLS, they all are on the same page with what it means. And that is.....to remove a certain species from their program. How they do that is entirely up to that individual... Otherwise GREAT post Brian..
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Mar 30, 2008 8:05 AM
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bertie
138 posts
Mar 30, 2008
8:05 AM
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I just got this from the Wikipedia, encyclopedia. "Culling is the 'selection' (removing or killing) of surplus animals from an animal population."
Maybe Paul you should read it again, this is what it means.
And I am sorry for reading your post wrong about getting kicked off the other forum, I thought you said I did! But I know you didn't either. End of that story.
Bert
Last Edited by on Mar 30, 2008 8:31 AM
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George R.
448 posts
Mar 30, 2008
9:19 AM
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if it was up tp P.E.T.A. I would have to stop eating Chicken , Beef, Fish, Bacon.
I dont think anyone has the right to tell me or any one else what we should or should not eat.
As far as Humane treatment of Animals I am all for that.
But if I choose to have a Ribs (Moms on Imperial hwy) or a Fish or a Chicken Salad ( Tams on Long Beach Blvd in Compton) or Chicken and Waffles ( Roscos on Western) or eat some pigeons Breast then that is my Business .
Last Edited by on Mar 30, 2008 9:23 AM
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Alohabirds
135 posts
Mar 30, 2008
11:56 AM
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Good post Brian,
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Aloha, Dexter
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Missouri-Flyer
1555 posts
Mar 30, 2008
5:11 PM
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Brian,
Tho I agree with most of what you had to say, I think you are looking way to hard at the word "cull"...
My question to you is:.. what do you do with your tree sitters, non-flyers, roll-downs, injured birds, etc.?
We all cull, or should be, or we would end up with more birds than we know what to do with.
Cull means to get rid of what doesnt work for you..The way you get rid of them is up to each person.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
Last Edited by on Mar 30, 2008 5:11 PM
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rollerpigeon1963
240 posts
Mar 30, 2008
6:45 PM
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Jerry,
This isn't how I look at culls but I want to see what everyone thinks about them. What I do with my hard core culls I deal with myself. I don't need to express them on a forum for all to read and pass judgement.
But I see some on here say oh I fly them hard and cull even harder and you notice they are trying another family of birds. Or maybe because they can't raise birds and have to use someone elses birds.
I just wanted to spread some light on the subject. Some say they shouldn't give away cull but all in all we are basically buying them when we buy or get a kit of young birds. Its not the original breeders fault but there still could be culls.
Some people complain about people selling culls! I have been burnt with culls before in the past all it did was make me smarter and not be as lazy. Made me do my homework and really know what I want and what I'm looking for.
What this all boils down to is: Do your homework and make sure before you buy or sell you know about what to expect!! If your buying is it from someone who has a good track record {Comps and honest} or if your giving away birds are they really in the hobby or are they a fly by night?
Jerry I do my share of culling and I only stock 1 to 2 birds a year out of 100. I also believe if you don't cull you will never be on top of your game. I have lived with AR's, PETA, and threatening phone calls because of the animals I use to keep. When all this stuff was going on with the other club I was getting phone calls at 4am telling me my loft was on fire. Or having a school teacher make things harder on your kids because of what kind of poultry your dad has in the backyard. I lived it and I wouldn't wish it on no one. But when you see things on here about how many people cull and what they do with them all it shows me is red flags. Except for eating them because I don't see where they could find a problem with that. But the other stuff well I will leave it alone. Just like when people use to talk about the BOP problems. They were open about it and now look at them.
But trust me I cull and its my business what I do with them. Who knows I might even eat them but again thats my backyard LOL LOL.
Jerry I was just showing people how extreme things can be looked at and when you add the fuel to the fire it can get ugly.
Best of luck and hope you have many rewards in the nestbowls.
Brian Middaugh
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Missouri-Flyer
1559 posts
Mar 30, 2008
6:52 PM
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Ha Brian,
I know you better than to think that your other response was how you truely felt...LOL
I understand where your coming from.. I try to keep my program very simple. I fly every bird that makes it into the kitbox, and then decide on where it goes. This year I bought 100 bands, and am gonna try to use them all. I am sending Val a few birds, and have another friend that will be getting some also. I was very fortunate to meet the guys I have that gave me my start, and I want to share the wealth with those that are needing it.
This hobby for me is just another way to relax, and enjoy another day of living. None of us have unlimited time on this earth, so do as you can to show others that you are greatful for what you have.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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Bill C
89 posts
Mar 30, 2008
7:45 PM
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Brian, I disagree with your second paragraph. Can someone tell me a sqeaker kit that you breed from is not all culls. No they are not all culls even if you did not see them fly and perform for two years.
You might have bought the best bird that guy raised that year and he did not know it. But you will find out if the parrents of such birds are culls by flying out the offspring and picking your best in the air for the future breeding stock. That is a great way to get started in my oppinion.
Who including you will sell or give away their absolutely best bird? If we are honest with each other, then we are in no way going to sell our best one or two birds. Right. Let face it, guys have to breed their own Stock birds. There are a few exceptions when a friend gives a friend some good birds but even that is not their best.
I had once bought a few birds from Cole Hatcher selling his Fathers Tom Hatcher pure plona and leroy smith birds. I knew they were not pure anything today. But he talked how deep and fast they were so I thought I would buy a few and he said he only had a few left and he was moving to Canada. Well he has an add in the NBRC magazine right now selling more from a P O Box address. That was not his fault for finding another sucker. I didnt need the birds but just wanted to see if they were as good as he said. Nope!
I have gotten some squeakers from Joe Borges and did not fly them out. They are giving me a high percentage of good rollers. Way better than the kit birds I had bought from Leonard T who had some good Jac's. Joes birds are more stable and I just like the style and velocity some of them have. I get some culls too. One of the cocks or hens throw me more out birds from a pair than I like to have so I have to switch the pairs around figure that out on my own. But in the mean time I have 40 or 50 from last year to pick out of the air and I don't have anyguy telling me that one is not for sale.
THis is why most guys told a nother guy to breed from some birds he got from Tony. A good solid family will thow you some real decent birds to chose future stock from. The guy said he will fly them out and if he loses them he will buy some more as he can't breed rollers because of the dust problems with his health.
SO there you have it. All squeakers are not culls if not flown out.
Remeber even a champ in the air might not be the one that thows the champs. So in some ways you might have and advantage to not having favor on a paticular bird or birds and not give a different one a chance.
I flew my A team today and the best bird was a dark red check cock. I want to put him in the breeding pen after the WC. He came from two unflown squeakers three years ago.
I tell guys; all the time they have to breed their own stock birds and this is just one way to do it. My hat goes off to guys who sell squeaker birds like Tony. It's up to us to fly them out or breed them. Depending on your wallet and time. Bill C
Last Edited by on Mar 30, 2008 7:47 PM
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rollerpigeon1963
241 posts
Mar 30, 2008
8:25 PM
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Bill,
you missed my point all together. I was making a statement about some one who said you should never give culls away. And when you have a baby kit of squeaks you can have all champions or 1/2 or even none. But you are taking a risk when you get them just as the original breeder himself.
Brian
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2802 posts
Mar 30, 2009
2:03 PM
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Great post .....Brian Middaugh hope everything is good with you and family bro..miss your butt on this site so I had to go read on some of your old post lol...
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Ralph.
miss opportunity are the curse of potential well if opportunity is not knocking you build the door...
Last Edited by on Mar 30, 2009 6:43 PM
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Oldfart
930 posts
Mar 30, 2009
5:46 PM
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Brian, A cull is dependant on your perspective. As you pointed out and I agree, to a fledging fancier irregardless of his chronological age, your culls might be his best! I also agree, what happens in my loft is my concern and to some extent should be private. For some the only start possible is with untested birds and largely, success or failure is dependent on the integrity of the breeder you obtain your start from. I do however think that giving birds away that you know have issues is wrong and can do unrepairable damage. As adults we are expected to deal with life's disappointments but as fledglings dreams are a fragile thing. My point would concur with yours with a small change. Yes encourage newbies but not at their expense, I would never give away a bird just to avoid my responsibilities and I know, nether would you.
Thom
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Pumpkin Man
80 posts
Mar 30, 2009
6:12 PM
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It's harder for some to cull than others. We all like watching them hatch training, etc. But it's a necessary thing. When I was a kid I had a Doberman kill a bunch of baby chicks and I was mortified and cried for days. As I got older my grandpa told me not to name in of my calves because it would be too hard for me too sell them when they got older. Therefore I became hardened and less sensitive about the end result. You basically have two groups of people the pet people and the competitive breeder/flyer. Pet people have trouble culling so they give away or continue accumulating animals which is not always best for the animals either especially if you have too many for the amount of room you have. Having put cattle I've fed everyday in my freezer is not hard at this point but it would be nearly impossible for the pet person. One is not better than the other just has a different sensitivity than another. Most of my granfather's generation that came through a depression never became pet people they became survivalists. I suppose that's why I was raised the way I was.
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toronto15
134 posts
Mar 30, 2009
8:09 PM
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Great post Rollerpigeon1963. I couldn,t agree with you more on the fact that theres nothing wrong with giving birds away to kids,as long as there folks are cool with it. It,s not like there going to become competition flyers all of a sudden. There just kids,learning the basics of the pigeon hobby,learning responsibilites,having fun and possibly keeping them out of trouble. I personally don,t no anyone who didn,t start out as a kid in this game. There will always be culls,yet you can use a percentage of them to re-populate the future pigeon fanciers whether they be rollers,racers,fantails or whatever enthusiasts. Starting out with healthy birds is a hell of a lot better than starting with unhealthy plugs.Glen.
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