bigwilly
589 posts
May 15, 2008
4:44 PM
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Hey Paul just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to post all that good info.
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BIG WILLY
TOPP FLIGHT/NCRC
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bigwilly
593 posts
May 15, 2008
5:09 PM
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Hey Paul wanted to see what people thought of your post. They might not like to hear that lol
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BIG WILLY
TOPP FLIGHT/NCRC
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Ballrollers
1239 posts
May 15, 2008
6:18 PM
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Thanks for the information, Paul. The more light we can shed on this thing, about what went on in the past, the clearer the facts will appear to us today. Man, there sure was a lot going on with these pigeons between 1900 and 1940!
It doesn't sound like the breed, as we know it today, was firmly established, yet, at that point in time.
Cliff
Last Edited by on May 15, 2008 6:21 PM
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3757
738 posts
May 15, 2008
7:29 PM
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Cliff - Lewis Wright and others wrote about Birmingham Rollers in the 1870's. There are also counts of "Rollers" imported out of England in the 1880's so we have some disagreements among historians on this one.
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ezeedad
519 posts
May 15, 2008
7:30 PM
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Hey Will,
I hear you. Sometimes people want to write their own version of history.. The guy that wrote that was probab;ly doing the same thing, but at least he was closer to the source.
Hope your having a good season with your birds..
Paul
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ezeedad
520 posts
May 15, 2008
7:34 PM
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Cliff, LaRon...
The writer doesn't make any reference to when this all happened. I'm pretty sure he was talking about sometime back in the 1800s...
Paul
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3757
739 posts
May 15, 2008
8:42 PM
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Paul - If he was speaking about the early 1800's it makes chronological sense.
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Scott
551 posts
May 15, 2008
9:26 PM
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I read this qute some time a ago and found it interesting history, not sure how Cliff tied into his mutt crossbreeding agenda though.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Santandercol
2513 posts
May 15, 2008
9:44 PM
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Oye,that's a low blow!!!Muddafire,you sure know how to pull'em Scott.LOL.O)UCH!!
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Kel.
Rum-30 Lofts
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Donny James
381 posts
May 15, 2008
9:54 PM
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hay ezeedad you posted some very good information and if you got any more can you please post.................donny james
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Velo99
1747 posts
May 17, 2008
12:12 PM
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Might just be closer than you think.
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V99
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DeepSpinLofts
759 posts
May 17, 2008
1:34 PM
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On Marco Polo's travels from Asia back into Europe he reportedly brought back with his many fine linens and silks some tumbling..... or acrobat pigeons as they were called centuries ago.
Maybe this is one of the ways that tumbler pigeons arrived into Europe via Asia.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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ezeedad
528 posts
May 17, 2008
11:57 PM
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From Fancy Pigeon Breeder: Pakistani website
All races of breeds of domestic pigeon columba livia domestic have been evolved from rock pigeon also called a rock dove columba livia or our jungli kabootar (wild pigeon) that cohabits with man every where in the world. The domestic pigeon breeds are believed to have been developed in the east and Europe had no original breed of its own. According to the Marco Polo, trade in pigeons was at its peak during his time along the silk route. This is because pigeon fancy was a status symbol amongst the mughals elite and gentry. Mughals are also supposed to have introduced this pet into the sub continent. The first fantail in Britain was gifted to Queen Elizabeth by great mughals emperor Akbar in the 16th century. In crusades Muslims used pigeons frequently as messengers.
The mughal Emperor Babar wrote in his biography about the sport of pigeon keeping, but Akbar the great was crazy about pigeon keeping. Abul Fazal (one of his senator) wrote that whenever king (Akbar) goes on a trip his men carry pigeons with him. Normally more than two thousands birds went with him. They were kept in special carriers. In his book (Aieen e Akbri) he told in detail about the kinds, breeding techniques, their special feed for flying, buying and selling of pigeons.
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ducket
5 posts
May 18, 2008
12:39 AM
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Hej All,
Who is Mr Karp ? I have never heard of this gentleman before, nor the Birmingham Roller Club he helped to form,
this Colour debate reminds me of the Dual Purpose Roller debate years ago, that turned out to be a load of rubbish and so is this Colour thing, why may I ask is it that it is only in America that you get these other colours ? and not in the rest of the Roller world ? am I expected to throw everything I know about Rollers out the door, based on one artickle and what the West of England Tumbler fanciers believe in ? I do not think so,I think if more fanciers spent more time under a kit of birds, we would see a lot more good Rollers and good kits, no doubt that these fanciers will say that they do watch their kits, all I can say to that is, obviously it is not enough time.
Eric Laidler, Denmark.
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DeepSpinLofts
764 posts
May 18, 2008
3:10 AM
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Now ezeedad that's some very good history you have provided for us all. I love to read passages like that.
{P.S.} Keep'em coming!
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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Velo99
1757 posts
May 18, 2008
7:22 AM
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Eric,
Please tell us what you believe the origins are. You guys are a lot closer to it than we are.
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V99
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ezeedad
529 posts
May 18, 2008
11:14 AM
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Ducket,
Arthur. C Karp was an American roller breeder of the early 1900s. If you search this site you can some more information on the history. Here is a little snippet I cut from this same site....
"in 1934, Manz along with a fancier named Frank Sinclair purchased the entire outstanding stud of A.C. Karp of Cleveland, Ohio.
Karp was a top-notch fancier, and an authority on Rollers. At that point, Les Manz blended the Whittinghams with the Karp birds even though they were totally different in type."
Acutally this endless color debate can be somewhat productive. Especially if it leads us to learn more about what we are doing. It is also very different from the dual purpose problem that caused show rollers to become a very different and seperate breed.
Nothing is wrong with knowledge. We can't automatically believe all that we hear or read, but that is no reason to stick our heads in the sand.
If you are interested and have enough time, between flying kits, this article is very informative:
http://www.roller-pigeon.com/articles/article.cfm/862632/7196
P. Gomez
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