nicksiders
2680 posts
Apr 17, 2008
10:07 PM
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I often hear a lot of talk about a family coming into the roll early or come in late. I think a better question would be; how long do they stay in the roll after they are in it?
I want to be able to fly a good kit bird for 3, 4, 5 years or longer on a competition level. How often are you finding that you are not getting a long term use out of you birds? Are there some familys that performance is short lived (2 years or less) that you are aware of? Are there families that hang in there for 3 or more years that you are aware of?
How old is the oldest bird in your WC kit this year?
Nick Siders
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Santandercol
2317 posts
Apr 17, 2008
10:28 PM
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Hey Nick,howsitgoin??The family i have is said to take 2 1/2 up to 3 years to really show maturity and peak performance.i only have 2 '06 birds in my W/C kit(thanks to the BOP) the rest are 1 year old '07s.prelims for me april 27th,first light 5:20am.hopefully the henery will be sleepin still.
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Kel.
Rum-30 Lofts
Last Edited by on Apr 17, 2008 10:30 PM
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silver tail
169 posts
Apr 17, 2008
10:31 PM
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Nick this is a good subject but I fell due to the great explosion of bop it's going to be near imposible to awnser this question. Let's say ten year ago in almost every ones area you could fly year round with little to no looses due to BOP. Now their are people who ethere can't fly or can only fly for 3or 4 months a year meaning if your family of birds normaly takes 6 to 12 months to come in now the time has doubled to two year or more plus there are far and few birds that servive two to three years in the air maybe 10% of what you start with. just my opinion and for those that know me they know I fly birds so this is just my personal opinion. :-)
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c robbo
313 posts
Apr 18, 2008
3:16 AM
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6 weeks
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
1191 posts
Apr 18, 2008
4:13 AM
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Nick.2 of the best rollers in my A Team are 4 years old.The only reason they are still flying is because I don't need them in the breeding loft.
I have lost several over the past couple years to BOP that were 2 years old that I wish now I had stocked earlier.I think for this reason you won't find many older birds still flying
My friend John Walsh has some that he is flying that are 6 and 8 years old.Or the last we talked about them he was.LOL
David
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Ragin Rollers
45 posts
Apr 18, 2008
5:07 AM
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Hey Nick,
I have three birds in my A-Team that are 5 years old the rest are three years 1 that is an 07, my pigeons are English pigeons. even at three years old they are still pretty strong, some of these birds i hear take three to four years to come into the roll( i mean into peak performance....)I also heard that the birds that come into the roll early really dont last long....
Thanks Russ...
Ragin Rollers.
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pat66
142 posts
Apr 18, 2008
5:17 AM
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BLUESMAN,
John Walsh from Maryland?
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Pat
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Scott
362 posts
Apr 18, 2008
5:35 AM
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Nick, due to a couple of over flys past couple of years my oldest is probably 3 maybe 4 years old with a few two year olds, this is the first year that I have flown so many yearlings.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Apr 18, 2008 5:36 AM
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155
345 posts
Apr 18, 2008
8:52 AM
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Well the one of the family's that i'm working with come's into the roll about 7months-1year and from what i've experience after they come into there roll they just keep getting better and better and now with my 2nd family of birds if you ask me where there at you might already know the answer but going back to my 1st family this is just one of the storys that my good friend had told me about this family of birds what had cought his attention when he went to England is that after that they were done fly a kit of birds he went into the kit box and seen some of the bands on the birds, there had been a lot of 8 year olds in that kit.....He said that blew his mind cause he was raising another family of bird's that every year he had to raise like 100-200 of birds just because they were early developes...He said dont get me wrong this early developes gave him a show a great show and they were tromendous spinners...He said the reason why he had switched familys was because he just got tired of breeding so many birds and have them burn out...Most of them birds ended up dead or not rolling no more...
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
1192 posts
Apr 18, 2008
1:57 PM
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Pat.Yes John is in Md.I think you have visited him several times havn't you? David
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Electric-man
1455 posts
Apr 18, 2008
2:10 PM
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Good to see you David! Are you competing this year?
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Val
"Site Moderator"
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
3091 posts
Jun 17, 2009
5:08 PM
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If I remember correctly Monty N.one time said is nothing like having an old bird team to fly..
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Ralph.
Life comes down to the choices you make, and then living with the results.
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macsrollers
103 posts
Jun 17, 2009
11:11 PM
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I have a 7 year old and two 5 year olds in my WC team, currently sitting in 11th place. All good rollers with good speed but a too much V style for me to stock. They stay in my #1 team until I have something better to replace them with or the BOP gets them. They all hold up well and when they are on seem to perform the same they did at 2 years old. But keeping this old of birds in my team is difficult for several reasons- mainly birds of prey, next weather conditions here, and thirdly my hope is over 5 years or so of breeding to have bred enough better birds to replace such an old bird that is good but not exceptional. I have accomplished breeding enough better birds but haven't accomplished being able to keep them around long enough to replace these older birds. Mother Nature is one tough woman!
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wishiwon2
203 posts
Jun 18, 2009
1:01 PM
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Good topic, sorry I missed it the first time around.
I believe a solid bloodline of stable birds ought to be able to fly and continue to perform well indefinately. I suppose there is and upper age limit where just like any living being their bodies simply cant do it well anymore.
The birds I have and am flying reach thier best Q performance around 2 1/2 yrs old, after 2nd moult. They begin rolling well at about 8-10 months. After 3 yrs they lose a bit of frequency and gain a bit of depth, most keep the same quality they were capable of at 2-3 yrs. In my A-team I have a handful that are 3-6 yrs. I have seen birds from this family roll excellent up to 10 yrs old.
Another test I require of my birds is to be bred from and then go back to working on form in the kit. It adds another level to selection. Those that can breed and re-fly well are of greater value to me than those that wash-out after having been bred off from. In reading Graham's book, it seems that in England, re-flying stock is/was the norm. Perhaps there is added merit to building and maintaining a stable and reliable family by doing this. Bop have limited our opportunity no doubt, I often wonder though, if we dont excuse ourselves too much ....
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Jon
If it were easy, everybody would do it
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wishiwon2
204 posts
Jun 18, 2009
1:09 PM
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Yes Nick I believe there are familys that arent able to work well past 2 or 3 years old. They either have a stability accident prior to that age or they become so strong mentally and physically, they are impossible to manage to get performance.
One other comment on flying old bird teams ...
They usually require a different managment to continue to get good work out of them. They get and stay strong mmore easily. This adds to the capacity to perform with high Q but also can have a neg influence on work rate. Methods that worked as young birds are ineffective with old birds. The difference in being spot on and way off are very fine scaled. There is less room for error. I believe there are some fliers that simply dont know how to work an old bird team well. The birds can still do it, we just have more difficulty in getting it from them.
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Jon
If it were easy, everybody would do it
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0221
327 posts
Jun 18, 2009
1:55 PM
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Barley really come's into play here. solid rollers that go off are either flown to often or fed to well. This may not work for every family, although it works here. 50# wheat 50# barley and 25# milo. rail them out if need be, remember a boxer dosen't fight every friday night, don't expect to get these athletes to perform just because a couple of buddy's droped by. I give them this food in flying season, more or less depending on there performance and fly time. I'm not telling anyone what to do, only what works for Me. If You have old birds that can roll and won't, its down to you to figure out why. Pensom said if you want them to stop performing, give them plenty of liberation and the best of feed. there's no knew secrets, We need to go back and study the information thats been laid out before us. Damn I wish I could type with more than one finger.
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toughrollers
134 posts
Jun 18, 2009
3:02 PM
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0221 i agree with you, on,your 327post how are you and how are your birds
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Toughrollers--Lofts
Ralph
Last Edited by on Jun 18, 2009 3:04 PM
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gotspin7
2430 posts
Jun 18, 2009
7:44 PM
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Barley really come's into play here. solid rollers that go off are either flown to often or fed to well. This may not work for every family, although it works here. 50# wheat 50# barley and 25# milo. rail them out if need be, remember a boxer dosen't fight every friday night, don't expect to get these athletes to perform just because a couple of buddy's droped by. I give them this food in flying season, more or less depending on there performance and fly time. I'm not telling anyone what to do, only what works for Me. If You have old birds that can roll and won't, its down to you to figure out why. Pensom said if you want them to stop performing, give them plenty of liberation and the best of feed. there's no knew secrets, We need to go back and study the information thats been laid out before us. Damn I wish I could type with more than one finger.
0221, sound advice. The only difference with my little rollers is I leave out the barley. I fly them just on straght wheat (sometimes a mix grain, depending on performance) and are flown every third day.
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Sal Ortiz
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0221
328 posts
Jun 18, 2009
8:20 PM
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Gotspin7, If it ain't broke don't fix it. Everyone should do what works for them. So many give up and start looking for something else, If you can't manage what you have! what good would it do to start over? Sounds like you have a plan. Good luck.
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