katyroller
178 posts
May 14, 2008
8:27 AM
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Tony, I don't believe there is any argument that the roller came before the BR. The BR was the end product of crossbreeding rollers and other breeds to improve performance. There is no doubt that the BR is a established and recognizable breed.
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Velo99
1733 posts
May 14, 2008
5:11 PM
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T,
I read an article from 1928. The homer guys were having a color debate even then. I coulda changed the names, posted it and no one would`ve known a thing.
In my personal opinion it is ultimately put upon the shoulders of the fanciers. This crop of new guys coming up,(shout out to Watts and Compton),is going to carry on the breed. What we teach them, what they take with them as they mature and bring in the next generation is the answer. Who knows?
Roller came first in the form of the FOR. he has been around for over 2000 years.
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V99
Keep the best. Eat the rest.
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Ballrollers
1232 posts
May 14, 2008
7:13 PM
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Scott,
You said, "I honestly think that these points were spun by the same guy and passed on as it is "exactly" the same spin.
It always progresses the same way these guys that have the mongrels, first they deny the cross breeding, then once that can't be denied as it was never a big secret and still goes on today (whether they do it or not) , they then attack the breed itself as not being a breed, samo samo."
Did you ever stop to think that if multiple roller men over a span of many years are coming up with the same logical line of reasoning based on the same facts in this debate, that perhaps there is something reasonable about it? Nope....I didn't think so.....
Cliff
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sippi
244 posts
May 14, 2008
7:18 PM
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Great post Tony. You have presented a side of the fence I can stand on. I dont advocate cross breeding by any means but just know what colors are found in the Orientals and they are diverse. Even some that arent in BR's rare or not.
Advertisements for "rare" colors are almost always a dead giveaway of poor quality. Most selling good birds dont mention anything about color just performance.
The performance should always come first and foremost.
Sippi
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
1217 posts
May 15, 2008
4:06 AM
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Sippi. I agree."Color is a Plus but Roll is a Must" . A motto I live by with rollers.David
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2503 posts
May 15, 2008
4:08 AM
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I like the direction this is going!
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
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nicksiders
2787 posts
May 15, 2008
6:58 AM
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The Rollers were there first. Somehow; someway; those few drunken English men(LOL) put together the altimate performing bird and it become known to the rest of the world as the Birmingham Roller. Over the years it has not gotten any better, but there are more good ones then there use to be.
This ought to get Wayne and the othe UK guys to say something(LOL)
Nick
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kcfirl
428 posts
May 15, 2008
9:22 AM
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Nick,
I intend to find out first hand what has changed in the last 50 years when I am there for the national fly in the midlands on June 28th and 29th with Wayne as my host.
Regards,
Ken
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nicksiders
2791 posts
May 15, 2008
10:59 PM
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I would like to spend some time with the UK flyers someday; that would be a kick.
Ken, I hope you have a good time
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DeepSpinLofts
745 posts
May 16, 2008
4:47 AM
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As a part-time geneticists I would have to say that the Birmingham Roller evolved through selective biogenetic breeding of crosses as were similarly done like the Thoroughbred Race Horse, The Staffordshire Terrier, The Doberman Pinscer... etc.
...however
It should be clarified that the roller pigeon in general is a direct descendent of the Tumbler pigeon... which is descended down from the rock-dove (Rock Pigeon).
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PLEASE NOTE: "Secondly, although an English carrier or short-faced tumbler differs immensely in certain characters from the rock-pigeon, yet by comparing the several sub-breeds of these breeds, more especially those brought from distant countries, we can make an almost perfect series between the extremes of structure.”
Taken from Charles Darwin’s The Origin Of Species
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Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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