155
410 posts
May 10, 2008
12:09 PM
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My Dominant Opal was found in a family of inbred Black Badge, Balds, and Saddles. Sam Wesley had got birds from me and was happier with them than this Black marked family. This family was from Illinois, I do not remember the fancier, Sam probably does. One of his concerns with the blacks was their inability to breed well. I was at his place for a visit and he had 20 or so of his black marked breeders boxed up to go to the pigeon dealer. He asked me if I wanted any of them. I found a slate tinged Black Badge with a small sliver of rosy beige where the feathers of the neck meet the breast feathers. It was an unusual color for this area, and something I had never saw before. I brought this hen home and tossed her in my Stock Cock holding pen (it was off season). My top Stock Cock at the time paired with her and they nested over the top of the of a closed up individual breeding coop. The first two youngsters were Dominant Opal hens. This explained the poor breeding results Sam had been having, the lethal effects of the Dominant Opal. These youngsters were spread opal, but very recognizable as Dominant opal. The recessive genes or combination of recessive genes that had kept it hidden in the Black family was broken when paired to my old Stock Cock. These Black marked birds were good average rollers. They very well could have been better than we thought, as we were not accomplished flyers at that time. The type on the Blacks was perfect. My Old Stock cock was a champion in my opinion. He would roll deep when high, shallow when low, very active pigeon, rolled with a very smooth, very small hole. He was out of pure Pensoms, all this happened in 1971.
I do not consider my OD's to be an introduced gene or mongrel. The Blacks the gene was found in were performing Rollers. They probably were not pure Pensoms, but I think they were Birminghams. Some of the OD's around the country did not originate from my stock, but it would be safe to say that lots of the good ones did. This gene and spin are connected somehow. The number of good ones of this color proves it to me.
I really enjoy your writings.
Ellis
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Scott
508 posts
May 10, 2008
12:17 PM
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Yea, I would hang my hat on that LOL ,irregardless why would you want something with a lethal gene in your gene pool ? I'm a nuts and bolts kind of guy
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on May 10, 2008 12:22 PM
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155
411 posts
May 10, 2008
1:02 PM
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As for your question Scott the only one that could answer that would have to be Ellis Mcdonald or Rick Schoening...
As my experience with this pair I raised ten birds no roll downs, great speed, and good quality the only thing is the variety of colors they throw this bird's were given to me by a man that got other birds he purchused this birds from Rich Schoening. That's all I know about this bird's and the letter that Rick Schoening sent to me that was sent to him from Ellis Mcdonald.
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Scott
509 posts
May 10, 2008
1:41 PM
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Ricks birds are recent English import (80s) based with a touch of old line Pensom if I remeber right, but mainly evolves around the English imports.
He is also playing with some birds from Heine from recent imports, as for the stuff from Ellis I'm not sure how it plays in or if it does play in at all to his main family.
I spent 3 days with Rick just last year, he made no mention of The Ellis birds playing into his family, this is probaby a question best posed to him.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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155
412 posts
May 10, 2008
1:51 PM
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thanks for the info...
EVILLOFT'S
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Scott
510 posts
May 10, 2008
2:55 PM
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If they are working for you that is all that matters !
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Electric-man
1571 posts
May 10, 2008
8:42 PM
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Katyroller, are you headhunting now or are you trying to contribute to the site! I'm confused!
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Val
"Site Moderator"
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katyroller
169 posts
May 10, 2008
8:58 PM
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No head hunting here, simply trying to get a straight answer. Keeping it at a level some like to operate at, hopefully I can get my point across and convince some to be a little more civil when replying to others!
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Electric-man
1573 posts
May 10, 2008
9:32 PM
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Scott was being civil there! He is saying that he doesn't agree, but if 155 is happy with them, that is all that matters!
Believe me, Scott was being very civil here, he has a very uncivil side! LOL
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Val
"Site Moderator"
Last Edited by on May 10, 2008 9:33 PM
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Scott
523 posts
May 10, 2008
10:44 PM
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Nothing wrong with him going a little head hunting on me, I certainly do my fair share LOL
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Ballrollers
1218 posts
May 11, 2008
7:11 PM
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155
What I find interesting, is how a few feathers out of the ordinary, can be the indication of a rare factor. How many of us, uneducated about the factors carried in the roller population, would even bother to see what it is?
For something to lead us in the right direction, a bird with a single strange feather, must perform good enough or through some twist of fate, end up as a breeder. Then it must breed another good roller in which it is bred back to, (except in the OD gene) and the conditions must be favorable to show the phenotype. If rr is in the genetic makeup, it could remain hidden for many generations. Or if spread was present, it too, could mask the phenotype.
Many many things could keep us from seeing anything out of the norm. And very very few of us would even be able to spot it, when present.
As ignorant as we keep ourselves to the genetic factors that have a mathematical possibility of showing up in our birds, it is truly amazing the depth of disdain we have over the color controversy.
If Knowledge is power, then why do we avoid the study of inheritance factors? The RO Factor is at the top of the list for inherited factors we need to understand. But we sit here mired in color controversy. The oppertunities to gain wisdom from the roller breders that post to RPDC is being overshadowed by feces in the beverage bowl. That is why I am a keg man myself.
Cliff
Last Edited by on May 11, 2008 7:50 PM
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155
416 posts
May 11, 2008
8:08 PM
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thanks for the insight
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