sippi
432 posts
Jul 30, 2008
6:32 PM
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Just thought I would post this so everyone here that participated can recieve thanks.
Sippi
List,
I can't get in touch with each and everyone of you who participated with either signing the petition or supporting the effort is some way during our push to get this issue before the membership for a vote.
We were successful and you only need to look in the mirror to see who to thank and pat on the back. We as members of the NBRC did come together much to the surprise of more than a few.
I feel it is important that all of you take a bow as you made it happen. Be sure to tell your friends who are not on this list, but who also participated, thank you.
The important part of this compromise, and all of life is a compromise, is that the vote will only be for flyers in the upcoming NBRC National Championship Fly. So make sure this is the year you compete as there will probably be a ballot on this issue in the bulletin no later than the issue after the fly.
We will have to stay focused on this issue, we will need to write a few articles in support and make phone calls to our friends to encourage them to vote. Encourage all, irregardless of their loyalties or feelings on this issue as this is for all of the flyers to determine.
Again, encourage everyone to fly and thus have a vote.
Gregg.
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nicksiders
3031 posts
Jul 30, 2008
6:57 PM
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Will the name change improve the event? Will the name change increase the number who compete in the event?
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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RO
165 posts
Jul 30, 2008
7:39 PM
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National Champ just sound's better then fall fly winner.A name change sometimes can rejuvenate things.I sure like it better than Fall fly winner,I rather be the National Champ..lol
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Ro
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George R.
942 posts
Jul 30, 2008
8:40 PM
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The important part of this compromise, and all of life is a compromise, is that the vote will only be for flyers in the upcoming NBRC National Championship Fly
Its called the NBRC Fall Fly Greg . You have not succeded to change the name yet ..
George
Last Edited by on Jul 31, 2008 2:48 PM
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Ballrollers
1387 posts
Jul 31, 2008
1:46 PM
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Nick,
I applaud your support of the members' right to vote and make the final decision as to what the name of the competition will be, as opposed to a handful of men on the EC. I know you feel strongly about the traditional name, Fall Fly, and a lesser man would have cast his vote to deny the members the right to vote in order to get the outcome he wanted.
George,
Maybe you can help us understand why so many of you voted to deny the right of the members to vote on this issue. Was it as simple as your own personal desires superceding the interest of the members, or was it something more complicated? I must say that I was very surprised to see you take that position considering the way that you seem to represent yourself on this list, for example, in support of the member flyers. You were not alone in that dynamic and I would like to better understand that apparent inconsistency.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Jul 31, 2008 2:06 PM
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George R.
945 posts
Jul 31, 2008
2:43 PM
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"I know you feel strongly about the traditional name, Fall Fly, and a lesser man would have cast his vote to deny the members the right to vote in order to get the outcome he wanted."
Cliff You got such a nice way of taking shots at people .
just to let you know theres a huge number of members that like the name N.B.R.C. Fall Fly and you just spit in there face by making a assinin comment like that.
Cliff I only represent Region 14 so my vote should tell you how we feel about the name change . I guess some simple things in life are not as easy to figure out as most people would think.
George
Last Edited by on Jul 31, 2008 2:52 PM
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Otis
123 posts
Aug 01, 2008
6:38 AM
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So George, What's the answer to Cliff's question? And please don't take it as a personal attack! And we shouldn't have to guess what your answer will be. Your a member of the EC right? Thank You, Otis
Last Edited by on Aug 01, 2008 6:41 AM
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smoke747
1277 posts
Aug 01, 2008
9:35 AM
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What is the reason for the change? Like nick said will anything change as far as participation or quality of the event? Just want to know what the big fuss is all about. I'm flying regardless of the name.
smoke747
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Keith London
ICRC
Last Edited by on Aug 01, 2008 9:43 AM
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turkey buzzard
50 posts
Aug 01, 2008
9:40 AM
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I can tell you why I voted against it when Alex Hamilton presented it to the fliers in Texas.
We have far bigger issues to come up and discuss rather than request a name Change. Come on lets get real!!! We have a system set up that the EC's have the vote. Who votes the EC's into that position? If the region is disgrunteled why not get someone voted into that region so they get there way with their EC's vote!!
Last Edited by on Aug 01, 2008 9:43 AM
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Ballrollers
1388 posts
Aug 01, 2008
10:39 AM
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George,
Pardon me if you felt offended. That was not my intention. But it points to this strange concept of the need for secrecy in our NBRC EC. A petition was presented to the EC; a simple idea, signed by 150+ men, who felt that it was appropriate to allow the flying members the chance to see if a name change was supported by a majority of the flyers who wanted to cast a ballot. The NBRC has had MAJOR policy voted on and accepted by a handful of men.....a whole lot less than 150 votes in TOTAL! I did not, in any way, down play the importance to those who feel the FF is the best name we can come up with. That is their opinion and they are more than welcome to support that option in the up coming vote. The name "Fall Fly" may well win. The name "National Championship" may win. That is the democratic process at work. What I do not understand is this large segment of opinion that the members do not have a right to vote on the matter. Based on my converstions with flyer from other regions and based on internet posts, most men believed that this vote was for or against the name Fall Fly. So they were misinformed. Very few members would have come down on the side of not letting the members vote had the been correctly informed. What I take exception with, is when RD's become demigods and do NOT represent the majority opinions of their regions flyers/members. These RD's are elected or appointed to represent the men in their regions, not just the ones they like, not just the ones that live close to them, but each man who has an opinion on the topic under consideration. In this case, a number of men wanted to take on an issue that they felt the EC did not put enough thought into. The EC took up this same question last year and voted not to consider if there was a better, more descriptive title to call the NBRC FLY. Many of the flyers felt they were not contacted by their RD's to canvass their opinions. We now seem to have many flyers who wish to be more involved in a few issues that come before the EC. For the life of me, I cannot see how more member involvement with their EC RD's , can do anything but help in the decision making process, and help generate interest in the process with the result of more men stepping up to fill positions. The smaller the number of men who make decisions for the whole, the more likely a mistake will be made.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Aug 01, 2008 10:51 AM
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Ballrollers
1389 posts
Aug 01, 2008
10:55 AM
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Carl (buzzard),
This has nothing to do with regions being disgruntled with their RD. It has to do with the RD's representing the regions majority opinion and not just the RD's personal opinion. The RD's are first and foremost the guys who organize NBRC Fly (or in your case the WC fly). The next they should discuss, or at least be open to with the men in their region, is whether they want to voice an opinion on a topic that comes before the EC or any issue that concerns their region. In my opinion, the RD's need to either canvass their flyers or be open to discussing issues with his flyers ... BEFORE he votes on issues that concern his flyers. This is a basic fundamental of how a democratic system works OR SHOULD WORK. Is it your opinion, that since the RD is the man in charge, no one else's opinion matters; he does not have to talk to his region's flyers to get their opinion and he does not have to represent his regions majority opinion that reflects, in his EC votes? I strongly disagree. I agree that perhaps the timing of the first vote on this issue, was not right due to more pressing issues. We have many areas that need attention. But still, we now see, that many men seem interested in the idea of participating in the political process.......an in changing the name of the fly to something more prestigious.
The RD position is not one of leadership, dictatorship, or anything akin to the presidency. It is one of representation. The RD's are the men who represent the regions MAJORITY OPINION, a service position. The whole system fails when the RD's fail to properly represent their region. Then we get disgruntled flyers and then we have unnecessary conflicts, as we now see in a couple regions.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Aug 01, 2008 11:28 AM
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fhtfire
1436 posts
Aug 01, 2008
11:08 AM
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Well....I would not mind a name change...national championship sounds more like it...Fall fly to me has always been kind of lame....A fall fly is something that a club fly should be called. Some regions dont start the fly in the Fall..LOL....anyway..just my thought...to be honest...I don't see what the huff is all about changing the name...let the membership vote and call it good.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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fhtfire
1437 posts
Aug 01, 2008
11:08 AM
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Well....I would not mind a name change...national championship sounds more like it...Fall fly to me has always been kind of lame....A fall fly is something that a club fly should be called. Some regions dont start the fly in the Fall..LOL....anyway..just my thought...to be honest...I don't see what the huff is all about changing the name...let the membership vote and call it good.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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fhtfire
1438 posts
Aug 01, 2008
11:08 AM
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Well....I would not mind a name change...national championship sounds more like it...Fall fly to me has always been kind of lame....A fall fly is something that a club fly should be called. Some regions dont start the fly in the Fall..LOL....anyway..just my thought...to be honest...I don't see what the huff is all about changing the name...let the membership vote and call it good.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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sippi
436 posts
Aug 01, 2008
11:14 AM
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Thats the whole deal. Let the flyers vote on it. Some might even fly just to get to vote this year. I personally would much rather win the National Championship than the Fall Fly. I agree with Paul 100%. Fall fly does sound lame for the National Championship. But at least allow a vote instead of trying to shove opinions on someone.
sippi
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Ballrollers
1390 posts
Aug 01, 2008
11:32 AM
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Keith,
You asked what is the reason for some men wanting to change the name.......The best comparison I have seen so far was..... Calling the NBRC fly, the Fall Fly is the same as calling the WORLD CUP the Spring fly. Whatever your perception of that terminology is, some feel it could be better named, more descriptive, a little more respect, a little more class if you please. So far the NBRC fly has been called the Fall fly and the James Perri Memorial Fly. Now, it seems that over 150 + men would like the chance to vote on a new more descriptive name. The question to the EC was should they allow the flyers to vote on the issue? The has EC just voted to give the flyers that option later this year. So the NBRC flyers will decide this issue. The underlying issue was whether the EC was going to be responsive to the members. In this case it was! Next we will see if this leads to a new name or we chose to keep the name Fall Fly. Whichever way it goes, it will show the members that the EC is responsive to their suggestions and ideas.....as it should be.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Aug 01, 2008 11:36 AM
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tapp
621 posts
Aug 01, 2008
12:16 PM
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Good post Cliff, I think of the name change this way. June bug? Fall Fly? NBRC National Champion!!! Yea!
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Tapp
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turkey buzzard
51 posts
Aug 01, 2008
12:48 PM
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Cliff, You can look at the record of Texas the last four years on every issue that was brought up for vote by WC. The LAD's were contacted and asked to contact the fliers in their region which they did or did not do and I voted based on that issue alone taking the group into consideration. I believe in my prior post I never mentioned RD'S but since you mentioned it. If the voting members of a region have a problem with the RD why not vote him out of office and get someone to his/her own liking. It makes no sense to me if I as an individual want to change something go before people who do not fly the N.B.R.C. flies to vote on this issue. Of the 150 members who signed the petition can we canvass those votes to determine how many actually flew in the last N.B.R.C. (Fall) fly.
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Ballrollers
1391 posts
Aug 01, 2008
1:57 PM
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Carl,
The Texas region seems to be doing things right. But that is not to say all regions do. The short answer to your question is: Only men who fly in the NBRC Fly 2008, will be able to cast a vote. It is difficult to check the credentials of men who put their names on that on-line petition, but men who vote will have to be men who support the fly. So, one way or another, that should set your mind at ease. But I see your point and I agree that only men who support the fly should be the ones to question things that pertain to the flys. Maybe the next time a poll is requested or a petition is requested, we could ask that only men who support the fly, sign up. Good suggestion.
Cliff
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Ballrollers
1392 posts
Aug 01, 2008
1:59 PM
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Carl,
You asked why regions that are unhappy with their RD don't take actions to elect someone else? I hate to say this but in some regions NO ONE wants the job, the NBRC President must appoint someone to RD that region, he may or not be from that region. We have a few weak regions that should never been made into a region. It takes kits of birds and warm bodies that want to volunteer for these service jobs. Just because a region can muster 10 kits does not always indicate these men are capable of the administration of a region. We have some RD's that are unable to communicate with their flyers. These RD positions have taken on a political flavor few men know how to handle. We are all hoping the cream will rise to the top and fill these positions. You of all people should see the problems associated with the responsibility of serving one's region. It CAN, at times, be a tough job. How many times have you heard "don't complain unless you are willing to step up"? But still they complain and guys quit and nobody steps forward. Is the region too small to cultivate men willing to serve? Is the overall political atmosphere such that nobody is willing to step forward? You get a few bad apples in one region and bad things are bound happen. Then we get guys who want to split off and form a new region to get their way, cause they can't beat so-in-so, it's too far to drive, we can't get a judge to commit because the region is too large, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch. It wasn't too long ago, that we had half the regions we have now. Then someone figured out they could get more MF points if they did NOT have much competition in a region, so they formed a new region. It was so easy, another one was formed and on and on. Instead of working together, we have formed all these tiny regions where things seem to just boil over from time to time and not enough good men to take up the slack. I wish I a had a better answer.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Aug 01, 2008 2:01 PM
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Scott
1024 posts
Aug 01, 2008
2:27 PM
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Cliff, most of the regions that I have seen split over the years wasn't due to the reasons that you indicated, they split due to the growth of the sport and to get the regions more managable.
As for the name change, it really makes no difference to me, although I do like the traditional name of the "Fall Fly" not anything that I would loose sleep over though either.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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sippi
440 posts
Aug 01, 2008
2:28 PM
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Just an FYI. I think 165 signed the petition and 127 of those were paid up members. The rest had not paid up yet or were not members.
sippi
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sundance
689 posts
Aug 01, 2008
3:54 PM
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Guys , if I remember right, I think this whole thing came about in response to a few areas wanting to start the "Fall Fly" earlier in the season to help avoid some of the predator problems that seam to get worse in the "FALL". It was stated by a few opponents of the idea that it wouldnt really be a fall fly if you do it in the mid to late summer. Someone then suggested that the name be changed accordingly. National Championship Fly.
Makes sense to me, with as many guys that complain about not being able to fly in Sept. or so because of the BOPs in their area.
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Butch @
Sundance Roller Lofts
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sippi
442 posts
Aug 01, 2008
4:22 PM
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Butch that may have been what brought it up the last time but not this time. It came about because one of the former winners said he would like it to be the National Championship before he dies so he can put it on his plaque. That is why I signed the petition plus if I were lucky enough to win it I would like to win the National Championship.
sippi
Last Edited by on Aug 04, 2008 5:47 PM
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sundance
694 posts
Aug 01, 2008
7:06 PM
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k Sippi, I think the name sounds more appropriate also. But it really dont matter to me either way. I`ll still fly if I can, regardless of the name.
I like the idea of the members and or the flyers having the vote on this. I have discussed it with my RD and appreciate him wanting our input on it. Majority rules.
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Butch @
Sundance Roller Lofts
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smoke747
1280 posts
Aug 03, 2008
12:56 AM
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Ok Cliff, I got you, NBRC Championship fly does sound better and a little more punch and status to it. I hope all of the members that are actually voting participate in the fly.
smoke747
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Keith London
ICRC
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Ballrollers
1393 posts
Aug 04, 2008
11:33 AM
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Keith,
ONLY men who enter the NBRC fly 2008; only men who pay the fee; only men who financially support the fly, will have the opportunity to vote on the name change. The vote will be held sometime after regional flys and maybe after the finals fly. We will have a record to check to make sure who is and who is not, qualified to cast a vote. If you do not enter the NBRC fly 2008, you will not be able to vote.
Cliff
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Ballrollers
1394 posts
Aug 04, 2008
7:51 PM
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Scott,
In response to your post above, splitting regions for reasons of growth are excellent reasons. Splitting where we end up with two strong regions is fine. But you live in the most roller rich state in the US. If we were all, only that lucky. The key word you used was "MOST." To form one weak region, is to, probably, form problems for somebody else. We got enough problems to go around without intentionally making more. But how about if the renamed the WC, the spring fly? We could call it the "most prestigious fly in the spring." I don't know , sounds kinda wimpy, doncha think?. :0)
Cliff
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LIL RIC
119 posts
Aug 05, 2008
8:15 AM
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the name should stay the same if it not broke dont fix it. i think it sounds like some people have to much time on there hands.
west side loft
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Ballrollers
1395 posts
Aug 05, 2008
8:40 AM
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RIC,
That's the point. It is broke. What sarted out as a Fly in the Fall, and named accordingly, has become our National Championship and the name no longer reflects that fact.
Cliff
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kcfirl
462 posts
Aug 05, 2008
10:09 AM
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Cliff/all,
there are more important issues that the NBRC should be addressing than what to call the anual fly sponsored by the club. There are serious issues facing the club that need to be addressed and I see the name of the fly seems to be the one folks want to spend time on.
Ludicrous.
Ken firl
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LIL RIC
120 posts
Aug 05, 2008
10:27 AM
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It worked all these years. Why mess with success. Additionally what exactly does NBRC stand for? or don't you really know?
NBRC FALL FLY represents all of us and it did many years prior to any one single individual arrived at the scene.
Let the NATIONAL BIRMINGHAM ROLLER CLUB FALL FLY
BE WHAT IT WAS MEANT TO BE.
THANK YOU WEST SIDE LOFT
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