155
573 posts
Jun 27, 2008
1:17 PM
|
1. Buy several unrelated birds and make your own family.
2. Buy birds supposedly down out of a famous bird that has been dead for many, many years.
3. Never visit any other lofts to observe their birds.
4. Never check competition records to see who is doing it right.
5. Buy a very good bird to put into your family to improve your birds.
6. Never keep a free bird. All free birds are junk.
7. Believe every thing on a pedigree.
8. Buy only from those who brag how good their birds are. The better
they are with the pen the better the birds. Goes hand in hand.
9. Expect something for nothing.
10. Buy only from those who have to advertise to sell their birds.
Better yet only buy from those who sell a lot of birds.
11. Only big bucks will get you good birds.
12. Bad mouth the previous owner behind his back, if the birds don't
work out for you. Never, never ask him for help.
13. This is your unlucky number.
14. Never ask the previous owner how to fly and feed them.
15. The less time you put into your birds the better, they will be.
They thrive on green water, a wet and dirty loft and soiled feed.
16. If you do get good birds, don't tell him, keep it a secret. You
will never need any more from him.
by richard millers
----------
EVILLOFT'S
|
nicksiders
2854 posts
Jun 27, 2008
2:10 PM
|
I enjoyed the post.
----------
Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
|
mcroller
149 posts
Jun 27, 2008
2:11 PM
|
sounds about right to me.
jimmi
|
nicksiders
2856 posts
Jun 27, 2008
2:18 PM
|
Jose,
I noticed you signed that post "Richard Miller". Was it quoted from Richard Miller, who is a Master Flyer?
----------
Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
|
155
574 posts
Jun 27, 2008
2:24 PM
|
yea it was by richard miller..
----------
EVILLOFT'S
|
nicksiders
2858 posts
Jun 27, 2008
2:28 PM
|
Good post, Jose....good post.
----------
Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
|
155
575 posts
Jun 27, 2008
2:31 PM
|
I Think this will help new rollers guy like me..this is good info
----------
EVILLOFT'S
|
quickspin
722 posts
Jun 27, 2008
2:33 PM
|
#5 and #6
The best birds are giving for free some times.
You can add a better bird to improve your birds if you know what you need.
|
George R.
829 posts
Jun 27, 2008
2:36 PM
|
good post but you forgot one ....
get Birds from someone who always has a excuse as to why they dont Fly in any competetions...
unless you just want pigeons to feed in your back yard just like feeding pigeons at a Park Bench
Last Edited by on Jun 27, 2008 9:32 PM
|
PR_rollers
1322 posts
Jun 27, 2008
4:43 PM
|
Except for number #6 Never keep a free bird. All free birds are junk.there are some guys here who gave away some nice birds to help out a newbie or a friend.
----------
Ralph
|
kopetsa
1025 posts
Jun 27, 2008
4:49 PM
|
I somewhat disagree with 1 and 5.. And I completely disagree with 6 and 11..
----------
Andrew
|
Hector Coya
187 posts
Jun 27, 2008
5:02 PM
|
My best bird was given to me by my old frield Bob Scott, (it wasnt Junk)
|
Sourland
112 posts
Jun 27, 2008
5:44 PM
|
I think # 6 was "tongue in cheek"-meant facetiously and not to be taken literally.
Geo.
|
Mark_Wilson
3 posts
Jun 27, 2008
5:55 PM
|
Well i don"t know about all the rest but the free birds being junk is bull.
|
DeepSpinLofts
912 posts
Jun 27, 2008
5:59 PM
|
re: HOW TO NOT SUCCEED IN THE PIGEON HOBBY
Hmm.... interesting
The most important one has been forgotten.
Which is:
Breed for color. The prettier your birds are to the eye the better off you will be.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
|
155
576 posts
Jun 27, 2008
6:00 PM
|
LOL I new that this post that I posted was ster up things that's what I like what away to start the weekend...LOL just remember folks it wasnt writen by me I just happen to bump into it....But it was writen by RICHARD MILLER...
----------
EVILLOFT'S
Last Edited by on Jun 27, 2008 6:06 PM
|
nicksiders
2860 posts
Jun 27, 2008
7:48 PM
|
Keep in mind he is saying "how not to succeed".
----------
Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
|
Ballrollers
1333 posts
Jun 27, 2008
8:36 PM
|
I just gotta add another, guys, on How Not to Succeed:
"Never breed or fly color birds because they are not the real deal."
Sorry.....I just had to do it! LOL!
Cliff
|
spanky
506 posts
Jun 27, 2008
8:46 PM
|
MY LUCKY # IS 13
AND SOME OF MY GOOD BIRDS WERE A GIFT.
SPANKY
SGVS
|
kopetsa
1028 posts
Jun 27, 2008
9:12 PM
|
I 100% disagree Cliff.. lol
And 155, where is this Richard Miller from?? lol
----------
Andrew
Last Edited by on Jun 27, 2008 9:13 PM
|
nicksiders
2863 posts
Jun 27, 2008
9:19 PM
|
Ohio
People like Richard Miller are those people you should get to know as much about them as you can. They are the flyers.
Tim Decker
Jerry Higgins
Rick Mee
Don Ouellette
Jay Starly
Randy Gibson
Monty Neibel
Kevin McCray
Guil Rand
George Mason
Walter Teal
Bob Westfall
Heine Bijker
Ken Easley
Ken Billings
Alex Hamilton
Clay Hoyle
These are your NBRC Master Flyers. This list will grow, probably this year even.
----------
Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
Last Edited by on Jun 27, 2008 9:29 PM
|
155
577 posts
Jun 28, 2008
10:10 AM
|
LOLLLLLLLL
----------
EVILLOFT'S
|
Hector Coya
189 posts
Jun 28, 2008
11:08 AM
|
Hey Nick'
Have you been to Randy Gibson's house,he flys andilusians and olple's
Hector Coya-SGVS
|
Scott
829 posts
Jun 28, 2008
11:14 AM
|
That is far from all he flys Hector, like I said ,they can't do it without the real deal to hold them up.
Also, when he judged the state fly here he told me that he was going to dump much of that because it was holding him back, it is that wasted perch space thing that I talk about.
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jun 28, 2008 11:17 AM
|
Hector Coya
190 posts
Jun 28, 2008
11:44 AM
|
Ive seen those birds roll,but if thats what he said ok.Hector Coya-SGVS
|
Scott
830 posts
Jun 28, 2008
11:58 AM
|
Hector, a lot of color birds roll, but they also need the charactor to handle it day in and day out and not fall apart, and they also need to reproduce such in decent percentages, from there they must stand the test of time.
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jun 28, 2008 12:06 PM
|
Scott
831 posts
Jun 28, 2008
12:10 PM
|
Nick, not all on that list got on there by the same criteria, a few on there are why club flys and state flys are no longer allowed as the integrity of the master flyer program was on it's way to becoming meaningless.
I might add that Joe Emberton is also supposed to be on that list
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jun 28, 2008 12:11 PM
|
Ty Coleman
416 posts
Jun 28, 2008
12:30 PM
|
Hector, a lot of color birds roll, but they also need the charactor to handle it day in and day out and not fall apart, and they also need to reproduce such in decent percentages, from there they must stand the test of time.
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
Scott, how many years are you talking about before you give a colord family credit?
----------
Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
Last Edited by on Jun 28, 2008 12:31 PM
|
Hector Coya
191 posts
Jun 28, 2008
12:36 PM
|
Ive got an ople from the randy Gibson line,and let me tell you i can mate it to a Homer and get roll,hes a 98 and has produced real good with every hen hes been on and,still produces some of the fastes deepest and colofull rollers ive seen.
Hector Coya-SGVS
|
Ty Coleman
417 posts
Jun 28, 2008
1:01 PM
|
Hector lol your killing me a homer and get spin lol.Ive been flying three kits of Turners so far. Alot at my stage of the game i think will be stock worthy H style with the hole at 20 - 40 foot a but load of 10-15 foot birds and a few that just dont have the style i desire. My squeks that ive raised and just put up are starting to come in already and at flying close to 75 birds i have not had the first stiff.
----------
Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
|
Hector Coya
192 posts
Jun 28, 2008
1:19 PM
|
TY
i hope you know i was kidding about the Homer,
Hector Coya
|
nicksiders
2866 posts
Jun 28, 2008
4:15 PM
|
Scott,
I didn't know they used club fly results....that is odd and disappointing. How long ago did they stop using club results?
----------
Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
|
Ty Coleman
418 posts
Jun 28, 2008
4:45 PM
|
I new you were kidding but it was still funny as hell.
----------
Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
|
Scott
832 posts
Jun 28, 2008
4:58 PM
|
Nick, around 2000 they made the change, what was going on is they were flying in several clubs and then getting points for each club.
I think that the same fly was used for more than one club, a couple in that list may have only qualified once or twice in a major fly but made master flyer in 4-5 years flying.
It was a loop hole that was closed,some coming up for master flyer may still use club flys if submited prior to 2000.
Another loophole that is still open is the 11 bird fly, the points for the top ten are the same for both the 11 bird and the 20 bird even though the 11 bird finals only has 15-16 flyers in it.
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jun 28, 2008 5:26 PM
|
elopez
1527 posts
Jun 28, 2008
5:05 PM
|
Don't think it should be the same for the 11 bird and the 20 bird comp. Much more competition in the 20 bird fly.
How many kits does a region have to enter to qualify for a 11 bird comp? I would like to enter in this.
----------
Efren Lopez
SGVS
http://lopezloft22.bravehost.com/
Last Edited by on Jun 28, 2008 5:06 PM
|
Scott
833 posts
Jun 28, 2008
5:25 PM
|
Efren, the same , 10 kits per qualifier, wasn't always like that though,at one time there wasn't any min to qualify for the 11 bird if I remeber right, it was a struggle to get flyers for it, it is a little better now because 20 bird flyers figured out that they could pull the best out of thier 20 bits to fly it, where you can't use the same birds for your 2nd 20 bird kit, plus master flyer point are easier to attain.
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
|
classicpony
689 posts
Jun 29, 2008
9:43 AM
|
quite entertaining....
Jim
|
Ballrollers
1334 posts
Jun 29, 2008
7:09 PM
|
Scott,
On the Master flyer subject. You touched on the fact that, in the beginning, not all master flyer points were equal. Early on, Master Flyer points were awarded to local club flys, state flys, invitational flys; some used the 1-2-3 rules some did not. There were some cases where a region would fly one fly but call it two names. A few regions called their WC regional their state fly. Trying to determine master flyer points was a guessing game. There was also the question, did some double dip and get points for two flys when only one was flown? That is in the past, but here is my point: We have a few regions formed that only getFlyer and never placing well in a finals fly, is not the way to become a Master Flyer IMHO! Scott, how close to 750 are you now? You fly in a highly competative region and you have scored well numberous times in the last several years in the finals. A top 10 finish in the WC should move you up in the standings. I am pulling for you, buddy.
Cliff
|
Ballrollers
1335 posts
Jun 29, 2008
7:16 PM
|
Oh, Scott, I almost forgot....I know of three or four on that list of Master Flyers that flew birds down from families that contained rare factors. Gibson, Hamilton, Hoyle and I think I remember Westfall had sosme opals but I can't be sure. Alex has reduced & indigo, as does Clay, and Randy. I'm not sure what else Randy has. I'm not saying they fly exclusively color birds,; just that they don't let prejudice against birds of color get in the way of putting together winning kits.
Cliff
|
Ballrollers
1336 posts
Jun 29, 2008
7:21 PM
|
Scott,
You said, speaking of 11-bird competitions, "...plus master flyer point are easier to attain."
I believe that is a fallacy. I have competed with 11-bird kits and 20-bird kits and have earned more points with my 20-bird comp teams than the 11-bird teams. 11-bird competitiors are still competing with the best 11-bird kits in the nation.
Cliff
|
Ballrollers
1337 posts
Jun 29, 2008
7:27 PM
|
Scott,
There you go again, puting out that nonsense about those nasty ol' color birds. Aren't they called "RARE" colors? That should clue you in.. they are often times seldom seen and seldom recognized. I put a pair together, a father X daughter pair, two Qualmonds. SO far, I got 2 birds that look like white-ish red grizzles and one recessive red. And NO QUALMONDS.....yet! SO, since you can't identify them, and since they don't have white bars, I bet you would say they aren't color birds? The real deal can be found in "FAMILIES" that can produce, NOT ONLY GOOD SPINNING TRUE BIRMINGHAM ROLLERS but also TRUE BIRMINGHAM ROLLERS of rare colors. I can put two identifiable rare factor Birmingham Rollers together and they might not breed one picture-book rare factored bird. They could carry a rare factor and the rare factor could be poorly expressed to the point, it would pass for a non rare factored bird.We should be talking about families of Birmingham Rollers that can express some rare factors, not individual birds. Just because you can't see a rare factor does not change the fact it may be or may carry a rare factor.... AND that is why you "SEE" so few "RARE colored " birds. But they are there, spinning, just like any other roller that can earn the title of a Birmingham Roller. Maybe you could benifit from a visit to the eye doctor? Maybe look at something other, than through your "ROSE COLORED" glasses, you now see through. Lets say, I bred a blue check self hen, off a known color bred bird like an Indigo or Andalusian . And let's say I put her on a blue check self cock off another known rare color pair. And lets say all their young are only blue checks. And let's say a few are really nice 20-30 foot "H" type , high velocity , spinners. And let's say after a few years all I have in my loft are Blue check self birds. Are they now "NOT" color birds? SO, all that matters to you ... is if YOU can identify the rare color? If you can't identify it, and it performs to standard, you would not have anything "NEGATIVE" to say.... would you? Hmmmmm.
Cliff
|
nicksiders
2872 posts
Jun 30, 2008
2:34 PM
|
Aubrey Thibodeaux should be getting close to the required 750....I guess
----------
Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
|
Scott
849 posts
Jun 30, 2008
4:18 PM
|
(That is in the past, but here is my point: We have a few regions formed that only getFlyer and never placing well in a finals fly, is not the way to become a Master Flyer IMHO!)
Cliff , the problem is how many times do you change the criteria , if you eliminated the regional master flyer points how many that are in there now would be master flyers ? maybe one , other than the 11 bird finalists being awarded the same points as the 20 bird finalists where there is twice the competition the loop holes are shut.
Now if you want to start the master flyer program completly over than I would say go for it, but that aint happening.
(Scott, how close to 750 are you now? You fly in a highly competative region and you have scored well numberous times in the last several years in the finals. A top 10 finish in the WC should move you up in the standings. I am pulling for you, buddy.
Cliff )
Cliff, I have 680 with this years W/C pre-lem, but as you know there is a mess
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
|
Ty Coleman
426 posts
Jun 30, 2008
5:29 PM
|
Sxott,Just because there is more comp in the twenty bird would it be fare to the flyers that cant field a twenty and only a 11 for varius reasons not to get points ? Or just dont want to fly a 20 bird, It is still a comp. Just not you bag.
----------
Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
|
Ballrollers
1338 posts
Jun 30, 2008
7:02 PM
|
Scott,
I guess, I mis-spoke. Regional points are fine, but if all a regional winner does is win his region, a region that is not competitive, and never finishes in the top ten in the finals... Is that flyer worthy of the title Master Flyer? In this case, we might consider "RAISING THE BAR" to insist that a finals fly or two, place in the top ten ALSO. I am not taking anything away from a flyer that wins in a small non-competitive region. I am saying he must also show he is competitive against the best.
Cliff
|
Scott
853 posts
Jun 30, 2008
7:19 PM
|
Cliff, I understand what you are saying , but trying to micro manage it isn't going to be feasable, plus it will end up will each flyer making it in under different criterias.
Besides it would take forever to make it in on just regional flys I would think,most don't have that kind of holding power.
Use mine as an example, it has taken me 10-11 years, and that is with many points made in the finals flys, and I'm still only at 680.
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
|
4KORNER
44 posts
Jun 30, 2008
8:02 PM
|
HEY GEORGE I LIKE THE ADDITION HERE IS ONE JOIN A LOCAL CLUB WHO NEVER HAS MEETINGS AND THE CLUB SCORES REMAIN UNDER A 100 JOIN A CLUB WITH 17 MEMBERS AND ONLY 5 PEOPLE FLY AND ALL HAVE DIFFERENT FAMILES OF BIRDS. BELIEVE YOU CAN REALLY IMPROVE A CLUB BY NEVER SHARING AND TRADING WITH OTHER CLUB MEMBERS
AND I DO AGREE WITH IT WHEN IT STATES ALL FREE BIRDS ARE JUNK NO ONE IS GONNA THE BEST FOR FREE WHAT WILL THEY HAVE LEFT.......
|
4KORNER
45 posts
Jun 30, 2008
8:14 PM
|
JUST BECAUSE YOU GET A FREE BIRD AND IT ROLLS THE BREEDER HAS EITHER BRED AS MANY AS HE WANTS AND HAS SOME TO GIVE YOU BUT IF THE BREEDER IS NOT A COMPETITOR AND HAS NEVER WON ANYTHING HOW DO YOU JUDGE JUNK
NEVER FOLLOW THE MODERN ROLLER PIGEON TREND EVERYONE CROSSING OUT OTHER BREEDERS BIRDS TO MAKE THEIR OWN FAMILY BASED ON THE ROLL OF THE BIRD OR COLOR WAIT UNTIL YOU NEED TO CROSS BIRDS INTO YOUR FAMILY
HOW NOT TO SUCCEED:
BUY ALL YOUR BIRDS FROM SHOWS AND EVERYONE YOU WHO HAS ROLLERS AND MATE UM TOGETHER YOU WILL WIN THE WORLD CUP IN ABOUT 2 YEARS
Last Edited by on Jun 30, 2008 8:34 PM
|
Ballrollers
1339 posts
Jul 02, 2008
9:19 AM
|
Scott,
Time will tell whether Master Flyers, become a group that welcomes, strictly, regional winners. Any thoughts on this question? I can understand the necessity to base the "FIRST" qualifier on 10 or 15 "kits paid" but so often, now, the second qualifier is based on ghost kits. Is there any support to base the second or third qualifier on "KITS FLOWN"? As the NBRC national fly director, I am starting to see things in a little different light, some of these "things" seem like we are moving in the wrong direction and away from a competition based roller club. Do you understand what I am trying to say? Some of this stuff just seems wrong to me.
Cliff
|
Scott
856 posts
Jul 02, 2008
12:30 PM
|
Scott,
Time will tell whether Master Flyers, become a group that welcomes, strictly, regional winners. Any thoughts on this question?
CLIFF, YOU MIGHT HAVE ONLY ONE OR TWO IN THERE LEGIT IF ONLY MAJOR FLYS WERE COUNTED.
PLUS AS IT IS 2/3RDS WOULDN'T BE IN THERE UNDER THE CURRENT GUIDELINES AS IT IS,TO BOOT BOTH FLYS ARE MORE COMPETITIVE THAN EVER.
WHAT I AM GETTING AT IS EVERYTIME THAT LINE IN THE SAND IS MOVED YOU HAVE PEOPLE IN THERE THAT GOT THERE UNDER HARDER AND HARDER GUIDELINES THAN THE GUYS BEFORE THEM.
PLUS YOU CAN'T CHANGE IT IN MID STREAM, YOU CAN'T TAKE AWAY POINTS ALREADY GIVEN,SAME AS SOME MASTER FLYER POINTS STILL HAVE CLUB FLYS ECT. COUNTED IN AS THEY HAD RECEIVED THEM PRIOR TO THE CUT OFF DATE.
AS FOR JUST REGIONAL WINNERS THAT RACK UP THE POINTS, LIKE I SAID THAT IS DIFFICULT AND WILL TAKE A VERY LONG TIME,AND AGAIN THE FINALS ARE MUCH MORE COMPETITIVE THAN THE EARLIER YEARS ,BESIDES YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT THEM WITHOUT SCREWING THE GUYS THAT DO WELL IN BOTH.
THERE ARE PLENTY OF THINGS BEING A LITTLE OFF KILTER,ONE OF WHICH IS THE FINALS POINTS FOR THE 11 BIRD VRSES THE 20 BIRD WHERE THERE IS TWICE THE COMPETITION,GUYS GETTING IN UNDER FAR LESS COMPETION IN THE EARLY YEARS, CLUB FLYS USED , INTERNATIONAL FLY USED,STATE FLYS USED ECT. ECT. ECT. THE POINT BEING IS THAT SOME GUYS RACKING UP REGIONAL POINTS IS A PRETTY SMALL ISSUE COMPARED TO THE PAST.
MY THOUGHT IS LEAVE IT ALONE, OR SCRAP THE WHOLE SHABANG INCLUDING WHO IS IN THERE NOW AND USE WHATEVER NEW GUIDELINES ARE PLACED AND PRORATE EVERYBODY,OF COARSE WE KNOW THAT ISN'T HAPPENING.
I can understand the necessity to base the "FIRST" qualifier on 10 or 15 "kits paid" but so often, now, the second qualifier is based on ghost kits. Is there any support to base the second or third qualifier on "KITS FLOWN"? As the NBRC national fly director, I am starting to see things in a little different light, some of these "things" seem like we are moving in the wrong direction and away from a competition based roller club. Do you understand what I am trying to say? Some of this stuff just seems wrong to me.
Cliff
CLIFF ALL OF THIS WAS ADDRESSED FOR BOTH FLYS BEFORE YOU WERE AROUND,IT IS NOTHING NEW.
ONE IS EXTRA REVENUE THAT IT BRINGS IN WHICH IS NEEDED TO MAKE THESE FLYS HAPPEN.
THE OTHER IS WITHOUT SOME REGIONS BEING ABLE TO PAY FOR TWO KITS TO MAKE A QUALIFER THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO MEET THE MIN REQUIREMENT, WHICH MEANS THAT THEY WOULDN'T HAVE A REGION.
IF 8 GUYS PAY FOR TWO KITS THAT IS THE MIN FOR ONE QUALIFIER(W/C), SO TO KEEP IN EVEN STEVEN AND APPLES FOR APPLES THE REGIONS WITH 15 HAVE TO BE ALLOWED TO DO THE SAME ECT. ECT..
OR WE COULD JUST FORCE THE ISSUE AND THEN JUST GO THROUGH THE MOTIONS OF KICKING OUT SOME SQUEEKERS OR A CULL KIT AND CALL THEM A KIT FLOWN ALL THE WHILE WASTING EVERYBODYS TIME.
EITHER WAY IT WON'T CHANGE MUCH OTHER THAN THROWING A BURDEN ON THE REGIONS AND REGIONAL JUDGE.
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jul 02, 2008 1:27 PM
|