Electric-man
1607 posts
May 21, 2008
8:36 PM
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I didn't have the priveledge or the smarts to travel and pick the "right" family! But I have Joe Urbans/Henderson birds, Higgins(Gary Stephens line) and some Rubys! I trust these breeders and I am going to devote some serious time in them before I give up!
I was at a futurity fly and auction this past weekend. Passed on some darn nice birds, I am kicking myself for passing on some Eldon Cheney birds that kicked butt in the fly, but I am committed! I have some very promissing young birds in the air and I am very pleased with my efforts so far! Just waiting for that "cream" to rise to the top! And I ain't talkin about color baby! LOL
I don't see color anymore! I just see the birds! I feel by narrowing to these families, I have reduced my chances of having a "mutt" gene pop up! I don't want to be influenced by a color at all!
Right or wrong, its just the way I'm gonna roll!
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Val
By the way, I have hundreds of old football cards from the 60s and 70s! LOL
"Site Moderator"
Last Edited by on May 21, 2008 8:38 PM
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MILO
1023 posts
May 21, 2008
8:53 PM
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Right on Val.
c
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Ty Coleman
310 posts
May 21, 2008
8:53 PM
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Milo im just as dedicated to my breed as you or yours i have traced mine back to before i was born. We see two totaly different sides to the post on this sight i havnt seen any one tearing the breed apart just educating on the diverse history of the breed.Milo are you always so insulting to others who do not share your same thought?Im a open minded person who can debate without calling names or smearing folks. Just a thought. Keep your eye in the sky right?
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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MILO
1024 posts
May 21, 2008
8:59 PM
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Ty.
"Milo are you always so insulting to others who do not share your same thought?"
Are you serious? There is a bunch of crap on here, and I am a bully because I stick up for the breed? I mean C'mon Ty... Toughen up a little. Where do you stand? You want to attack me... Go ahead, I'm a big boy.
Why do you get your feelings hurt? Are you feeling guilty? What are you doing for the breed? Taking potshots at Scott? "Doesn't fit his agenda" You are one to talk.
c
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Ty Coleman
311 posts
May 21, 2008
9:11 PM
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Did you see me call him a name ? no! did you see mee insult his birds? no! as for you being a big boy i dont know but i have a standard for respect and just ask for it in return if i refuse to aknowledge a fact that doesnt fit my agenda say so, i can handle it i dont cry about stuff i just think your point could be stated in a more tactfull and tastefull manor it doenst require much effort to be polite about things even in disagreement." Give respect and you will get respect." its simple. There is no need for disrespect in these threads. I commend you for protecting the purity of the Pensom strain.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
Last Edited by on May 21, 2008 11:42 PM
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sippi
280 posts
May 21, 2008
9:15 PM
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Milo you need to go back and read the posts again. As near as I can tell in the color threads the INSTIGATORS were posting facts. Sorry you could not answer back with any.
That said the difference between that and a post by Ray Sanchez is that I save and print Ray's pieces of history where as I just read the rest.
And yes I am just as dedicated to my family of birds or more than you are to yours. I will strive to work with them and improve them as long as I own them. I have always done this with any breed I work with of any species.
Personally I dont cross breed, I dont want any cross breeds, I just happen to believe that genetically all such crosses can be restored to the original performance with the color gene and still maintain the roll.
I do have some factors in my birds that regardless of where or when they occurred have no effect whatsoever on thier performance. I follow the roll. And I hate to side with Scott on this but as long as I follow the roll the color will probably bury itself. It will still be there if someone wanted to pull it out but will be painted over.
I also know most of the names you listed and have writings on, by, or about several of them and thier families. I collect every bit of information on the birds and families and men that carried them forth that I can find. I read at least a book a week about the breed, either history, genetics, the men, and the families. When I dont have a book I re-read them.
So you see I and many others you say are trying to tear the breed down probably know more history of the breed than you.
If everyone one the list would just go into debates, discussions, and such with an open mind we would all get along better. Or not.
Sippi
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Ty Coleman
312 posts
May 21, 2008
9:19 PM
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Food for thought." The pen is mightier than the sword"--"Kill you with kindness" I deal with rude people all day,but at the end of the day i write their bill and smile and tell them to have a nice day.I dont gouge but i dont cut slack were i could.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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Velo99
1785 posts
May 21, 2008
9:22 PM
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Milo,
I breed kickass performing BR`s. Straight up no chaser. I am now sure of my stock.
If he is chartruse he can stay if he performs properly.
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V99
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MILO
1025 posts
May 21, 2008
9:32 PM
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Ty.
I am so sorry if I offended you. I am quite approachable in real life. I just have an aggressive writing style. In fact, if I ever met you I would shake your hand. Sipi on the other hand, not so sure. LOL
c
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Ty Coleman
313 posts
May 21, 2008
9:33 PM
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Milo, if you go back a ways youll see after being called out several times i had my jets cooled by several,did i leave no, i studied took a diferent aproach and listened with a open mind formed my own opinions backed them up with facts, make a few post now and then and i could be wrong but i feel im respected by many on here even being a newbie. When im at work im thinking about rollers,while im eating, sleeping,and sitting in church on Sunday im thinking about rollers, while im on the John taking a crap im reading about rollers, dont doubt my dedication.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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MILO
1026 posts
May 21, 2008
9:34 PM
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Sippi.
Since you are all riled.
"I just happen to believe that genetically all such crosses can be restored to the original performance with the color gene and still maintain the roll."
This is BS.
c
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cr250
18 posts
May 21, 2008
9:35 PM
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I have always just been a backyard breeder.I would buy rollers from a few sources not really knowing where they came from.Never done any competition.Always just into it for the love of the hobby.I would like to compete though,it sounds like alot of fun.I would always pick what i want to breed from the air.After a while I would have some pretty good stock.They would just get better and better.Being a first time member of N.B.R.C. and this site
has taught me knowing where your birds came from is the first step to building the true birmingham roller family.Thats what I want for my birds.I don't worry about the color.Just want the best perfomance birds I can get and be able to pass it on knowing they are true birmingham rollers.
Brian
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MILO
1027 posts
May 21, 2008
9:35 PM
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It's all good Ty.
c
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Ty Coleman
314 posts
May 21, 2008
9:45 PM
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Milo, My wife stays on this sight almost all day we are both roller nuts i also imagine Tony's wife does also i see women post on here sometimes as well as young adults, and this is also a open sight for all the public to read. I confess ive got up from my chair took a blood pressure pill and went out side and put a sailor to shame at times and i make post to be spitefull but i try to keep the lick above the belt and clean as to the others reading.Sorry for the ramblings they gave me a shot of pain killer Thoridal and a anti inflamitory shot put me on steroids, naperson, and changed my blood pressure med all in one day and im a little grogy and cant sleep. Rhumitoid arthritis at 28 years old go figure? cant spell lol. Hey maybee i can get disability and fly birds all day ? lol, Milo were cool!
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
Last Edited by on May 21, 2008 9:47 PM
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MILO
1028 posts
May 21, 2008
9:46 PM
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LOL
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MILO
1029 posts
May 21, 2008
9:48 PM
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Good deal Brian.
c
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Ty Coleman
315 posts
May 21, 2008
9:51 PM
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Brian, looks like you headed in the right direction. Tony has some great birds from what i hear you ought to read some of the remarks from the guys flying them, Get good birds and develop a friendship with who you got them from as for they will be able to help you own your way.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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gabe454
926 posts
May 21, 2008
9:51 PM
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ty i know what you mean i take naproxen and other muscle relaxer for my back injury also vicodin at times and when you wake up in the morning it sucks
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454
TRIPLE "G" LOFT
L.P.R.C
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sippi
281 posts
May 21, 2008
9:55 PM
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Milo I never get riled. Just a different point of view.
Sippi
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MILO
1030 posts
May 21, 2008
9:56 PM
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That's it? I waited like ten minutes for a response...LOL
c
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cr250
19 posts
May 21, 2008
10:01 PM
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I've got 4 birds from tony.I started flying 2 of them and they are already trying to roll.They are still young.I'am afraid to fly them cause I don't want to lose them to bop.I think I'am going to keep them in and breed and see what the babys can do.
Brian
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Scott
637 posts
May 21, 2008
10:01 PM
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( And I hate to side with Scott on this but as long as I follow the roll the color will probably bury itself. It will still be there if someone wanted to pull it out but will be painted over. )
There you go sippi, that is the only way it will work regardless of whether pure or not you absolutly cannot take your eye off of the ball when it comes to the pairings.
And that includes not breeding out of birds that have faults because of the roll either, truelly good birds are like finding nuggets of gold and last year after year.
As for the burying term, that wasn't just my own term, it was also that from a flyer out of the colored Carolinas.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Ty Coleman
318 posts
May 21, 2008
10:17 PM
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Just making a statement no argument needed but the indigo and reduced gene is growing in my loft as the opal is probably going to hide itself best to best and keeping my eye in the sky, no other way! Im actualy going to have to color breed to keep it toned down i need to find a few awesome blue check hens because its overiding my self blacks.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
Last Edited by on May 21, 2008 11:41 PM
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Windjammer Loft
333 posts
May 22, 2008
2:56 AM
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I PERSONNELY don't believe in,nor do I have any use for pedigrees. How long are we going to keep KICKING a DEAD horse. Can't we just leave well enought alone. The issue of MONGRELS,COLOR BREEDING and the like... IT IS WHAT IT IS.. As stated before "IF it quacks like a duck,looks like a duck and swims like a duck,IT IS A DUCK". And no matter how times it will be brought up or hammered out,the outcome will NEVER change. Just my way of thinking. DON'T anyone take offense to this either.... Lets just roll on (excuse the pun)to more significant matters and subjects that need to be addressed about our HOBBY....
PLEASE...
Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on May 22, 2008 3:17 AM
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Ty Coleman
320 posts
May 22, 2008
4:21 AM
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im with ya Paul
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2540 posts
May 22, 2008
4:56 AM
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Hey C, I think my position is clear. No disagreement on the Birmingham Roller as breed.
However, just because a person might think something is "old", does not mean its not worthy of discussion/debate.
I think that when we are going to get involved with healthy debating over these "old" things, we better be able to make our point in a way that is both persuasive and logical.
I am always confused when I see one side or another at times resort to ridicule, personal attacks, snide innuendo in an attempt to disguise weak knowledge of the facts or weak ability to put on a good case.
At this level, we are becoming impossible people who can't be reasoned with. Just like kids...
I would rather someone not debate at all or at least be able to concede when the opponent has made a good and valid point. We learn something and move on until next time.
The way I view this thread in relationship to the other that has been so hot, is that it is just a way to refuse conceding that we are not able to generate a good persuasive logical argument for our position.
It's not that we don't have logic and documentation, I think sometimes our side would rather not have to work so hard laying it all out there in an effort to prove it.
Emotionalism will not make our point for us, no matter how much we wish it would. Good facts, documentation and reason will.
Having roller debates on "All Roller Talk" are totally appropriate, regardless of the roller topic. Sure we can have topics we all agree on, but nothing compares when to sides with opposing views sit down at their keyboards and debate their positions.
I learn more when I disagree with someone and then attempt to understand their side. It allows me to consider a different perspective, provide a new bit of information, validate my position or to simply know others think like I do.
What SHOULD be happening is that each time, the level of facts, information and sources, should increase so that the uniformed, curious and those that want to know the truth can form their own opinion, not because "I" or "you" said so, but because of the strength and presentation of the argument.
Resorting to emotionalism will not protect the Birmingham Breed from crossbreeding no matter how well intentioned on out part.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
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Electric-man
1609 posts
May 22, 2008
6:58 AM
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Very well spoken "T"!
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Val
"Site Moderator"
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MILO
1031 posts
May 22, 2008
7:48 AM
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Indeed.
I need a break guys. See you later.
c
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Electric-man
1610 posts
May 22, 2008
8:10 AM
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C'mon Milo, nobody is asking you to leave!
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Val
"Site Moderator"
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MILO
1032 posts
May 22, 2008
8:35 AM
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I know. It's just stale. Really, really, stale.
There was no question when I started the thread who would respond to it. I wasn't surprised with the emotional responses either. It's funny how some guys find it as an attack on their roller knowledge or personal intellect. A lot of guys hide in the shadows and let the passionate duke it out in the open.
I think the breed is bigger than it's handlers. There is so much junk I read on here that it can't be any good at all. The only response post that was worth my posting in the first place was cr250's (Brian) response. He is excited, and really on the right track with rollers. And that Chris sclarollers guy that just posted. He was buying up birds left and right... now it seems he is on track. He was asking the right questions and seems to have gotten the right answers. That's what it is all about.
Don't get me wrong, the site overall has good stuff on it, but there are some that use it as a platform for whatever floats their boat.
I come and go. When I find myself scratching my head as to why I come in here to post, then it's time to get back in the yard. You know me, I'll be back. I'm like Scott, "Bozo's" pecking on the keyboard" aren't a problem...LOL It's my interest level in flinging mud that makes me take a break. See ya around.
c
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2542 posts
May 22, 2008
8:57 AM
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Apparently we were all just addressed by one of the self-anointed roller gawds. LOL
Well I will only stand so some much abuse by a bully who wants to insult me and everyone else who participate here.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
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Square
326 posts
May 22, 2008
2:38 PM
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WOW! Tony that was a pretti Intence E-mail. yea just reading this tread I dont understand the whole color thing and mongrol thing. I do agree with some of the input about building a family of your own. I really dont see much of a topic on that, just alot of name dropping,,, it is really fustrating!! and those folks just keep building the big names,, dont get me wrong the big names are big names for a reason,,, but dam some need to give them a break!!! its almost like thease guys are on some unreachable level! that's what keeps me driving in compition, when I rock the house I dont want to be another guy building the big names just want to build a name for myself. If a rookie was reading some of this stuff he would probally think that building a family without big names couldent happen...Im lookin foward to the guy who spanks everyone with feed store rollers...LOL
Square
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"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
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