sundance
598 posts
Apr 02, 2008
6:50 PM
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Just wanted to share a thought. I was just reading about the ideas of picking breeders from the air, vs. picking from the perch.
Quite frankly, I never got the idea of picking from the perch or on the ground. I thought, this was a talent reserved only for the true masters, (of which, I am not ).
Then a few moments ago, as I was doing some reading, BAM! ,it hit me.
FIRST...you have to pick them from the air to have them in the loft.DUH!
SECOND... THEN, you can pick them from the perch (or the ground, so to speak,) IN THE LOFT !
Now to do this, you still have to know what you are looking for. TYPE! color balance, expression, etc... How are they related and so forth. A deep bird to a less deep bird.
What designates your picks depends partially on what you are trying to create in your birds.
I think,... maybe I took one step forward today. Now tomorrow, I`ll probably take one step back....
Just wanted to share a thought. LOL
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Butch @
Sundance Roller Lofts
Last Edited by on Apr 02, 2008 6:52 PM
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PR_rollers
809 posts
Apr 02, 2008
7:17 PM
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You got it Sundance,now you on your way to becoming the Master .but don't take that step backwards keep going forward.good luck..
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Ralph....
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Velo99
1648 posts
Apr 02, 2008
7:26 PM
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Butch,
Personally I would think one would be looking for "matching" characteristics. If the bird is a leader in the air where does he perch? How does he act?
Back of the kit laggards? Lower perches,geting knocked around by the cockbirds?
To some degree the pecking order in the kitbox can reflect the positon in the air simply by the physical,sociological and psychological traits of each particular bird.
yits
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V99
Keep the best. Eat the rest.
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Scott
326 posts
Apr 02, 2008
8:38 PM
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Butch , on the perch is where you balance out the physical and mental aspects of the birds , out of the air well into maturity teaches you the strengths and the weaknesses of the bird , stocking youngbirds or unflown birds and you know nothing.
Honestly I think that stocking an unflown bird is better in many ways than stocking some super star young bird.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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kcfirl
396 posts
Apr 02, 2008
10:44 PM
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Scott,
man you are confusing some times buddy. But I'm still your friend anyway!
Ken
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Scott
327 posts
Apr 03, 2008
6:03 AM
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Ken I knew that last sentence would throw many, but I threw it in there for a reason.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Dave Szab
132 posts
Apr 03, 2008
10:59 AM
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Hey Ken,
C'mon, you know that Scott is always confusing, not just sometimes. Stocking unflown birds? Next he'll be crossing in some blue lace! LMAO.
Dave
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Ballrollers
1122 posts
Apr 03, 2008
12:14 PM
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I think what Scott is saying is that stocking a super star young bird, while validating performance alone, leaves many important variables open to question; such as type, character and expression. Stocking a mature unflown bird bird out of good stock, that has had time to develope, may leave some question about the performance. But if the rest of the package is present; character, type, expression, etc., there may be less potential for trouble in the offspring and greater potential for decent offspring. Scott, obviously puts a lot of stock in type, character and expression in his family, and can afford to rely on his tightly inbred family that is capable of producing a high percentage of birds that perform. So he can make a statement like that about his own birds. Few men have a mature and tightly controlled breeding program that will yield the high percentages of performance to have the confidence to make a statement like that. I prefer neither; stocking unflown birds or young bird superstars. At my stage of the game, I need to see the goods on the perch in the loft in a mature bird, and in the air. I want as few varialbes as possible. I have seen too many birds out of good stock that look and act the part, but are culls in the air. And like Scott, I have seen a few super star young birds that never develope the type, character or expression that you are looking for as they mature.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Apr 03, 2008 12:55 PM
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sundance
599 posts
Apr 03, 2008
4:13 PM
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ok, so I only gained half a step... its a gain.
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Butch @
Sundance Roller Lofts
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Ballrollers
1123 posts
Apr 03, 2008
6:40 PM
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Butch,
No...I think you hit the nail on the head. First one selects for performance. Once that performance is proved to be stable and improves in speed and quality, it's time to start looking harder at them in the loft and in the hand for type, feather, character, and expression. Getting them to that point is a giant step in my book. Not that many make it that far.
JMHO,
Cliff
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sundance
603 posts
Apr 03, 2008
6:45 PM
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Thanks Cliff. I still have a long way to go, but now the path has a little better light shining on it. LOL
A theory or an idea are just words until they are put to the test. I gots lots of testing to do...LOL
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Butch @
Sundance Roller Lofts
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Velo99
1652 posts
Apr 03, 2008
6:50 PM
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Yeah Butch
You`re fine bro. Theres just so many things to look at when you`re looking at a bird.
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V99
Keep the best. Eat the rest.
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Scott
332 posts
Apr 05, 2008
8:48 AM
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Good posts Cliff, the young stars just rarely seem to be in the kitbox as old birds, and there is nothing as consistant as a good old birds as they have pretty much gone through thier phases and you know with pretty much certainty what they truely are,you also know thier true charactor.
As for me breeding a high percentage of good ones, in all honesty I don't, I do breed a much higher percentage than I once did though thats for sure.
As for breeding out of youngbirds at say a ten mo. to a fourteen mo. old, sure I will do it if they showed me good charactor up to that point and didn't have any problems when they were coming into the roll.
I will knock a few rounds out of them come late Spring after W/C and then put them back in the kitbox to finish flying out.
You can kinda get a jump on whether they are producers or not.
I find that my very best and consistant tend to be just so-so birds in thier first year, and once they hit about 18 mo. old just seem to come into thier own.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Scott
333 posts
Apr 05, 2008
9:10 AM
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PS , I have seen some decent yong bird teams , but the best of those the can't hold a candle to the best old bird teams that I have seen.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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