xueher
2 posts
Apr 18, 2008
2:36 PM
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What should i decided on just to watch for fun something kewl that rolls often and deep. birmingham or fireball rollers. what are some key factor of these birds. how to obtain these bird?
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quickspin
527 posts
Apr 18, 2008
7:03 PM
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You can get some nice ones from here in this site from Tony. You can ask him anything and he will be there to help you out.
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SALAS LOFT
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xueher
3 posts
Apr 18, 2008
9:41 PM
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Im not sure what tony haves but im really interested in fireball i wanna keep those birds alive because not to many breeders out there haves them plus i alwasy love roller. Hope who read this can help me out.thanks
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PR_rollers
910 posts
Apr 18, 2008
9:44 PM
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you sure you know what Tony has,,check with him he has what you looking for too..fireballs.and a forum like this one just for that..contact him.
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Ralph....
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crystalpalace
340 posts
Apr 18, 2008
9:59 PM
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A Birmingham roller and a fireball roller are the same breed. Mr. Graham lived in Canada and called his family of rollers fireballs. He lost his best stock of fireballs in Canada and moved to the United States with the remainder of his stud. They were sold exclusively in the USA but never gained much popularity. There was to many faults in the family but backyard fanciers enjoyed breeding and flying them. Some breeders of fireballs living in California bred my stock to them and some were flown in competition flys. Eventually all the fireballs were sold and the breeders lost interest in them. Bill Pensom imported the best stock from England to the USA in the early nineteen twentees. They caught on like wildfire and that was the end of all the other families that were previously bred and flown in United States of America. I made contact several times with Mr. Graham before his death. Summitted by, Ray Sanchez
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Mount Airy Lofts
685 posts
Apr 18, 2008
11:12 PM
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"not too many people have them"
Geez I wonder why :(
If you really want velocity, style, control and depth... there is no other Roller better in those department then the Birmingham Roller. Aw the fall of the American Rollers. Aw the fall of the Fire Balls.
People know better now. No wonder they are so RARE now ;)
Thor
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It's all about the friends we make :)
Last Edited by on Apr 20, 2008 1:12 AM
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katyroller
136 posts
Apr 19, 2008
4:20 PM
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Thor, Those Fireballs or Whittinghams aren't as rare as you might think! There are still alot of old timers with them.
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DeepSpinLofts
604 posts
Apr 19, 2008
5:34 PM
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I had them both. Let me sum this up.
Fireballs are deeper rollers in the air... but less controlable (manageable). I found them harder to manage.
Birminghams spin harder and faster with more velocity. They are more stable, more frequent in the air and definitely kit better.
If you are a backyard flyer (don't fly competitively) and love those SUPER DEEP rollers... then Fireballs might be the thing for you.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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Fire_Baller_916
222 posts
Apr 19, 2008
7:30 PM
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People that misjudge fireballs dont know what they are talking about...Fly them out first then we can talk afterward...Some people like to speard rumors that you get nothing but rolldown but that's not true...All i can say is that they have poor management and you cant control your birds so they rolldown on you...Dont blame the bird, blame yourself...I had Fireballs for over a year now and had only 2 rolldown due to the fact of not locking them down during there first molt...Other then that i have no problem of managing them...Just fly them out the way the original oweners fly them and you'll have no problems flying them...Fireballs could perform just as good as any birmingham could...They cant kit as good but they can sure work there butt off and put up a good show after hours and hours of flying and flying high...
Chai Seng
www.freewebs.com/raining_fire_loft
Last Edited by on Apr 19, 2008 7:33 PM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2369 posts
Apr 19, 2008
7:39 PM
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You tell'em Chai!
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
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PR_rollers
917 posts
Apr 19, 2008
7:50 PM
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oh oh Tony is on the loose...Tony are you trying to get a new hat ..lol..peace buddy...
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Ralph....
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sac_spinners
232 posts
Apr 19, 2008
8:16 PM
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I personally think that Marcus nailed it right on the point. I had them both and seen them both fly also, fireballs are deeper but does not have the velocity, style and frequency that the birmingham roller has. JMHO
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NCRC (Northern California Roller Club)
Chor V
Last Edited by on Apr 19, 2008 11:15 PM
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Mount Airy Lofts
689 posts
Apr 19, 2008
9:42 PM
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kat...
I was just stating what others have done with the birds in the past. They moved on. These are veteran fliers who knew what a good roll was. I'm not putting any breed down. We all raise what we like and to each his own. It has be documented many times in the past, no need to re live history.
If you have the book, The Pigeon by Levis. Look to the chapter of the Birmingham Roller. That pretty much sums it up. Best of the Best of Rollers!!
Chai...
Question? If they are all that, may be you should stop selling them off. I don't know of any who has the heart you do for your birds to turn around and sell them off. Maybe you should ask yourself how good they really are? I am not saying one shouldn't sell birds, just selling them off only after a year of having them is premature don't you think - usually it is for a different reason.
I know of some die hard Fire Ballers in the East Coast. Yes I know the birds are still being kept strong. Last I heard, the die hards wanted to re start up the Fire Ball Club. Any word if they ever did?
Food for thought, maybe you guys can get the Fire Balls recognized as a breed by the NPA. To my knowledge they are a breed yet.
Flew the yearlings yesterday. Had a super late round Black Grizzle come into the roll. Rolled super fast,tight and deep for at least 100'. I can see clearly that the bird was trying it's best to break out of it. Rolled 4 times in excess of 100' before making back down with the rest of the gang. I don't know of any one who would not treasure such a bird of that caliber if it made it past 2 years and still held that performance!! I fear this bird, unless it shortens up would not make it past next season. It is not that we don't like deep birds, every one loves them. It is rarely that we are able to breed a bird that deep with all the qualities that makes us love these birds so much - style, velocity, control, and frequency.
We all raise what we like... that is up to you,
Thor
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It's all about the friends we make :)
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Fire_Baller_916
224 posts
Apr 19, 2008
11:08 PM
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Hey Thor, who say that i was selling my birds off...If you go to the Fireball site and look around...I posted on there that i was willing to donate a young pair to a guy that was interested in Fireballs...You dont see me going around and saying "do you want buy some fireballs???"...My goal is to help promote and bring back Fireballs by breeding and donating it to people that are interested...I too had both Fireballs and Birmingham and flew them both myself but to me I enjoy watching Fireballs more because i like watching my birds fly for hours and put up a good show....Birmingham are for competition and are only train to do what they are train for...I like to let my birds fly for as long as they want and let them have there freedom of flying...That's what wings are for...How would you like it if someone starve you and make you run the the mile...I give my birds all they want to eat because they are going to need it...People breed for type so ofcourse the performance are going to change...Birds dont stay the same forever...
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Chai Seng
www.freewebs.com/raining_fire_loft
Last Edited by on Apr 19, 2008 11:18 PM
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Mount Airy Lofts
690 posts
Apr 20, 2008
1:09 AM
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Chai,
First off. You told me that you sold birds or did you forget? Again, nothing wrong with selling birds.
I'm not in here for a debate to see who has the best birds. I can only give you my opinion or what I have heard or experienced. Take it what you may.
Secondly, there is a reason why we don't like to feed all they can eat every day. The reason is - control. Who are the masters here, we or them? I guess back yarders (not all) have a different out look on things and may never understand what most of us do the things we do. I like my birds to fly for about 45 minutes and perform with enough activity that it draws my attention. I also would like for them to hit the traps when they hear the feed call. I hate roof sitters as they attract neighbors and BOPs.
Have you ever thought about the Rollers that were developed here. I think the American Rollers will be more of your type. I know when I don't watch what I am feeding, one side of the family I am working with can fly for hours to end. I have had them flying for 5 hours a couple of months ago due to Winter feeding. Personally I don't have the patience to wait that long for my birds to land and trap in safely.
I personally don't see any thing special about a high flying, long flying, loose rolling type of performer. I am talking about my birds. These birds when they arise will be plegged culls.
Maybe when I am in Cali this year, I can stop by to watch your birds perform. Maybe they will change my view of things? Maybe by this year, you will have a team of all old birds flying? When your up here, drop me a call and maybe I can change your view of things?
I know you love them Fire Balls... why not start up the Fire Ball Club again?
Thor
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It's all about the friends we make :)
Last Edited by on Apr 20, 2008 4:02 AM
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Mount Airy Lofts
691 posts
Apr 20, 2008
1:14 AM
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Tony,
You must be a bad manager :)
Last I heard, you had your share of Roll Downs from them Fire Balls. Hell I get my share of Roll Downs from my family. I need to step up my game!!
Your average joe manager,
Thor
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It's all about the friends we make :)
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2371 posts
Apr 20, 2008
4:41 AM
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Hey Thor, hehehe...I did get a few roll downs from the group I had gotten from Chris Johnson. In this group of birds, I also noticed a difference between those that flew and rolled well and those that dropped like rocks.
The roll downs tended to be larger and had a kind of "goofy" look to them. Whereas the bona fide performers very much resemble cultivated Birmingham Rollers.
I still have a hand-full, 2 that flew in my Fall Fly team a couple years ago then used for fostering I am now getting them back into condition to fly in my World Cup team. I don't know anyone else attempting this.
My belief is that the Fireball Roller will make a resurgence throughout the country due to the Internet and connecting interested fanciers much more quickly and efficiently than in the old days.
If enough serious roller men can put their minds to it, the Fireball Roller can be just as much a performer and competitor as the more established roller strains.
The guys interested in the Fireball Roller have finally stepped up and are now beginning to invest in our Fireball Roller site so now I can invest some time into developing it.
You will soon see a well put together Fireball Roller site that will be paid for by those with a passion and desire to bring the Fireball Roller back for a new day and age!
A new chapter for the Fireball Roller is being written now...
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
Last Edited by on Apr 20, 2008 4:43 AM
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xueher
7 posts
Apr 20, 2008
8:18 AM
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Just got to say this right there and right now i can't take this any more no offense to anybody here. AMEN to My boys from the the fire ball site Chai and Tony. Well said. Peace-Out..
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Fire_Baller_916
225 posts
Apr 20, 2008
9:08 AM
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Thor, Im sorry to tell it to you but i dont train my birds to sit on roof top...They come straight down after a long fly and i know better not to let them hang out on roof top and get eaten by BOPs...Just because we backyard flyers dont compete that doesnt mean we dont train our birds like competition birds...Dont put words in people mouth and streo type people when you dont know them...To be honest I put a lot of time and effect into my birds just like everyone else...In the past I did sell some of my young fireballs to people that are interested in them because they have ask me several times and i was short on birds...Good birds dont come at a cheap price but i was willing to offer them some good birds for a price that most people wont offer...All the time that you put in your birds adds up more then someone offering you awhole lot of $$$...As of right now $$$ dont buy me...I rather donate a young pair of fireballs to help the new guys that are interested in fireballs and promote fireballs and bring them back from the past and show everyone how a Fireball should be flown...
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Chai Seng
www.freewebs.com/raining_fire_loft
Last Edited by on Apr 20, 2008 9:11 AM
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PR_rollers
922 posts
Apr 20, 2008
10:53 PM
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WoW a bird that can fly for hours and roll where were you guys in 1999,when i was looking for that ,..lol... I tell you a funny story ,I had Canadian high flyers and they flew for 5 to 8 hours ,but they traded in for Racing Homers,got tire of the homers and i wanted to get these birds back .wrote to a friend who send me Joe Marlette phone number I call him and first thing i said you selling birds I'm looking for high flying tipplers that fly 8 to ten hours he said I don't have birds like that i have rollers they fly 20 to 30 minutes here because i want them to perform for me within that time period i let them out.I said 30 minutes nah that ain't what i want .but when he explain the way they are train and how they roll i said wait a minute maybe i can give that a try.he send me 9 rollers and old movies with Pensom.Smith and Ploma NBRC bulletins and everything was for free, while it took a while for me to get use to flying these birds i made them fly 1 hour and half .but as i learn the shorter they fly the more energy they preserve for rolling .I was hook.a whole different ball game .but i was hook for life.I train my birds like competition birds but i don't have to starve them to make them roll.just give them what they need not what they want so they don't fly for hours .
Now about these fireballs you say they fly for a long time .my question is do they perform alot.or fly more? saving energy .
,Ralph....
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Fire_Baller_916
226 posts
Apr 21, 2008
11:14 AM
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PR Roller...Just go to fireballrollers.com and read the posts on there...Then you'll get an ideal of what Fireballs truely are...Tony is also the owner of that site...
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Chai Seng
www.freewebs.com/raining_fire_loft
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