Scott
733 posts
Jun 07, 2008
9:32 AM
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Paul, my first rollers were when I was 13 or so, pigeons were one of my FFA projects through high School.
Prior to about ten years ago I was just a backyard flyer, I have been flying and taking the breed serious for about ten years now.
Paul I take these birds serious, year in and year out it is about breeding, training, selecting and culling to get to the cream, I train birds in the morning before work and when I get off of work I train birds, that is what we as flyers do.
Guys like us don't have time or want to waste perch space on "projects", it is only about one thing , that is fielding the best birds that we can muster and mould into a team of Birmingham Rollers.
We don't just talk about flying or about so called Champions, we put em up for the world to see,that is what flyers do.
I think you should think about flying this Paul ! lets see the rubber meet the road.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jun 07, 2008 9:35 AM
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3757
794 posts
Jun 07, 2008
9:33 AM
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Scott - What are you talking about we are not culling our best? Who ever said that? This is exactly what I am talking about when it comes to interpretation. Where did you read or interpret that out of what I said? When Keith asked me to put two birds in his futurity fly I sent the money and the two birds right away. I grew up fighting and challenging others and when you get older you realize that this is not only what it is about. We differ greatly and I still respect your opinion and do not care if others respect mine. This is where I am in life today! If you ever have a heart attack or become ill you will realize what I am talking about as I have been through it.
Last Edited by on Jun 07, 2008 9:43 AM
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ezeedad
634 posts
Jun 07, 2008
10:00 AM
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Scott,
You say " I have been flying and taking the breed serious for about ten years now."
Well, I have been taking the breed seriously far longer than you have in that case.
and:
"Paul I take these birds serious, year in and year out it is about breeding, training, selecting and culling to get to the cream"
Don't you think this is what practically all roller breeders do?
"I train birds in the morning before work and when I get off of work I train birds, that is what we as flyers do."
Does this genetically change the rollers?? No.!! Of course not. So the reason for your success is that you have acquired a top strain of rollers fron Kenny Billings and you have dedicated yourself, wholeheartedly to flying breeding and training them for competition.
But you apparently have a very narrow view and are blind to the bigger picture. That, combined with your self righteous attitude and outspoken blowhard attitude make you almost unbearable. You need to take off your blinkers...
Smell the roses... Learn grace and humility.. Just a suggestion, buddy...
Gomez
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Scott
734 posts
Jun 07, 2008
10:03 AM
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LaRon , I'm no Spring Chicken trust me LOL, but yes I am competitive,always have been, it is what drives me in both work and play.
Not all are though,and that is ok also, personaly I thought such a fly would be fun win loose or draw, not a bragging match, guys like me and Keith know better than that as I have said over and over again, even the best of our birds or teams can and will make fools of us on any given day.
I have had far more bad flys with a judge under them than good fly's, it is the nature of the beast and why you or anyone else will ever here me bragging up my birds.
I have seen my birds the best that I have seen across the country, and I have seen them easily match the worst that I have seen across the country.
But yet I still love to pit them against others any chance I get, it is what keeps sharp and focused in the air and the breeding loft, few have the will or the fire to dress up for the dance that isn't there.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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3757
795 posts
Jun 07, 2008
10:16 AM
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Scott - I guess or philosophies are different and that is cool. Also, I have known Keith London for a little over 30 years so you are not telling me anything new about him. He has always been competitive and so have I in martial arts, education and rollers. I have a different view point on life and pigeons. Also, Paul was competing hard and heavy in the early 70's and that is how we met at a CRS fly. Paul, those birds were screaming back then (The little muffs you were flying).
Paul - Great post!!!!
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Scott
735 posts
Jun 07, 2008
10:34 AM
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Scott,
You say " I have been flying and taking the breed serious for about ten years now."
Well, I have been taking the breed seriously far longer than you have in that case.
(well lets see it then, don't just tell us)
and:
"Paul I take these birds serious, year in and year out it is about breeding, training, selecting and culling to get to the cream"
Don't you think this is what practically all roller breeders do?
(absolutly not)
"I train birds in the morning before work and when I get off of work I train birds, that is what we as flyers do."
Does this genetically change the rollers?? No.!! Of course not.
( absoluty it does)
So the reason for your success is that you have acquired a top strain of rollers fron Kenny Billings and you have dedicated yourself, wholeheartedly to flying breeding and training them for competition.
( there is a world of difference between "acquiring" and moveing forward with them, if it was only that easy everyone would be flying great birds)
But you apparently have a very narrow view and are blind to the bigger picture. That, combined with your self righteous attitude and outspoken blowhard attitude make you almost unbearable. You need to take off your blinkers...
( So I take it that you don't want to actually fly ?)
Smell the roses... Learn grace and humility.. Just a suggestion, buddy...
Gomez
(buddy, these birds have humbled me more times than you know, and with a yard full of people that traveled a very long way to see them,that is the part of flying that flyers know all to well, we don't have the luxery of just talking about it)
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jun 07, 2008 10:36 AM
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COYOTE33
123 posts
Jun 07, 2008
10:53 AM
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Now you see what i'm talking about georgeR! variation! we
can't even agree on who fly's their birds and who doesn't, I'm a flyer and your not a flyer! how in the hell are we going to know what a champion is if we keep putting
one another down. i cant beleive that anybody in this hobby
doesn't want the best some of us may need to be more educated on a champion but i'm sure we all want the best.we're not going to get it if we put one another down.
coyote
Last Edited by on Jun 07, 2008 10:57 AM
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ezeedad
635 posts
Jun 07, 2008
11:31 AM
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Scott,
You say " I have been flying and taking the breed serious for about ten years now."
Well, I have been taking the breed seriously far longer than you have in that case.
(well lets see it then, don't just tell us)***
Scott, I just retired.. I finally have the time to give to the birds... I'm training birds... not to let you see it.. but for my own personal enjoyment.. I may compete..I may not.. If I do mcompete, I hope you see them.. and If I don't compete, I still hope that you see them.
and:
"Paul I take these birds serious, year in and year out it is about breeding, training, selecting and culling to get to the cream"
Don't you think this is what practically all roller breeders do?
(absolutly not) Well... actually you could be right here.. but don't try to apply that crap to me..!!
"I train birds in the morning before work and when I get off of work I train birds, that is what we as flyers do."
Does this genetically change the rollers?? No.!! Of course not.
( absoluty it does)
..Hell no it doesn't..!! Genetics is based only on the selections we use to make the next generations... I could go on about this.. selecting for type, character etc... using the non roller in the stock loft and so on... Picking only from the air is not the only way...!! Take off those blinkers..
So the reason for your success is that you have acquired a top strain of rollers fron Kenny Billings and you have dedicated yourself, wholeheartedly to flying, breeding, and training them for competition.
( there is a world of difference between "acquiring" and moveing forward with them, if it was only that easy everyone would be flying great birds)
You are ignoring that I was giving you a lot of credit here for your work..
But you apparently have a very narrow view and are blind to the bigger picture. That, combined with your self righteous attitude and outspoken blowhard attitude make you almost unbearable. You need to take off your blinkers...
( So I take it that you don't want to actually fly ?)
You are ignoring what I said again... Well I can't blame you... I already answered to flying issue..
Smell the roses... Learn grace and humility.. Just a suggestion, buddy...
Gomez
(buddy, these birds have humbled me more times than you know, and with a yard full of people that traveled a very long way to see them,that is the part of flying that flyers know all to well, we don't have the luxery of just talking about it)
Maybe you're a "hard cure" then... cuz that humility hasn't sunk in deep enough yet.. And as for me, you can ask those that know me.. I'm not a talker or braggart.. I prefer to let the birds do the talking for me.. I guess that's why some people know about me, because I haven't competed since the 80s, and haven't gone to hardly any shows till recently.
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Just Our Opinions
Scott & Gomez
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Scott
737 posts
Jun 07, 2008
12:10 PM
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( how in the hell are we going to know what a champion is )
There is no such thing as a champion , there are bad birds and the rare exceptional bird and then we have everything in-between, it is really that simple.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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George R.
753 posts
Jun 07, 2008
12:24 PM
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I agree Scott
If someone hands you a Pedigree with the words Champion written on the you better RUN !!
Except Hector who has a Ped from the Bird that was a Competition "Champion" many moons ago, the Bob Scott Bird.
Tha Novice
George
Last Edited by on Jun 07, 2008 12:31 PM
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Scott
738 posts
Jun 07, 2008
12:25 PM
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(..Hell no it doesn't..!! Genetics is based only on the selections we use to make the next generations... I could go on about this.. selecting for type, character etc... using the non roller in the stock loft and so on... Picking only from the air is not the only way...!! Take off those blinkers..)
The air always comes first with me Paul,always ! only after that does everything else come into play, and yes you are right there is more to it than just out of the air, But with me that is the first step or I don't even look at it, when a bird goes into stock I want to know what it is made of, I don't care if it is out of my best pair or not, I will cull a bum out of them as fast as anything else,and there isn't a pair out there that won't throw a bum, my goal is eliminating such birds out of my gene pool as much as possible.
I always have a few birds in the A-team that are fine birds in the air,but for onereason or another they won't be tried in the stock loft.
But I can assure that a man that flys and prooves a bird out hard for a couple of seasons and uses it in stock based only on the air will go much futher over all than one that doesn't , that is a given,without working the birds hard no one has a clue where they are going with them, the best gene pools can be ruined beyond repair in short order.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jun 07, 2008 12:34 PM
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Scott
739 posts
Jun 07, 2008
12:27 PM
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(Maybe you're a "hard cure" then... cuz that humility hasn't sunk in deep enough yet.. And as for me, you can ask those that know me.. I'm not a talker or braggart.. I prefer to let the birds do the talking for me.. I guess that's why some people know about me, because I haven't competed since the 80s, and haven't gone to hardly any shows till recently.)
This one isn't even worth a response
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Scott
740 posts
Jun 07, 2008
12:30 PM
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(But you apparently have a very narrow view and are blind to the bigger picture. That, combined with your self righteous attitude and outspoken blowhard attitude make you almost unbearable. You need to take off your blinkers...
( So I take it that you don't want to actually fly ?)
You are ignoring what I said again... Well I can't blame you... I already answered to flying issue..)
Paul, that is because I don't take you serious, and it is obvious that you are just skirting the issue of putting them up by useing personal attacks, such attacks honestly don't bother me,you may want to try another avenue to change the subject.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jun 07, 2008 12:38 PM
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katyroller
218 posts
Jun 07, 2008
1:33 PM
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"No one,I repeat, no one is breeding better quality than many of the competition flyers, breeding,flying and training is our heart and soul."
Scott, How do you justify a statement like this? There are many individuals who choose not to compete for various reasons but are TRULY dedicated to raising the best quality birds possible. As stated earlier, you MUST first determine what standard you are judging these "champions" against. If your standard calls for a clean, deep(at least 20'),donut hole spinner, then I don't believe the average competition breeder can be successful at breeding good
numbers of champions as described above and at the same time be successful at competition flying. My experience has been that to truly enjoy the type of champion described you have to judge that bird as an individual or a member of a very small kit because these types of champions tend to be just that, individuals.
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Scott
741 posts
Jun 07, 2008
1:50 PM
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Kat, like I said, I'm a competitor and have been not only in pigeons but also in other sports,and in business.
Competition is a driving force regardless of what it is,like it or not that is the way it is and the way it will always be, I easily stand by that statement 110 0/0 .
Kat, not only did I throw that statement out there, but I also threw out a way where those don't a agree could step up, if you havn't noticed there are no takers.
What kicked this off ? some trying to tell us "competion" champion and that it is somehow different.
I called B.S. on it and even said we'll play by your rules, then I got called a blowhard along with a host of other names,I heard everything except "lets fly" hmmm go figure.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jun 07, 2008 2:02 PM
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katyroller
219 posts
Jun 07, 2008
2:02 PM
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Scott, That's cool. I need to go fly "my champions". What it all comes down to, is we each pay for the feed our birds eat and we choose the standard that we judge against. Everyone contributes to the hobby positive or negative, wether they compete or just enjoy their own backyard. :)
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elopez
1454 posts
Jun 07, 2008
2:04 PM
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Now that sounds like a heck of a plan. Keith said he is GAME!
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
http://lopezloft22.bravehost.com/
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Scott
742 posts
Jun 07, 2008
2:07 PM
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( Everyone contributes to the hobby positive or negative, wether they compete or just enjoy their own backyard. :) )
Very true and well spoken
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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ezeedad
636 posts
Jun 07, 2008
2:24 PM
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Scott,
We have already discussed flying against each other. I haven't forgotten. I know you don't take me seriouly, but that's because you've never seen my birds spin.
I will be glad to fly best individual against your best. We can also make it worth our while by loser pays for the others airfare and room and board. You'll just have to wait till I'm ready... Is that a problem?
Gomez
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Scott
744 posts
Jun 07, 2008
2:35 PM
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Not a problem paul,we woudn't want anything less than you being ready , we will work out the details once you are game.
Scott
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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elopez
1455 posts
Jun 07, 2008
6:26 PM
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Scott,
Abel Ibarra would like to fly with you and Keith as well. He said it could be a 3 vs 3. I'm sure it would be a great event/fly's, if it happens.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
http://lopezloft22.bravehost.com/
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Scott
745 posts
Jun 07, 2008
6:53 PM
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Efren, lets see, three to the bone hard core flyers hmmmm is that fair ?
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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smoke747
1190 posts
Jun 07, 2008
7:46 PM
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WOW!
So are we flying or not? Everybody just chill out for a minute. The indivivdual is important to the hobby as well as kit competition. It's just that individual fliers guys strive to put up one champion per year and are satisfied if they succeed. kit competition guys strive to put up 20 of those in one kit and if we succeed we are satisfied somewhat, but if we produce 1 bird worth mentioning we are discussted. It would seem that the rollers being bred these days should progressed beyond 1 "champion" a year. Everything else has gotten better or more efficient why can't the roller?
check this out; if a champion rolls 20 - 40' once a min with ex speed, style, and velocity like a spinning ball with a whole in it, what would happen if you put 20 of those in one kit? NOW IMAGINE THAT! GET THAT IMAGE IN YOUR HEAD. THAT IS WHAT I AM TRYIMG TO DO AS A COMPETITION FLIER!!!!
once a min for 20min should be a good kit plus q x d
priceless
smoke747
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Keith London
ICRC
Last Edited by on Jun 07, 2008 8:01 PM
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George R.
756 posts
Jun 07, 2008
7:51 PM
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Keith
I agree with what you say, everyone knows who fly's Birds and who doesnt, it aint no SECRET.
All anyone has to do is pick up a NBRC Bulletin and the score sheets are right there,
the Novice
George
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katyroller
225 posts
Jun 07, 2008
8:01 PM
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check this out; if a champion rolls 20 - 40' once a min with ex speed, style, and velocity like a spinning ball with a whole in it, what would happen if you put 20 of those in one kit? NOW IMAGINE THAT! GET THAT IMAGE IN YOUR HEAD. THAT IS WHAT I AM TRYIMG TO DO AS A COMPETITION FLIER!!!!
Keith, What you describe above is great and it would be great if that was everyones goal as a competition flier. That should also be the goal of backyard fliers. IMHO the problem is too many have lowered their standards and are happy with short(less than 20') frequent birds as long as they are getting 1/2 to 3/4 turns with the possible elusive full turn. I have no problem with competition flying and plan to start flying comps. again next year. How well I'll do is up in the air but either way the fellowship and competition will be great.
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smoke747
1192 posts
Jun 07, 2008
8:05 PM
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kaytyroller,
i breed my birds to a standard where, if judged in kit comp they would do welland if judged on an individual basis they will still do good.
smoke747
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Keith London
ICRC
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Scott
747 posts
Jun 07, 2008
8:17 PM
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(IMHO the problem is too many have lowered their standards and are happy with short(less than 20') frequent birds as long as they are getting 1/2 to 3/4 turns with the possible elusive full turn. )
Kat, what you wrote above is a myth,and it is what most non flyers speal out and hide behind and that is why I don't take backyard flyers seriously.
I don't know a single flyer(and I know many) that breeds for such birds, not a single one.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jun 07, 2008 8:23 PM
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katyroller
226 posts
Jun 07, 2008
8:23 PM
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Keith, I don't doubt you for a second, you are well known in the hobby for flying a high quality family. My limited exposure to kit competitions left me with the impression that the most important goal was concert performance. I understand the comp. scoring standard but the kits I saw winning were short and frequent kits. I understand my views are skewed by the fact that I am a fan of the deep roller.
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katyroller
227 posts
Jun 07, 2008
8:33 PM
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Scott, I don't think anyone is deliberately breeding for short rolling birds. I just don't feel most comp. fliers give depth the same level of importance as concert performance or frequency. With my family of birds I have depth and decent speed, now I am working on roll quality. :)
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smoke747
1193 posts
Jun 07, 2008
8:48 PM
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I agree kat, that does happen, hell I scored big with a short kit,but I don't breed for it. some may have lowered their standards and it's unfortunate but all comp fliers can't be judged for that.
smoke747
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Keith London
ICRC
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velocity1
21 posts
Jun 07, 2008
9:47 PM
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Scott,
Did you or do you still raise gamefowl?
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birdman
596 posts
Jun 07, 2008
10:24 PM
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Katy, I personally value velocity and style before depth.
Breed from the fastest, stylish spinners and depth will take care of itself.
Russ
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COYOTE33
124 posts
Jun 07, 2008
11:56 PM
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Thanks for keeping it real Keith, with the short kit.
I have to say im with you on the dream kit, everybody rolling 20plus perfect style with the hole man thats it.
when you get it,just make sure im one of the first ones to see them.
coyote
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3757
796 posts
Jun 08, 2008
5:54 AM
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This topic of champion really brought to light to me that fanciers are going to believe what they perceive no matter what evidence or truths are before them. It reminds me of a discussion at a college seminar that I had with a well known supremist who did not believe that all men are descendants of the same person. He also believed that some groups are inferior no matter if the data actually proved that this was not true.
I have decided this is my last post and the reason is that the misunderstandings and misinterpretations are unbelievable and no matter what is discussed individuals skew what is said and believe what they are going to believe no matter what. It is an interesting dilemma. Here are a few things that I must say, which it is not going to matter, before I leave the forum:
1. People who fly individual birds are not only wanting one bird a year or only one bird in a kit of 20 (This is not true) but the goal is having twenty birds in a kit. The difference is when a contest is held the owner designates before the fly the one bird that will be judged on the 30 point system. We also have a multi-bird fly and the only birds that are scored are the ones that perform correctly together (It may sound like kit competition but there is a big difference and it is no use going into details).
2. The largest roller organization in the world does not dictate what is true or not true regarding Birmingham rollers. It is so strange today to hear fanciers who are Samurai for the organization as if this group is the god of rollers (I originally joined in 1976 or 77 and have been a member of an on since then). Now, please do not tell me all of the great things and accomplishments that the organization has done because I know this and agree to it but to tell me that because this group says it that makes it right that is caca la vaca. It does not necessarily make them wrong but my goodness what has become of people. Do we voice or opinions anymore. If they keep raising the price of gas to $20 a gallon do we just pay it like robots? A young man I was speaking to recently who has been trying to get an advertisement posted, in the bulletin of the largest roller organization in the world, and he stated to me that they would not accept his money. That was kind of puzzling to me but I only heard his side of the story and in all farness I need to hear both sides.
3. Here is a phrase I remember my uncle Francois telling me when I was a child “Communication peut surmonter tout ce qui arrive contre toi dans le monde si ca c’est vrai communication cher”. “Communication can overcome anything that comes against you in this world if it is true and sincere. It was an old Cajun phrase that helped us out in all aspects of life.
4. Lastly, I wish all of the roller fanciers well and keep the birds spinning! (Cannot we all just get along? 1992 Rodney King) ?
Last Edited by on Jun 08, 2008 5:56 AM
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DeepSpinLofts
848 posts
Jun 08, 2008
6:56 AM
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re: A Champion Performing Roller Pigeon
Hmm.... let's see here.
Ahh yes!
The best method in trying to have one within your possession can be be achieved by simply:
====> "Breeding Best to Best"!
...however
Concentration on the stock loft is perhaps the best way for all of us to genetically engineer those top notch spinners we all desire for competition. The key formula here is having the proper stock to begin with in the first place.
NOTE: We get this particular stock by selectively picking the very best performers out of the air.
...and
The rest is merely left up to feeding, breeding, cleaning, training and routinely flying (proper loft management).
That pretty much wraps it up!
MEMO: A conversation across the table from a wise man is better than years of study of only books.... for its true that wisdom is acquired by an inquiring mind.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
Last Edited by on Jun 08, 2008 6:57 AM
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ezeedad
637 posts
Jun 08, 2008
8:20 AM
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Laron,
I have to agree with you. When truth is distorted and ignored, there is no sense in continuing a conversation.
Paul G
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Electric-man
1693 posts
Jun 08, 2008
8:24 AM
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I wished you would reconsider Dr. Laron! You would be greatly missed by most, me included!
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Val
"Site Moderator"
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COYOTE33
125 posts
Jun 08, 2008
9:07 AM
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Man Laron, you can't give up now. I feel your frustration but there are to many of us that now what a champion is. i know you and i know what you stand for, but quitting is not the answer. we have the tools to show these guys whats up, we just have to show them.
coyote
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gotspin7
1342 posts
Jun 08, 2008
10:42 AM
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Laron, I think you are leaving to quick. We all have our different views on the birds, I think this was a good topic.
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Sal Ortiz
Last Edited by on Jun 08, 2008 11:18 AM
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Scott
750 posts
Jun 08, 2008
1:25 PM
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LaRon, I certainly don't want to see you go, I like you and I think that you are a real asset !!!!
Scott
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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3757
798 posts
Jun 08, 2008
1:39 PM
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I have to say thanks for all of the kindness and friendships I have made on this forum but I will be leaving for now and hopefully I will return in a year or so. Keep up the great work all and keep um spinning!!!
Thanks to all of you!
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PR_rollers
1171 posts
Jun 08, 2008
1:44 PM
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Laron reconsider it..you voice your own opinion so do others is up to us to balance it out. but without one side it leaves us no choice.. ----------
Ralph
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George R.
759 posts
Jun 08, 2008
2:31 PM
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Hey LaRon
I hope you reconsider , you and your knowledge are a asset to this site and everyone who visit here.
I know not everyone agrees on all subject's but thats just the way life is.
I dont agree with Scott , Tony, and Ken B., Pual G., and who knows how many others on all Pigeon subjects but I still consider them my freinds and I respect them.
At the end of the day we all have something in common and that is we all like Pigeons.
Most people already think we are Nuts when we tell them we raise Pigeons ( flying Rats to most people) but I think we can all still get along and share our beliefs even if they are different.
If you do decide to take a Break thats cool just dont be a stranger stop by and say hello and share some knowledge once in a while.
take care
the Novice
George
Last Edited by on Jun 08, 2008 2:33 PM
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Scott
751 posts
Jun 08, 2008
3:43 PM
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Scott, I don't think anyone is deliberately breeding for short rolling birds. I just don't feel most comp. fliers give depth the same level of importance as concert performance or frequency. With my family of birds I have depth and decent speed, now I am working on roll quality. :)
Duane, now we are getting into the nuts & bolts,first I think that we both can agree that a kit of short workers is as about as exciting as watching grass grow.
And I think that we can agree that watching a kit of birds flying around like a team of racers is also about as fun as clipping our toe nails.
First I will start by saying that I breed for what I like, that being quality and depth and birds with heart.
For me the number one critea is quality , I want them rolling clean and straight with high wing and at a decent speed.
As for frequency and depth, neither mean any thing to me if the quality isn't there, and without capability of quality they are never even looked at, in fact here I consider them culls.
Frequency is a great thing, as long as it is not from instability, frequency from instability is also a quality killer most of the time because they want to fight the roll.
These are the birds that roll and roll blowing out the back of the kit or not kitting, when young such birds don't bother m as I breed a stable family and such birds can be great birds once they get a handle on the roll,until then though such birds have no value in my A team.
Depth is also a great thing, but without quality I would rather watch my old lab scratch fleas.
And if it is from instability the quailty is trashed making it useless, when young I keep flying hard until they get a handle on it.
The bottom line Duane is I want and expect it all out of my birds, and I breed my fair share of solid quality 30-40 fters that will shoot back to the kit like shot out of a slingshot,much more depth than that and it is a stability issue (there are exceptions).
The goal is always to breed the highest quality deep birds that have the heart to handle doing it once a minute or a tad more, it is a never ending quest.
I think that it is also important to note that a good team is not good every day, nor is a great bird good every day, it depends on conditions and condition of the birds.
As for competion,the quality and depth multipliers are there for a reason, 1.0-1.0 kits don't make the grade, 1.0 (10') depth gets you no where if the judge is a decent judge, and the same for 1.0 quality, you must get the good or decent quality and depth multipliers to be a competitive in the major flys.
Scott
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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PR_rollers
1176 posts
Jun 08, 2008
3:55 PM
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Scott good post ..I recommend a flea collar for your Lab,,(":")
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Ralph
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katyroller
228 posts
Jun 08, 2008
4:02 PM
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Scott, Good post! This type of post I can read and remain open minded enough to think over what you have to say and maybe learn something.
I recommend a flea collar for your Lab......Ralph, Your killing me brother!
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smoke747
1196 posts
Jun 09, 2008
12:57 AM
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Laron, there is no need to quit. Most of the guys that fly individual said they were interested in that one spinner and if they got it they accomplished their goal. Arnold even said this. This is not an attack on you guys, I'm just going by what you've said.
why quit? why not just prove us wrong. I know your birds spin because I've seen other people fly them. Other than Arnold, I have yet to see any of you guys fly even in an individual fly. It's like a secret cult. We can here about it but cannot see it. But we will see in the QSDC INVITATIONAL.
smoke747
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Keith London
ICRC
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elopez
1462 posts
Jun 09, 2008
1:02 AM
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Sooo is the fly still going to happen?
Scott, Keith and Abel vs. ???
Individual 30 point rule.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
http://lopezloft22.bravehost.com/
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smoke747
1197 posts
Jun 09, 2008
1:17 AM
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coyotee, I don't know when or if i'll ever get that kit but that wont stop me from striving for it. I was close last year but thos are gone or in the loft breeding. the next time i get close, I'll make sure I call you. Come check me out sometimes so you can see what I am doing. come over a few times to get a good look. Most are young but doing pretty good.
Laron you are welcome also, you got the wrong message from my post. these are just opinions.
smoke747
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Keith London
ICRC
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COYOTE33
126 posts
Jun 09, 2008
6:32 AM
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Thanks for the invite keith, im there! I just finish talking to Laron we're going to get him to.
coyote
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