diamondrollers
276 posts
Jul 02, 2008
12:08 AM
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i feel that after breeding the originals birds you purchase and select your own birds to bred from off those pairs thats your family. I dont feel us always say that these are kgb, higgin, campell, or reed birds is a great idea in the sence that they aren't selecting the birds. One mistake from us can ruin a family of birds but yet we keep putting the other breeders name on them. What happens when we keep passing these birds around as so and so's birds but all they are is junk with a good breeders name on them and not your own is wrong. then you got people talking crap about a good breeders birds when he is not to blame because he didnt pick the breeders you did
sal
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CVRC
153 posts
Jul 02, 2008
1:26 AM
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U make a very good point Sal. This is going to be a great topic..
Cristian Castro
CM Loft
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bertie
315 posts
Jul 02, 2008
4:06 AM
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Well the way I look at it if you have KGB lines and never mix any other lines in that line, it will always be KGB line. KGB and Campbell have been very careful breeding these lines and you won't find any colored birds in this line at all. All blues and blue spread(blacks).
But your right as far as if your not picking the best preforming birds and breeding them back to the best preforming birds and weeding out the bad ones you can ruin the KGB line you have. But as far as ruining their names, hey they have all ready made a name for them selfs that's why their birds are wanted real bad all over the country and probably the world.
Bert
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ICEMAN710
391 posts
Jul 02, 2008
4:26 AM
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i agree with bertie. they are your family, but the bloodlines go back to the orgiinal family i.e. kgb, higgins, navarro etc...
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Gary
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ozrollerman
6 posts
Jul 02, 2008
4:59 AM
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i agree,when the first baby is born,thats the start of my family and i will keep the best until i have moved out the birds i started with even if it takes a few years..
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rtwilliams
131 posts
Jul 02, 2008
8:14 AM
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they are my birds from so and so line. Until I cross them, then they are my family. And I am glad those recipes were posted lol.
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RT Williams
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diamondrollers
277 posts
Jul 02, 2008
8:23 AM
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hey bert,
as far as ruining the the breeders name you must have mis under stood me. the breeders name is always leafted up for what he has done in the sport period but the birds can get a bad reputation as far as rolling down, or being stiff, bumping all the time ect ect. you might say no it doesnt happen but i have heard a lot of crap about peoples birds and 99.9% the guys never got the birds derictly of the original breeder but off a guy whop got them from a guy who got them from the originals.
sal
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PR_rollers
1347 posts
Jul 02, 2008
8:35 AM
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I think differently now I can't take someone hard work lets say 10 to 20 yrs and just because i just bred then now say its mine when i never put that amount of time in it as they did.now if what I will honestly say if they went into someone hands this is my selection now but its origin goes back to this breeder so and so.. now if he has a good reputation and its known I can't mess his name up .I be putting my name on the line as the one who mess his bloodline or made good with his bloodline.now once I put in my time I won't make a good name for myself I let you do that for me..
Ralph
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diamondrollers
278 posts
Jul 02, 2008
10:32 AM
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So Ralph
your saying if you got 5 pair of pure higgin birds from higgins and in 5 years you win the fall fly after selecting your stock the credit goes to higgins because he has 20 somthing years of working that family is wrong in my books he has nothing to do with what you are doing in your backyard i would give you all the credit for your win because you did your job in selecting your stock birds that created what you are flying in order to win a big fly . so your five years would mean nothing ?
sal
Last Edited by on Jul 02, 2008 2:02 PM
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rtwilliams
133 posts
Jul 02, 2008
12:08 PM
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I agree with Sal
He who puts the work now into them gets the credit for the work. That is not to say that he should not be great full for the work the previous breeder did. He might even continue to say my Birds are from his line.
If I put the work into them and succeed they are my birds.
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RT Williams
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diamondrollers
279 posts
Jul 02, 2008
2:01 PM
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williams,
its good to see some one agree.
sal
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Oldfart
725 posts
Jul 02, 2008
6:03 PM
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Hey All, I'm restarting after a long absence from rollers.
My stock birds and the young from them are and will be a continuation of the original line. I will use a side line of the original strain but breed from a different pair and their prodigy, for any eventual outcross's. Should they turn out to be outstanding, then I can only be gratefull for all the hard work and planning the breeder instilled into them. I can only judge them by the offspring they produce. After that any pairings I make beyond the original are on my head. Still great, wonderfull, but can I call them my own with no consideration for the original breeder?
Can I then rename them and claim all the credit? What if they are not so great? My fault or the breeders? Point? As I see it, the foundation like a house was solid but if I as the owner fail, I cannot blame the contractor but when someone exclaims how beautiful my home is I should at a minimum mention the builder.
JMHO, Thom
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PR_rollers
1349 posts
Jul 02, 2008
8:17 PM
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Sal if i put 5 yrs and i won the fall fly of cause that credit its mine .but whats 5 years compare to the guy who work the line 10 or 20 years. If you ask me what line they from i would say there are from so and so back then but this is what i made now. I would always give some credit to whom ever i got it from. This is just me...
Ralph
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Ralph
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Scott
864 posts
Jul 02, 2008
9:12 PM
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This is a fact, if you are breeding them they are your problem,it is very easy to screw them up in short order, the quikest way is pedigree breeding or just breeding due to the name behind them.
Just breeding birds doesn't make them a family either though,a family has to be built,and it aint happening in a few years.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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diamondrollers
280 posts
Jul 02, 2008
10:54 PM
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ralph,
i my self would say that there desendnets off so and so's birds but it would be my family off of that line of birds. if we always give more credit to so and so where does that leave us?
sal
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diamondrollers
281 posts
Jul 02, 2008
11:01 PM
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scott,
what's a few years? i feel that with a few selected birds that can produce and there off spring produce in 7-8 years you could have a family of birds off only does birds never needing a cross to make them better because you could branch out to cousin lines with in those selected birds.
sal
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Scott
866 posts
Jul 03, 2008
6:35 AM
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Sal, you will know when you do,no one has to tell you when it happens.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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