smoke747
890 posts
Apr 25, 2008
12:09 PM
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List how can we as breeders improve our birds homing instinct with out losing the good performing qualities?
smoke747
Keith London
ICRC
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quickspin
560 posts
Apr 25, 2008
12:12 PM
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Homing pigeon is a special type of pigeon developed for racing and carrying messages. These pigeons are sometimes called homers. They can be trained to return to their home loft when released from a distant place. This homing ability has been greatly increased by selective breeding. Homers are descended from the rock pigeon that lives wild in Europe, Asia, and Africa.
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SALAS LOFT
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quickspin
561 posts
Apr 25, 2008
12:13 PM
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Magnetic navigation -- Like a compass, pigeons detect lines in the Earth's magnetic field.
Astronomical navigation -- Like early explorers, pigeons use the position of the sun and stars to plot their course.
Smell and or hearing -- Every place has its own unique sounds and smells, and the plucky birds are able to detect their home turf by using high-powered senses over great distances.
Non-local consciousness or psychic navigation -- They just know their way home. Period. (Pretty convenient, huh?)
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SALAS LOFT
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smoke747
891 posts
Apr 25, 2008
12:20 PM
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Still, how do we improve our rollers homing instinct???
We all know about homers, I am talking about roller.
smoke747
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Keith London
ICRC
Last Edited by on Apr 25, 2008 12:22 PM
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quickspin
562 posts
Apr 25, 2008
12:23 PM
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There is no easy answer to train them unless we do what the homer guys do. Fly them around are area and little at a time start going farther and farther. I wouldn't risk loosing one of my birds flying them this way. They are rollers not homers. And I usually don't loose birds if is not because of the bop. I have had 1 bird last me 10 years flying and lost it to the bop. Others I had 5-3 years flying and also lost them to the bop. I don't put any attention to breeding for homing ability. They don't even fly far the stay flying around the area.
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SALAS LOFT
Last Edited by on Apr 25, 2008 12:28 PM
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wafer kits
93 posts
Apr 25, 2008
12:26 PM
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Keith;
Homers and rollers are bred to different standards. A racer is gradually released further and further from home so he will make a straight line for his loft. A roller is meant to stay within sight of his loft where we can see him perform. I doubt that we would want to release a roller miles from home and have him head straight for his loft. How would we be able to evaluate his performance? Al
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smoke747
893 posts
Apr 25, 2008
12:28 PM
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I'm suggesting during breeding some how. we should breed for this as well as performance.
smoke747
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Keith London
ICRC
Last Edited by on Apr 25, 2008 12:32 PM
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silver tail
215 posts
Apr 25, 2008
12:33 PM
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Keith im not sure how. But I think it's a trait we must look for in our birds before breeding. I on occasions have had over flies look at the birds that make it home what are there parent how many of there kids fly off not to return ect.
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quickspin
563 posts
Apr 25, 2008
12:35 PM
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I got this from a nother website.
I do not agree that crossing homing pigeons with rollers or others can improve the homing ability. I have started racing pigeons in Europe back in 1971 and found out that mixed birds are just that.When it comes to homing ability as the roller side is concerned it my improve. Will it improve to win homing pigeons races? Not a chance. It took years and years of developing a blood line of good racing pigeons. Even champion birds do not always guarantee that their young will perform just as good. Many factors contribute to a good racing pigeon. First is a good blood line,health, feeding,
minerals supplements, vitamins, clean loft, good eye, good strong muscular body, crisp feather, and specially intelect to mention just a few. I do not have much experience with other races of birds. Homing pigeons. O yes... I've been around them and some racing sport legends all my life. I can sure help answer some questions in this area if interested or find someone who can.
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SALAS LOFT
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smoke747
894 posts
Apr 25, 2008
12:37 PM
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Exactly silver, some birds will come back no matter what,but in most cases they are not the best performers. Since we have an extra element besides weather we ned to pay closer attention to this subject.
smoke747
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Keith London
ICRC
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smoke747
895 posts
Apr 25, 2008
12:42 PM
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By no means am I suggesting crossing homers to rollers, I'm talking about breeding within the strain; ie selection and breeding from the birds that show the greatest homing abilities as long as they meet your standards of performance.
smoke747
Keith London
ICRC
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quickspin
564 posts
Apr 25, 2008
12:44 PM
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Usually the bad rollers or ok rollers have better homing ability than the good working ones. Why? I really don't know. But what I do know is I will keep the good roller every time first than the homing one.
I have had friends and me releasing birds that don't perform to are standars and them coming back from 30-40+ miles away.
We have lost good birds right from are home not knowing why they left. I have gave birds away around 1-2 miles away from home and they don't come back when they are flown for the first time. Specially the good ones but the ones that come out bad are the first one to your house.
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SALAS LOFT
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quickspin
565 posts
Apr 25, 2008
12:50 PM
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If we do fly are birds for 2-3 years we willn't have to look for the homing ability as it will be there already. We will have a total package, good roller,that will hold it for 2-3 years.
I think that is the best thing we can do as roller guys.
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SALAS LOFT
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smoke747
896 posts
Apr 25, 2008
12:51 PM
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That is the situation in which I am referring to, how to breed beter homing instinct with out losing the good performing qualities? A discussion well worth talking about.
smoke747
Keith London
ICRC
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silver tail
216 posts
Apr 25, 2008
12:52 PM
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SAL YOUR RIGHT BUT YOU HAVE TO BE MORE SELECTIVE IF HOMING ABILITY IS IMPORTANT TO THE BREEDER. IF A BIRD IS NOT ROLLING AS GOOD AS YOU AND I LIKE HE SHOULD NOT HAVE A PROBLEM GETTING LOST. A LOT OF GUYS DON'T LOOK AT THIS PART OF THERE FAMILY AT ALL SOME YEARS BACK I REMEMBER A FREIND OF MINE SAYING THIS ONE PAIR'S BABIES WOULD HIT THE ROOF AND FROM THE TIME THEY MOVE THERE WINGS THEY ALWAYS LEFT NEVER DID HE GET TO FLY ONE MORE THEN ONCE BUT KEEP BREEDING THE PAIR.
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wafer kits
94 posts
Apr 25, 2008
1:47 PM
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Birds flown from a portable loft learn to hone in on the truck or crate rather than paying attention to landmarks. We always fly them a few miles or more from home so they won't be hunting for their loft. Some birds learn to imprint on the truck quicker than others and it doesn't seem to matter what family they are out of. Al
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sippi
182 posts
Apr 25, 2008
7:04 PM
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You touch briefly on what I was going to add Al.
Keith I fly mobile. I am unable to drive so I take my portable and pull it with my four wheeler. I fly my birds anywhere from a half mile to ten or fifteen miles from home. The have learned the area pretty well. So well that I have left or lost some and they will be home before dark and trap in. It does have a flip side though in that a few will come home instead of flying. I end up having to cull these because they will bring the whole kit home with them if you let them persist. I have also found that some lines are better at homing than others. My Galati's will fly until they are exhausted if they cant see the kit box. The Turner birds will home like a racer if you arent careful with them. I had some young one sent to me a little while ago and two of them wouldnt land on the box the first time out. I finally left them and they followed me home. Since them they break straight for the house from two miles or five miles. I had to cull them as they were taking birds from the kit. I think you could select for this trait very carefully but for me that is one too many traits to deal with.
sippi
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luis
841 posts
Apr 25, 2008
10:19 PM
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I think the way young birds learn to fly has alot to do with their homing ability.Unfortunately for me Red tails constantly harrass my birds, and i've noticed that when forced to ,they will leave the area(GOD only knows were they go) flying very high.They tend to return hours later and i sometimes see them coming down from way up there,wich leads me to believe they were flying the whole time.This type of situation develops their homing instinct but kind of ruins them for comp because they dot out and dissappear anytime they see a BOP.When he's not around they do just fine.On another note,i think the fact that i'm flying the Higgins birds with the Scott birds helps with the Higgins homing better.
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smoke747
897 posts
Apr 25, 2008
11:50 PM
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Since there are so many losses do to the bops, I was thinking of how we cut our losses by keeping the ones around that don't get caught but chased around.
smoke747
Keith London
ICRC
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Scott
408 posts
Apr 26, 2008
7:13 AM
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That is a easy one Keith , fly them for a couple a years, what is left and still top notch performance wise is your key.
There is so much more to flying a bird out properly than just to see if it holds up,one being that it knows how to shut down the roll and survive,in other words stable.
It seems that many think the way to get roll is by breeding birds that are controled by the roll,which are in reality are just boneheads,these type of birds don't survive year after year.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Windjammer Loft
273 posts
Apr 26, 2008
11:58 AM
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Hey Keith..you got a varity of answers to your question. But I think that one of the main reasons the homing ability has deminished is because of OUR INTENSITY for the improvement of the ROLL. We've lost alittle on the homing aspect. As for the answer, Iam not sure what we can do. But,I do know that for the 2007 & 2008 breeding seasons I have been training my rollers, somewhat like the homers. I have been EXERIMENTING.....Such as when I start them out, I get them settled to thier surroundings first,(what ever time frame it takes you)them every 3 or 4 days, I take them alittle farther away from the kitbox (about 100ft). I do this until I get them to return from about 1/2 mi to 1 mile from home. So far so good. But I won't really know how this is really taking affect for at least a few more breeding seasons. As for the homing ability of the BOP????? It's WHERE the FOOD CHAIN is, as long as their is FOOD, that the area of their homing ability...LOL. Just my take
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Apr 26, 2008 12:04 PM
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Santandercol
2372 posts
Apr 26, 2008
12:25 PM
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Hey Paul,that's pretty good,a mile away and the whole bunch comes back!Had a foster hen come home after 3 months she had escaped and gawd knows were she was.She came home fat.Wish they could tell ya where they been.Some spa somewhere I guess.And she laid an egg 3 days later.
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Kel.
Rum-30 Lofts
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COYOTE33
107 posts
Apr 26, 2008
2:06 PM
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hey! keith i would start with intelligence.
the definition of intelligence is the "the ability to learn or understand or deal with new or trying situations"
because of their homing ability we have to give our birds the chance to home and thats by leaving them out in some type of screened area for over a period of time so that they can learn the situation, the direction of the sun,land marks and our observation of their understanding and their intelligence. when these areas are covered then it depends on their intelligence. if its a dumb bird its a dumb bird, i would'nt breed out of it!
coyote
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katyroller
137 posts
Apr 26, 2008
2:33 PM
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Smoke, I agree with you and believe that through selective breeding we can improve on the homing ability of our birds. I think most of us have identified birds in our lofts that just seem to have more homing ability than others. The bird that came back from an overfly when most didn't or the young bird that got lost and found its' way home. Maybe we need to start looking at homing ability when we put our matings together.
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sippi
186 posts
Apr 26, 2008
7:39 PM
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There is some guys in NY that are doing the same thing with Tipplers. If I am not mistaken they have them out to fifty miles. They call them tossing tipplers.
sippi
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wafer kits
95 posts
Apr 26, 2008
9:59 PM
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If I release a portable kit in one spot and move the truck a few hundred feet, they will often land in the spot where I released them even though they can plainly see the truck. Eventually they will start circling low and find the truck again. I may have to fly them from this new location a couple of times to get them to land there. Al
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JMUrbon
427 posts
Apr 26, 2008
10:53 PM
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Homing is a trait that has to be cultivated just as any other family trait that we breed for is. Maybe not as high on our list of priorities but would be if they all started getting lost. Homing is a natural ability that all pigeons posess some are just better at it than others. We as breeders have to be able to recognize which birds are better at it and if every thing else is there that needs to be in order to make it into the stock loft then you have youself a winner. Hopefully and I mean Hopefully the young will end up with it also. JMHO...Joe Urbon
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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bigwilly
554 posts
Apr 27, 2008
12:02 AM
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Hey Smoke since I put a sun cage on my kit boxes, I have not lost one bird. When I pull my squabs and put them in the kit cages they able to come out and look around at the surrounding area. Futhermore, when it is ime for them to fly they are use to there surroundings and are not frightend when released to fly. I am not sure if one can breed better homing instincs in rollers, however there are steps that one can take during training to limit the risk of loosing them.
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Windjammer Loft
275 posts
Apr 27, 2008
9:47 AM
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Kel....1 mile really isn't that far,considering I take my homers out to a 50 mile point for several tosses. But it's a start. Seeing that I don't have that many youngster to work with. But,I figure at least it's a start in re-activating their homing instinct or at least trying to anyway. I guess the guys that fly homers may have forgotten how easy it is to over look the homing ability.....LOL,because we just take it for granted its their....Oh well.
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Apr 27, 2008 9:49 AM
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MILO
922 posts
Apr 27, 2008
9:50 AM
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It's one more thing in the mix you look for. Selection is the key.
c
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Windjammer Loft
276 posts
Apr 27, 2008
9:55 AM
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Milo....your absoluty right. Iam just trying to aid in the improvement of my birds. And keep giveing them every possible edge I can.
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
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