quickspin
653 posts
May 27, 2008
11:09 PM
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Lets say I have a certain strain that I have been working with for around 14 years now, and want to stay with the same strain as I have kept it pure. Will obtaining the same strain help in what way? It's 14 years apart from the original or looking for a better strain be even better.
I want to clear this up. Why is it that some look for the same strain that is not even close to the one they have?
Ones you breed birds a certain way I think you mouve a way from that family and create your own.
Looking at one bird pedigree from one strain and looking at another bird from the same strain, some times the birds have no relationship up to the 7 generation. I think that is like almost getting a new strain from some one else and starting again.
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SALAS LOFT
Last Edited by on May 27, 2008 11:10 PM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2561 posts
May 27, 2008
11:39 PM
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Consider creating a sub-strain within your own birds that follows a different branch from the base birds.
Do it so that, say the 5th generation offspring of the sub-strain are only connected to other base branches via the original base pair.
An outcross that is not a true outcross.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
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3757
754 posts
May 28, 2008
2:31 AM
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Salas - I have always created sub families within my own strain so that I do not need an outcross from anyone. If you do this you will have enough birds for a lifetime and never need a "cross". Many guys cross birds for no apparent reason just to be crossing because of some non-sense hearsay that the have heard. Also, if your birds are doing fine and there is no need to bring another bird in. Start creating sub families within your strain.
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quickspin
655 posts
May 28, 2008
6:56 AM
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I have a sub family with my own family that is close but not too close so if I need a out cross I have it.
I was asking this question for some one else not me.
The main question is are the birds the same 14 years apart if they have not been cross from the original back at any time. Let said I have some of your birds Laron that you gave me 10+ years ago. You loose your birds and you have a couple left so you come to me and ask me for some birds to give you. Will this birds help you even if they are 10-14 years apart. And this birds I bred my way and are not close to your standars. Or is this the same as obtaining a new strain from some one else?
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SALAS LOFT
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3757
755 posts
May 28, 2008
9:12 AM
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Commonly the answer would be no. The reason is that we select the birds differently. There are no two people who select the birds exactly the same. There may be similarities but it will not be exact. In a case were two individuals are working as a team and help each other select, pair etc it would be fine but in rollers you do not find to many people who do this as you do in homers. So overall my answer is no the birds would be different in my opinion. It matters little if they have the same ancestry if the selections are different. There was a famous breeder in Los Angeles who passed away in the nineties and he was an awesome breeder and selector of Birmingham rollers. There are many guys who received birds from him but the birds are totally different from his as they (for the majority) did not know how to select like he did. Today, many of these guys say this is from the famous breeders strain but in actuality the birds are as different as night and day. They are not really the same only on paper.
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quickspin
660 posts
May 28, 2008
10:16 AM
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Thanks Laron that was the answer I was looking for. I agreed with you 100%. Some don't agreed on that they think that by looking good on paper or having the same strain is all what matters.
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SALAS LOFT
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Square
337 posts
May 28, 2008
10:20 AM
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Yea quickspin I talked about this on a tred last year,, I agree alot with with was said, about people looking for diffrent thing's. Like when I started with the english birds from Rex. When I got the birds they were really big and long, and came in a few diffrent colors. Over the years I have brought the size down alot but in doing that I lost some colors' Basically the Red bald's. So definantly after 14 0r even 5 years birds off the same stock can be truly diffrent. It's all in what you want,I think history of rollers is good to look at, But can we make it repeat it's self, even with 1,000 pedegrees I dont know??? Guess it's important to know where my families came from but are they the same as the originals? In my opion that's what makes diversity in this sport, If we didn't have that then we would all be flying the same birds, no matter how far sepperated we were from the originals.. So the awnser to your question would be yes, vary diffrent, I like the level of accountability, that comes with building your own family, if they are junk you arn't mudding up the next man's name, and if they are good you arn't ridding some Great guys coat tail..Hope this helps..
Square
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"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
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quickspin
661 posts
May 28, 2008
10:28 AM
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Like one of my friends has Scott birds and his are real frequent and many said that you can't compete with the Scott birds because they are not frequent. It's all what you breed for. Like my Scott birds are not the same as his and my birds take more time to come in to the roll than his, they were bred different.
His Scott birds are now his to my opinion because he made them to his way.
Hey Mark,
Take some pictures of your female dog.
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SALAS LOFT
Last Edited by on May 28, 2008 10:34 AM
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Square
338 posts
May 28, 2008
10:37 AM
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Right on, 'I had asked this question before, "When do the birds become your's?" and I got everything from the minute you buy them, to as soon as you raise young. there is alot of diffrent opion's out there..I just want to roll some bird's I coud be proud of...Ya Kno...
Square..
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"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
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quickspin
662 posts
May 28, 2008
10:40 AM
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In a couple of months you and Bengie will have some good ones if everything goes to plan. Having fresh blood to both will bring out the vigor.
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SALAS LOFT
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Square
339 posts
May 28, 2008
12:34 PM
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Yep lookin foward to it,, also I will be comming down to L.A next week for some training.. I will make time to pay youguys a visit,, thanx agin for comming up, It was really a bummer when that fluke BOP beat up my kit. I have been flying about everyday without incident...great to have meet youguys...
Truly, Square
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"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
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Mount Airy Lofts
752 posts
May 28, 2008
9:04 PM
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Once selection comes into play, you know how that goes...
If I find a certain trait like style with velocity in a certain bird. Finding a full bro or sister or Fater or Mother is the only way to see which has the goods. Any thing else would pretty much be pointless in my endeavors.
Just my take,
Thor
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It's all about the friends we make :)
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