gabe454
861 posts
May 09, 2008
12:42 PM
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Man i dont know half the people here?
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454
TRIPLE "G" LOFT
L.P.R.C
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bertie
236 posts
May 09, 2008
12:49 PM
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Guess this post if for people that has been around a long time. Doesn't mean a thing to someone new that doesn't know any of these people. I only recognize a few names there and that's because I have their lines.
Bert
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Scott
491 posts
May 09, 2008
12:49 PM
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It looks to me like we are getting our asses handed to us for the most part.
As for the US flyers , Oullete is the most consistant, but guys fling Higgins stuff is in there the most.
I think at least part of that is due to there are so many flying them (higgins), but then there is a good reason for that also.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on May 09, 2008 1:06 PM
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gabe454
862 posts
May 09, 2008
1:01 PM
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Bertie ive been raising birds since i was 10 yrs old im 32 yrs old now you do the math. i dont know what your talking about. i reconize names but dont know these people personaly i dont know what birds they fly.
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454
TRIPLE "G" LOFT
L.P.R.C
Last Edited by on May 09, 2008 1:08 PM
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bertie
237 posts
May 09, 2008
1:15 PM
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454
Well I have seen a few of the names, but I meant I didn't know what families they are flying. Guess I wrote that last post wrong, again. The only names I really hear of are the ones posted here. Only been coming here for a few months.
Bert
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kcfirl
422 posts
May 09, 2008
2:23 PM
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Hi Nick,
cliff will be better able to answer who is using Turner birds. I believe they are primarily in the Southeast US with guys like Stuka, Ball, and Yandle representing. there are also some in southern Cal area brought in through the Randy Gibson and the late Doug Brown.
I will do your question one better though. How many of the top 10 in the last 5 years have flown Pensom based birds? By my estimation >60% of the top 10 finalists in the last 10 years have been flying birds that were not our of Pensome stock but were rather out of contemporaries of Pensoms stock with Bill Barrett stock likely reperesenting as many of the top 10 finalists as Pensom.
That ought to get it going!
Regards,
Ken Firl
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nicksiders
2764 posts
May 09, 2008
2:36 PM
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Pensom type birds are the dominate birds sinse 1991. Nieble got his birds basically from Cooper and Barret; Cooper had Pensom birds. Heine uses Niebels; the flyers in the UK have the same strains that Pensom brought to the US. Ken, I think your 60% estimate might be low(LOL).
Nick
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nicksiders
2765 posts
May 09, 2008
2:41 PM
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I now have some Joe Roe based birds. I know Joe has his own strain, but does anyone know who he used to start developing his family?
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kcfirl
423 posts
May 09, 2008
3:05 PM
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Nick,
Heine uses Neible's? Monty got birds from Barrett?
Nick - please - lay off the sauce! LOL
Ken
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Richard
95 posts
May 09, 2008
3:27 PM
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nicksiders
Joe used two birds a black and a white to start his blacks in the '60. one was from Pensom and the other was from J Lee Roy Smith. I think these birds are as good as the Hardesty birds he also flew. they crossed good with the Hardesty birds and were deeper. I flew a cock, 5 years old at the time, in the WC 1996. Rick Mee picked it the best individual bird in the WC. Very frequent and several hours into the fly he was still rolling and at nice height. This is one thing I liked about Joe's black and the Hardesty birds if they flew one hour they rolled the whole time. If they flew 2 or 3 hrs they were still rolling. So no matter how long they flew they were a pleasure to watch the whole time. You can make these birds fly high and long, low and not as long. Fly aways are the flyers fault. Haven't had one in over 10 years.
Richard
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Richard
96 posts
May 09, 2008
3:28 PM
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sorry sent this to wrong post.
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George R.
657 posts
May 09, 2008
8:05 PM
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Rich are your Richard Hayes?
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Scott
501 posts
May 09, 2008
9:45 PM
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George, that is the great Richard Miller
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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George R.
665 posts
May 09, 2008
10:45 PM
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Thanks Scott
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katyroller
163 posts
May 10, 2008
6:16 AM
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Nick, Your post didn't tell me CRAP except that the Brits and SA's seem to be kicking our ass. What was the point you failed to make?
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Ballrollers
1209 posts
May 10, 2008
8:46 PM
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Nick
I made a statement that men are flying and winning with birds from the Turner family. Scott, was the one who, challenged that statement. I merely stated that it would be interesting to evaluate the top winners in the WC and the NBRC National Championship to see what it revealed....and "Pensom" is too broad a family. We have to get more specific....after all, the Turners are Pensom-based. May I suggest you contact each flyer and conduct your own investigation. Check back with us with the results and inform Scott as to your findings.
To be fair and thorough, you will want to include the NBRC 20 and 11 bird, top 10 finishers, also. How about regional wins? I think it says something about the flyer and his family of birds to win his region. That's not just a walk in the park, though I know Scott has said that he is not impressed by it.
It might be a good idea to just check and see if the Flyers you contact breed from birds that carry or express rare factors.
I think you will find birds from ALL the best families, including those that fly families that contain rare colors; the point being these are all good performance-based families of birds, and not just kids in their backyards as Scott loves to pretend. LOL!.
I don't know of color birds in England or the rest of the world so it might save you some time to just check the USA flyers. And While you are at it, since the South east has a long history with the NBRC 11 bird fly, I would think you will find a few flyers there, and a few in the 20 bird fly, and a few in the WC. But that is just a wild guess.
In all truthfulness, I know what I fly and I know what is in my kits; and I know pretty well about the rest of the guys in my region. All the rest of the guys you will just have to interview and find out, as I have done.
Cliff
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Ballrollers
1210 posts
May 10, 2008
9:00 PM
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Nick
I think Scott is trying to make the point that there has never been an entire kit of Phenotypical rare-colored birds to ever win anything outside of the Carolina's. And I would not dispute that claim. My issue is with the rediculous attacks on the family of birds in general, as mongrels that don't hold up, don't kit...blah, blah, blah. So I am speaking of the family in general, with all its cross bred distant ancestors, with recessive and dominant traits for color...some visible...some not...but the same birds. But I would ask how many kits of grizzle TORTS have ever won? Or a kit of red bar bald heads? Or a kit of red checks with mixed flights? Most kits are not homogeneous for a certain color or pattern. My family is no different. Sure, there may be "some" but most will be mixed. One flys the best performers in his kits. It has nothing to do with colors.
Scott has stated he personally has seen very few rare colored birds in the kits he has judged, and he KNOWS what a mutt looks like. The problem is, the expression of many of the rare colors looks no different from any other Birmingham Roller, as we have discussed.
Does anybody breed just red bars? Just Blue Checks? Do they all look just alike? Is that what you want? We have all heard the myths about yellows (a true BR color) not performing or being poor in type or character....and we have all seen yellows that blow that myth apart also. WE all have likes and dislikes when it comes to what we find pleasant to look at, in the air or on the perch. It's time we move past these unfounded criticsms and prejudices in favor of...or against....a BR just because of its color. One can always find birds that fly in the face of these generalities.
Cliff
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Velo99
1720 posts
May 10, 2008
9:17 PM
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Let me add my two cents worth here.
When a guy gets Turners from someone unless they are from James Turners hands to yours with his explanation of who the parents are you`re getting one fanciers limited gene pool version of that particular strain of bird. Once they leave the breeders hands they are not really his birds any more. Different management and feeding styles will effect the performance and breeding abilities of the birds. There might be outcrosses, might not be. Never know what you get til you get em in the air.
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V99
Keep the best. Eat the rest.
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George R.
667 posts
May 10, 2008
9:28 PM
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wasnt Monty's ( RIP ) kits all Blue Bars ??????
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Scott
519 posts
May 10, 2008
9:58 PM
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Cliff, the few that have done well has buried the mutt genes by useing other famlilies to stabalize them, but if you want we will call them Turners anyway and give him all of the credit instead of the guys that moved thier families forward.
To deny that there aren't a few flying birds with Turners also in the back ground would be silly as it has been prooven
The only thing I have challanged is guys flying straight Turners doing well, not saying there aren't , maybe you could enlighten me.
George, Montys kits, were red bars , blue bars, blue checks and red checks for the most part,some were white flighted.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on May 10, 2008 10:20 PM
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katyroller
172 posts
May 10, 2008
10:02 PM
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Yeah, I think they were all BB's. Maybe he used some BB crosses to keep the color!LOL Just joking, I have all the respect in the world for Monty(RIP), Pensom and Turner. :)
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Santandercol
2479 posts
May 10, 2008
10:21 PM
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Nope,don't think so.He had BBs,Bchecks,reds n mealys with not much white flights.Think he had some BB Badges,none of these fancy colours tho.
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Kel.
Rum-30 Lofts
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Santandercol
2480 posts
May 10, 2008
10:21 PM
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Kel.
Rum-30 Lofts
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Alohabirds
156 posts
May 11, 2008
3:51 PM
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Bijkers are from Niebles??? WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do these look like Niebles?????
Last Edited by on May 18, 2008 5:30 PM
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birdman
561 posts
May 11, 2008
4:36 PM
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Scott, you said:
"Cliff, the few that have done well has buried the mutt genes by useing other famlilies to stabalize them, but if you want we will call them Turners anyway and give him all of the credit instead of the guys that moved thier families forward.".........
Scott,
Wasn't that the apparent goal in mind after the color was introduced? How else would you move forward in any family if you didn't breed for stable rolling?
Russ
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155
721 posts
Aug 01, 2008
9:24 PM
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EVILLOFT'S
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