bertie
202 posts
Apr 24, 2008
3:51 PM
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I haven't been around here very long but long enough to notice that no matter what the thread is about someone has to mention BOP. Even if it has nothing to do with the thread. What is the deal with that? Do you think if you mention BOP every 2 seconds someone is going to do anything about the real problem?
Bert
Last Edited by on Apr 24, 2008 3:53 PM
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quickspin
554 posts
Apr 24, 2008
4:07 PM
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We fly are birds we get hit by a___? Not a dog or anything else. Always the same thing.
We fly are birds and _______takes are best birds. Who?
On a fly competition everything is good in till__shows up?
Light color rollers are attracted by the___?
We breed rollers and who enjoys them the most___? and me too.
Do you fly birds?
If you do you would know what I mean.
Do you like rollers?
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SALAS LOFT
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SALAS LOFT
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Sourland
111 posts
Apr 24, 2008
6:11 PM
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FLASHBACK! Just last April I was in the exact situation as you. I stood there with a good recessive red cock and watched his blood drip through my fingers. Yes, I loved flying my birds, but I could no longer justify their slaughter. I'll answer your question Quickspin-I'll bet he doesn't fly his birds of r this thread never would have been started.
JMO Geo.
Last Edited by on Apr 24, 2008 6:11 PM
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Ty Coleman
235 posts
Apr 24, 2008
8:33 PM
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Bert i wish you all the luck with your squeks your getting started and i hope you dont have to see one of your birds in your hand like the one above.But if it does happen to you your views will change i think. I have set up way in the night trying to save one of my best birds that i should have stocked but just had to see him spin one more time only to have him bleed to death in my hands.I used to feel bad for the raptors with all the ddt and other problems they had,now that they are over populated and choose easy prey "my rollers" because they are lazy i no longer feel sorry for them.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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luis
835 posts
Apr 24, 2008
9:15 PM
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When you see your future prospects get taken and your hard work and time disappear,you'll sing a different tune!BUT......If you love flying pigeons,you'll stick with it and post your blues away like the rest of us.
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elopez
1108 posts
Apr 24, 2008
9:23 PM
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Well said Luis. At first I was amazed by the bops, now I am still amazed at how fast they are and the way they hunt but it's very upsetting when the it gets the best in your kit. Can't blame them, can only blame myself for letting them fly in this infested sky...
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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PR_rollers
951 posts
Apr 25, 2008
7:04 AM
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I'm wondering what happened to the homing instinct to rollers over the years? I had rollers in the 70's and 80's and they were a lot better than the birds now days(homed that is). I guess just breeding for the roll and nothing else made them stupid!
I had rollers back then would roll 20 to 30' easy and go frequently. I fed them a lot so they would go very high like little specks in the sky but back then I didn't know that you cut their feed enough they would be so hungry they don't fly high.
I sold or gave many of my birds to people at least 20 miles or more away and I had many, many of my rollers come back from that far, when they would escape or someone wold let them out too early.
And that's another thing, the birds now days NEVER get homed like they use to. I would buy new birds and with in a month they were pretty well homed.
Now if rollers get blown a block away their history! I don't ever remember losing a bird back in the 70's and 80's other than to Owls in the evening and a few BOP here and there.
Bert.
I see you didn't leave the word BOP out ..
I notice you ask in another thread about your youngster out for the first time should you scare them up..
Judging from what you wrote up above shows you had experience. going back to the 70's and 80's did you forget how to train then or did you train them another way.
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Ralph....
Last Edited by on Apr 25, 2008 7:23 AM
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Windjammer Loft
271 posts
Apr 25, 2008
7:19 AM
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WOW.....I haven't been in the forum for about 2 weeks and the first thing I have to read is a BLEEDING HEART thread. Bertie sounds like one of those guys who wouldn't hurt a fly......Even if it was carring a deadly disease. Get a life.
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
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bertie
204 posts
Apr 25, 2008
7:28 AM
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You guy are just so defensive. Someone asks a simple question like my bird has runny poop and someone is going to come up with BOP are stressing out their bowels that your problem,BOP's are effecting their homing instinct or just about anything anyone asks someone will blame it on BOP.
I don't want my birds to be ate either but I do want to get a straight answer that isn't to do with BOP all the time.
Bert
Last Edited by on Apr 25, 2008 7:42 AM
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Otis
104 posts
Apr 25, 2008
7:30 AM
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Hey Ralph, Even Pensom noted back in the 60's, that when under attack and sent scattering thruout the countryside rollers just venture into an area where there are additional BOP's that interfere with thier return. And the carnage becomes like running thru a gaunlet or a maze of pitfalls to get home. I've seen some of my birds trying to avoid at least 3 types of BOP's to get over the hill on the other side of my place. It's a rare one that can make it back from 10-20 miles these days.
Plainly speaking, more numbers, less food, more persistant attacks. Have you heard the recent rumblings of the racing community about the constant attacks they see on thier birds now, and the losses they are suffering? I think my rollers have good instinct-they just don't get to use it! Good point Ralph, even Bertie can't go without mentioning BOP's. Help us understand Bertie!!!Otis
Last Edited by on Apr 25, 2008 7:32 AM
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silver tail
210 posts
Apr 25, 2008
7:33 AM
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Bert your right no one is going to do anything about it at least not right now. But you know most of the guys are just venting and letting each other know what going on it makes us fell better. But you never said if you have birds or not and if so do you fly? just asking ;-}
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bertie
205 posts
Apr 25, 2008
7:40 AM
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Well silver tail, I do have some good lines in my birds and have tired flying them but so far they just fly away. Guess they read some of the posts here and are getting the heck out of here before the BOP gets them.
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silver tail
211 posts
Apr 25, 2008
7:42 AM
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That may be the problem but if they just fly away you need to work on your training and the one good line from your awnser about your birds is they fly straight. :-)
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bertie
206 posts
Apr 25, 2008
7:46 AM
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I have KGB, and Campbell birds. Also some Clay Hoyle. But they do fly straight to where ever there going. How can you train them when they go up, up and away as soon as they see freedom.
Bert
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silver tail
212 posts
Apr 25, 2008
8:08 AM
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Not sure but I think they may not be hungry when you fly them look at the post marked my lil secret it may help you home them. good luck
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PR_rollers
952 posts
Apr 25, 2008
8:16 AM
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Base from your experience of you flying birds back in the 80'and 90's and how you had birds doing 20 0r 30 easy and frequently how did you train them back them. its funny how you been around rollers that long and come in here asking question like you are a Newbie..
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Ralph....
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quickspin
555 posts
Apr 25, 2008
8:35 AM
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Take notes Bertie: I don't know what you did wrong but here is the beginning how it usually starts.
One problem might be if you scare them from your loft a lot. So they will just fly away from it to were they feel safe.
Usually when my birds are young I put them on the roof of the loft for a couple of days before they can even fly were you can come up and grab them easy.
Ones you have been doing that they know the surroundings' so they will not get lost easy. Then you just open the door and they come out to the roof with out you doing nothing.
They start to fly doing circles around the loft also you not scaring them off. Ones you feel they have been doing that for a couple of days you start releasing them from a couple of houses away from your house. This will make them fly a little longer. In a matter of no time they should start to fly longer and longer. In a matter of weeks you should just open the door and they will fly with out you doing nothing. Now if you want them to fly more you feed them more or less for less time. Depending on how fast they trap in.
If the birds are not turning the right way going one way there is a leader in the kit that is probably a cock making them fly that way. Start by flying small groups of 5 to find out which are the birds flying that way. If they have been doing that for months you might have to cull all the birds and start again with the young birds.
I find it easier to fly all hens one time to cancel them out right away.
The top birds in your perches are usually the leaders and it will be one of them or more.
Fly birds in the same age or the young birds will not let the older birds fly higher and make the drop sooner.
That is one of the things or another one can be you are feeding them to high % and they are flying like homers. If they are older birds like 7 moths or older it's better to fly them not every day but every other day. This will keep them from been stiff and not performing like they should.
Lock them up for 1 week and use 12% of food giving them 1.5 table spoon / bird. See the results
Lock them up for 4 days the first 2 days give them pure milo 2 table spoon / bird 3rd day wheat/milo 1.5 tbl and the last day the same see the results.
I have had the same problem and I have don this things It might work for you.
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SALAS LOFT
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elopez
1131 posts
Apr 25, 2008
9:13 AM
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Base from your experience of you flying birds back in the 80'and 90's and how you had birds doing 20 0r 30 easy and frequently how did you train them back them. its funny how you been around rollers that long and come in here asking question like you are a Newbie..
Good point Ralph, it's also funny how he keeps bringing up topics about the bop but yet complains when other's do.
Bertie - do you work for US Fish and Wildlife Services?
I believe you've been asked more than once but still no response. If you are on here to try to get some info on bop, forget about it, you're waisting your time. We all now know and respect the migratory act.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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silver tail
213 posts
Apr 25, 2008
9:19 AM
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Amen to that I was thinking the same Elopez just didn't want to insult anyone but he does sound like a Mr. Ted oh! I mean Ed know what I mean?
Last Edited by on Apr 25, 2008 9:19 AM
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bertie
207 posts
Apr 25, 2008
9:51 AM
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No Efern, I don't work for anyone, I'm retired. You guys really need to learn how to read before you post a reply.
I flew back in the 70's and early 80's when BOP was scarce and rollers were smart. Now I don't know what happened to rollers but you can't get an older one homed. Back in the 70's I would go buy a new adult roller and it would be homed in a month. Now I have had these birds for 6 months they have never been in the air and they just take off, don't ever look back.
I'm in no way trying to defend or stick up for BOP I think it is terrible to lose your best birds and some great squeaks to an over populated population of BOP's. It's going to really kill me when one of my squeaks get attacked and I know it will happen. I just was looking out my window and seen 2 hawks in the trees across the street.
This post really wasn't meant to be a BOP debate, I just don't know how BOP's can be responsible for my birds runny poop,not eating right,not being able to get homed and on and on.
Bert
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elopez
1135 posts
Apr 25, 2008
9:52 AM
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Silver LOL.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
Last Edited by on Apr 25, 2008 12:07 PM
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elopez
1136 posts
Apr 25, 2008
9:52 AM
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He's fishing in an empty lake...
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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quickspin
558 posts
Apr 25, 2008
10:02 AM
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Do yo have pictures of you loft setup?
Birds lock up for 6 months and then release that is one reason why they leave. They sometimes forget so you have to re train them again not all but some.
You need to keep them really hungry the first day so they can just go in ones you call them.
If you have them full they will just fly away.
Keep them hungry they will not even fly to the roof. Trust me.
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SALAS LOFT
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2387 posts
Apr 25, 2008
10:54 AM
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Hey Bert, if you have the time, give me a call, I would like to speak with you if you don't mind. 1-800-498-2043.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
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smoke747
888 posts
Apr 25, 2008
11:39 AM
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Bertie, personally I don't lose birds unless they are eaten by the bop. Pigeons these days do seem to have degree less in homing instinct but we are not realy homing them we are training them.
smoke747
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Keith London
ICRC
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elopez
1138 posts
Apr 25, 2008
12:07 PM
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I really don't lose that many due to them getting loss. But I see where training not homing can attribute to large losses.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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PR_rollers
958 posts
Apr 25, 2008
2:06 PM
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Back then or now it don't make a difference to me .If i consider myself a kit master back then now i should be even better.because of all the experience i have from then to now.I never lost a bird but to the BOP i lost many..but i still know how to train a kit no matter when or where .those things you never forget...
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Ralph....
Last Edited by on Apr 25, 2008 3:22 PM
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PR_rollers
959 posts
Apr 25, 2008
2:11 PM
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I received 8 rollers from DH all 6 month or more .they were train to his loft .I train them in 2 to 3 weeks and out to fly,they are still here ...well some are in the BOP stomach..but once a trainer always a trainer...
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Ralph....
Last Edited by on Apr 25, 2008 3:26 PM
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flo
85 posts
Apr 25, 2008
4:08 PM
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"Back then or now it don't make a difference to me .If i consider myself a kit master back then now i should be even better.because of all the experience i have from then to now.I never lost a bird but to the BOP i lost many..but i still know how to train a kit no matter when or where .those things you never forget...
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Ralph.... "
I agree with Ralph 110%. I remember it was 1990 and I was 7 years old. My dad had homers and Kings. I remember my kings getting taken out by coopers and red hawks just as crazy. I witness my Giant red King survived a cooper attack when it wrestled with him for about 20 minutes. My dad had to go throw some sticks just for the cooper to fly off. So to say we were BOP-free or the BOP were less aggressive, is not true.
Species adapt to their surroundings and the behavior around them. Due to the way we fly our rollers in kits I am pretty they know the odds of catching a bird is higher with a group of rollers than commies. Therefore, they have adapt to the easy food source around them and that is why we try to train our rollers to trap as quick when they are done. It is just a cat and mouse game, trying to stay ahead of one another. It's a part of a Die-Hard roller fancier's life.
FLo
www.blacked-out-loft.webs
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PR_rollers
962 posts
Apr 25, 2008
4:19 PM
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FLo i seen a video the other day on here with a bird fighting a hawk or cooper was that your bird lol...
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Ralph....
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Windjammer Loft
272 posts
Apr 26, 2008
7:58 AM
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Here is my 2 cents on the loss of birds..LOL. As long as I have had rollers (4yrs) now, and even back in the days 80's and 90's. I have only lost a kit of birds due to an over fly, afew to BOP attacks and a rolldown or too. But not to settling of any birds. I have been able to settle birds that were up to 2 yrs old. Its all in the manner in which you do IT. To me the feed is the MOST important factor, then I would say the amount of time they are exposed to their NEW enviorement. This is not Rocket Science..... Try to use alittle common sense and the ADVICE of the EXPERIENCED.....keep your EARS open and your MOUTH shut.
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Apr 26, 2008 8:00 AM
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JMUrbon
426 posts
Apr 26, 2008
10:44 PM
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Bertie, I too have homed old birds over the years but even 25 years ago it was not an easy task and still suffered losses. In todays roller world there are good birds to be found all over the place if a guy wants to look hard enough. Now that being said, if I were to take the time to locate a family of birds that I really wanted to work with and had truly done some serious looking then first I would have chosen squeekers if I wanted to fly them and if Squeeks were not available I would have chosen from the air and not flown them. Then I would not be faced with loosing old birds because of homing issues. JMHO... Joe Urbon
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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