CVRC
77 posts
Jun 25, 2008
7:30 AM
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That was a good written paper by Pensom. thanxs for the post Marcus
Cristian Castro
CM Loft
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PR_rollers
1298 posts
Jun 25, 2008
8:19 AM
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A good bird will answer to any method of feeding so long as the quantity is regulated.
So true are these words. funny how times has change now some of us just feed our kits Milo and Wheat.
Good Post.
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Ralph
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DeepSpinLofts
896 posts
Jun 25, 2008
9:52 AM
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You are welcome Cristian...
I was mixing some grains earlier this morning in order to make a highly nutritious feed (formulas) for my kit birds, stock birds and breeders.
GRAINS FOR DEEP SPIN LOFTS FORMULAS:
1) Millet*
2) Wheat*
3) Red Milo*
4) Flax Seed
5) White Rice*
6) Green Peas*
7) Austrian Peas
8) Powdered Health-Grit
9) Red Lentils (the small ones)*
10) Popcorn (whole small-variety)
NOTE: The pigeon formula* above gets my High Rollers at Deep Spin Lofts performing with high velocity. I feed it to them twice a week.... then it's a 50/50 yo-yo mix.
Marcus
deepspinners@usa.com
MEMO: We must cultivate our diverse friendships like a landscaper cultivates a garden.
Last Edited by on Jun 25, 2008 9:52 AM
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RUDY..ZUPPPPP
1800 posts
Jun 25, 2008
10:17 AM
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Very good article deepspin...
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RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
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DeepSpinLofts
897 posts
Jun 25, 2008
10:28 AM
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Big Rudy wasssusp....
How are the birds doing?
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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Rocky Lofts
95 posts
Sep 08, 2009
1:58 AM
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hi guys, i just come across this tread. and thought, it mite be of help with feeding our kit birds.
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Cheers, Rocky
"Rocky Lofts"
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Windjammer Loft
934 posts
Sep 08, 2009
5:49 AM
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I for one have been struggling with this "FEED" thing for too long now. Thanks to you, Marcus, I think I just might have it solved. Thanks again Marcus. I owe you....lol
Fly High and Roll On
Paul
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DeepSpinLofts
1568 posts
Sep 08, 2009
8:07 AM
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Paul.... you have to switch the feed up on your birds from time to time. Working with 5 or 6 different seeds (on a moderate rotation) will get them active if you feed very small doses of the larger grains.
For flyers.... I like a Wheat/Milo/Red Lentils/Canary Seed mixture with split Green Peas and Popcorn.
Peas loosen up the roll on stiff birds.
NOTE: We pull the popcorn from the feed mixture every other day after getting the birds to a decent flying height.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
Last Edited by on Sep 10, 2009 1:07 PM
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fhtfire
2078 posts
Sep 08, 2009
8:28 AM
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Thanks for the article...good post..I agree so much how things have changed over the years......When I first started I would get so confused on the feeding...the main was keeping birds on straight wheat all the time....that went against everything I was ever taught ....to keep animals on one source and not a very good one...I could never figure out why fliers that have birds that are for PERFORMANCE...and then starve them down...in any aspect of a animal or human for that matter....a good diet is the key to success.....Anthing that performs uses LOTS of energy....and you need a good mix for the energy...I would think that if some would use mix more as a tool..the quality of the birs will go up and the endurance will too....just my thoughts....
rock and ROLL
Paul
The most important thing....Breeding for two things CANT be done....its performance or nothing...
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donnie james
706 posts
Sep 08, 2009
2:30 PM
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hay marcus very good article you posted by mr pensom you will do your home work on things..............donny james
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toronto15
279 posts
Sep 08, 2009
4:19 PM
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Thanks Marcus for posting this article and thanks Rocky for bumping it up. Could someone explain the sentence,"A good bird will answer to any method of feeding so long as the quantity is regulated".Does this mean less or greater amounts on certain days?Thanks.Glen.
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fhtfire
2080 posts
Sep 08, 2009
4:34 PM
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Glen...that is exactly what it means..just change how much....Joe urbon feeds his birds mix all the time and I have seen some good ass roll at his place...
rock and ROLL
Paul
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toronto15
280 posts
Sep 08, 2009
4:46 PM
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Thanks Paul. Mr Pensoms mixture is very similar too a racing mixture. I,m gonna try to keep things simple.Glen.
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JEFF WILSON
29 posts
Sep 08, 2009
6:12 PM
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good post marcus.makes a guy stop and think maybe we are all fighting this feed thing to hard.like penson says maybe it's all in the stock we have they have or they don't.
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TheGame
614 posts
Sep 08, 2009
7:39 PM
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Pensom mentions corn in the article. I have always been told corn is not good for rollers. So can someone tell me what the deal is??
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winwardrollers
304 posts
Sep 09, 2009
8:36 AM
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TheGame
The corn question is one of the questions that I had... He may have wrote the article during the winter months...corn would be good for colder weather..but most of use fly in warmer weather.
He doesn't say how much corn he is using for sure but when you read the article it sounds like 75% of the mix..Just not enough details in Paragraph Four..it lead to more confusion than good.
Bwinward
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macsrollers
186 posts
Sep 09, 2009
9:36 PM
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I read somewhere once that corn is a term used in the past to refer to milo. There is no mention of milo in the article, so maybe that is what is being refered to. But at the same time it is described as small yellow corn so unless that is an analogy to white milo maybe he is actually referring to corn. I agree to some extent on the type of feed isn't as important as being consistent in what and how you feed. But I have to disagree that nothing makes them fly higher or lower as I know for a fact that changes in types of feed I use- whether a high protein mix, low protien mix, or straight wheat or milo- has a direct influence on how my birds fly. Can't take everything written as gospel, but Mr. Pensom was a man ahead of his time in how he expressed and shared his knowledge on paper. Enjoy your next fly! Don M. LVRC
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DeepSpinLofts
1570 posts
Sep 10, 2009
1:12 PM
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Don M..., you make an interesting point in regards to nothing will make kit birds fly higher or lower.
Hmm...
Is this your reference to just feeding?
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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macsrollers
190 posts
Sep 10, 2009
9:43 PM
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Brian is right. I was referring to that line in the article. Marcus shares great articles and seems to love to study the history and all aspects of rollers. Great way to gain knowledge and actually reading and studying in that manner is becoming a lost art in today's world of high tech. and convenience on the internet. I commend Marcus for that and thank him for sharing that knowledge. With that said, I think he and I have probably read some of the same old history that legends such as Mr. Pensom share. These legends didn't have the luxury of feed resources that we have. They didn't have so many different blends and types of feed at their finger tips. In fact, during the depression and other times of recession I have read that they fed their birds any thing that was available such as dried bread an even scraps such as potato peels. I think that is what Mr. Pensom is talking about regarding rollers will respond and perform the same with just about any type of feeding. So I believe we need to keep the conditions and feed availability in proper perspective when we read his great articles. Then we need to put his knowledge in perspective with today's conditions and the luxury of having all these different individual grains and feed blends at our convenience. Enjoy your next fly! Don M. LVRC
Last Edited by on Sep 10, 2009 9:44 PM
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winwardrollers
309 posts
Sep 11, 2009
7:14 AM
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Don
The article was published in 1966...depression and recession should not have been a factor.....You do have a good point about avalibiltiy of feed..some guys now days can not get the grains they want, so they make do with what they can get their hand on.
Brad Winward
Last Edited by on Sep 11, 2009 7:18 AM
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J_Star
2164 posts
Sep 11, 2009
7:31 AM
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Pensom said “I have found that I get the same results no matter what I feed. The biggest problem so far as feeding goes is to find a solution which gives a consistent result of the highest order.”
That is the problem. You can feed them what you want but to get consistent results is another story. Regulated feed with certain grains and continued monitoring and adjustments will guarantee consistent results for a period of time.
Pesom said “I will say that various grains will regulate the speed of flight but nothing will make them fly higher or lower.”
I disagree with this statement as I know from experience that I can regulate the birds flying higher or lower with certain grains. For several years my birds used to sky out on me and started to think it is the strain and the family of birds. Then I regulated certain grains and I have not had any skying out problems in two years.
Then he goes on to say “Another aid to losing birds is to give extra seeds such as rape, canary seed, linseed, and millet.” Doesn’t this statement contradict “I will say that various grains will regulate the speed of flight but nothing will make them fly higher or lower.”...I don't think you will lose birds because they are flying fast but you sure will lose them when they sky out.
Something to think about…
Jay
Last Edited by on Sep 11, 2009 7:39 AM
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winwardrollers
310 posts
Sep 12, 2009
1:02 PM
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Jay
You make much more sense than the article...no doubt
Brad
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DeepSpinLofts
1571 posts
Sep 13, 2009
10:48 AM
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I've been trying a new feed mixture bought at George's Feed & Pet in Suisun City, California. George mixes it himself from scratch and my birds appear to do fairly well after consuming it.
GEORGES 12% PIGEON MIX:
Ingredients: R/C Milo, Popcorn, R/C Wheat, Trapper Peas, Maple Peas, Austrian Peas, Safflower and R/C Barley.
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS:
Crude Protein, not less than.....12.00%
Crude Fat, not less than..........2.50%
Crude Fiber, not less than......4.25%
Ash, not more than...............2.25%
Moisture, not more than......10.00%
NOTE: A healthy family of seed eating birds will often be one that consumes a wide variety of grains & legumes.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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macsrollers
193 posts
Sep 13, 2009
9:14 PM
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Yes Brian. The article isn't as old as the depression and some of the poorer times in history, but the readings I mentioned did refer to the depression and tough times in the history of England where flyers scrounged what ever they could to keep their birds alive. I just feel that people at times are critical of Pensom's writings and base that criticism on today's world of conveniences and information at our finger tips, when his knowledge was gained and shared in much more advers conditions. Good points brought up J Star. Best of luck and fun to everyone in the Fall Fly. Don M. LVRC
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J_Star
2176 posts
Sep 14, 2009
8:48 AM
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Marcus, If he mixes it himself, where does he come up with the guaranteed analysis!! This mix is good for youngsters under the age of 6 months. With three different kind of peas, saflower and popcorn for a prelongated time will cause you flight issues.
Pigeons in general are hardy and they can live on anything. You will be surprised of their hardiness.
Jay
Last Edited by on Sep 14, 2009 8:49 AM
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pigeon pete
370 posts
Sep 14, 2009
10:56 AM
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Jay,
saying "doesn't the article contradict" is like saying "didn't Van Gough paint"? lol
Mr Pensom always contradicts himself. I'm not saying he wasn't a great roller guy and a great promoter of the breed, but it may be that he had difficulty expressing what he meant in a cohesive way.
When I read an article that in the first paragraph states - quote --"I have found that I get the same results no matter what I feed". unquote
and then goes on to explain what different results he gets from all the different grains, well you just have to ignore what doesn't suit you, or just laugh.
It would be a good exercise in comprehension to read one of Bills articles and see who finds the most contradictions. e,g "nothing will make them fly higher" then-- malting barley is a good grain for steady high long flying. etc I'm sure all the guys who say oh what a wonderful article either cannot have read it properly or they are better at filtering out inconsistancies than I am.
I must re-emphasise that Bill's knowledge was second to none, but I could only read 1/4 of it without it really anoying me,lol
i feel we should be analytical and crtitical of all knowledge put before us, or we become like the people who believe in anything, if anyone tells them it is the word of God. No offence meant to religous types on the forum, it just seemed like a parrallel, to some Bill is God so it must make sense, it's just me who is too stupid to understand.
In any walk of life we need to maintain our critical faculties or we become servile followers or fanatics.
I bought Bills book when I started out in rollers and read it and read it and re-read it until the cover was worn away, I could quote passages from it without reference to it, but I couldn't brainwash myself, to the point where it made a lot of sence. I still found it hard to gloss over the inconsistances and contradictions, but I do know from the forums that many fanciers find the book very useful.
maybe it's just me, someone put one of Ken Easleys articles on an English forum just this week. I respect Ken and have had online conversations with him in the past on another forum, so I know he is a good comitted and knowledgable fancier.
The article is about establishing a strain of quality rollers.
I read the first paragraph and just like Bill article that's as far as I could read, because it starts out by saying you need to start with 6 or 8 exceptional performers. That made the rest of the piece unreadable for me, well I mean I've only bred a half dozen of those at most in 25 years. How many estabished flyers have 6 or 8 exceptional birds at one time never mind a new starter. Once you read something that doesn't make sense and you start to say, well maybe he meant this or he really meant that, then you are just making it up. Eiter that or your mind keeps saying, yes but where ther hell from!! lol
I realise I sound a right grump, but I am getting old you know,lol
Pete.
Last Edited by on Sep 14, 2009 10:59 AM
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J_Star
2178 posts
Sep 14, 2009
11:41 AM
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Pete, we are thinking alike on both men’s articles. I am an Analytical minded professional who makes ton of money at it. I critique everything I read and if it is not making convincing sense, then it is just entertainment for me. However, I respect both men, but I disagree with some of their writings.
Jay
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winwardrollers
311 posts
Sep 14, 2009
2:18 PM
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Yes...dead on Pete..Im not going to call you grumpy.. just right on with your post.
Bwinward
Last Edited by on Sep 14, 2009 2:28 PM
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Squabby*32
58 posts
Sep 15, 2009
12:36 AM
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Georges 12% works for me too. It seems the birds love it as they continuously work for me.
Pigeon Power
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DJJeffman Spinners
ATAPWGIYAHTLY
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DeepSpinLofts
1572 posts
Sep 15, 2009
5:19 PM
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Hey Squabby... have you ever tried out George's roller mix?
I think George sells a roller mix too. Suppose to be a good feed mixture for young birds.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
Last Edited by on Sep 15, 2009 5:22 PM
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