yang501424
153 posts
Aug 14, 2008
6:54 PM
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I was wondering culls like not flying with the kit to well, not trapping good enough or some minor error about the birds but rolls good in the air. The bird are from very good bloodline ( top breeder and flyer in the nation i mean everyone breeds cull no matter who is it) but taking these birds with minor errors and breeding them do you think there is a chance of getting a number 1 kit bird out of these? It may take awhile. Good can turn into bad but can bad turn into good? I just want to know who out there believes in bloodline or breeding birds together that deserves the stock pen no matter what strain it is. For example what im trying to say here is that for people that can't afford high price birds or is a starter but instead takes afew culls (with minor errors) for free from a master flyer/breeder and breeds them. Any chance of getting a number 1 kit bird.
Last Edited by on Aug 14, 2008 8:08 PM
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creeksidelofts
29 posts
Aug 14, 2008
8:18 PM
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Culls should stay culls.If you breed out of birds that don't kit you will raise alot of like birds.There are lots of good people in rollers that would give good birds(not culls) to someone to help them out.Tony
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Fire Brewed Rollers
55 posts
Aug 14, 2008
8:29 PM
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If you’re new or beginning in the sport the top breeders should be helping you out and giving you a very good deal on the birds... They should not be giving you or any one junk or culls on purpose. They may have too many birds and not flying some. Also if you think the bird is junk ask to trade it for another bird, if they have good birds they should exchange the bird or give you another. Good breeders will give the best they can.
Robert Miller
Fire Brewed Rollers
SGVS
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gotspin7
1712 posts
Aug 15, 2008
6:32 AM
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Yang, to keep it simple it is all about the bird.
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Sal Ortiz
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Ragin Rollers
53 posts
Aug 15, 2008
6:41 AM
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BAD BIRDS OR BAD TRAINERS --- YOU MAKE THE CALL----
Ragin.........
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sippi
468 posts
Aug 15, 2008
6:57 AM
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Yang start with the best you can get or can afford. You can breed these birds with faults and could produce some good birds. You would have to cull the offspring hard to eliminate the faults that are there. It will just take longer to get to where you want to be.
sippi
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7001
57 posts
Aug 15, 2008
7:24 AM
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Yang, If you have time in your schedule,breed it.You can always get rid of the birds.My motto is never live for
the what ifs,what if this or what if that.The bird
probally could produce better than himself,but you will never know until you breed him.I'm talking from
experince.Good luck
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J_Star
1714 posts
Aug 15, 2008
7:52 AM
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What you mentioned in your original post is nothing more than bad habits the bird(s) picked up as youngsters. The majority of birds that are from top breeders are devoid of major faults. However, any youngster is nothing more than being an aggregate of its ancestors. Even thou the parents might be of excellent qualities, the youngsters might not be due to the background of their ancestry. That is why we all have culls.
Jay
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2747 posts
Aug 15, 2008
8:19 AM
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Hey All, I just wanted to jump in here and say I am very impressed by the responses you guys gave to yang. There was a time everyone might have responded "cull it"!
But more and more guys are figuring these birds out. Keep it up!
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
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JMUrbon
615 posts
Aug 15, 2008
11:11 AM
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There is no guarentees with any pair of birds. The best two birds in the country can raise culls and roll downs. That being said I like what was said earlier that you should start with the best stock attainable to you. Also YES to answer your question as to if a cull can raise a champion. It is just more likely to happen when breeding from a great bird than a cull. We say as a rule of thumb best to best. Well if your best is a bird with some flaws as you put it then that is your best so use it. You could be surprised. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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yang501424
154 posts
Aug 15, 2008
12:10 PM
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Let me add something here that this post doesn't have to do anything with me but im trying to see if anyone have ever breed a bird that doesn't qualify to be in team A (doesn't have to be a cull) and have bred very good bird out of it. A bird can be a champion in the air but not all can be a champion in a stock pen correct? We all try to breed best to the best but anyone ever try breeding average bird (i shouldn't use the word cull) and gets a bird thats actually qualify in the stock pen? For example Joe Emberton told me just a few weeks ago that there was a hen that was doing something wrong (i forgot) and he was going to foster it but actually got a round from them and gave it to a friend to fly and he said that the birds were doing really good. Most of us only breed best to best so we dont really know what those avg bird can do sometime in the pen. Im not saying all but i know a few because it has been done before. What this is all about is possibility.
Last Edited by on Aug 15, 2008 12:29 PM
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J_Star
1716 posts
Aug 15, 2008
12:31 PM
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I have used a cock in the past that was not good for couple of rounds. I got good birds from him, however, I replaced him with a better performer cock when I had the first chance simply because if I have better, why not use him!! The chances of getting better birds are greater with a performer (psychologically speaking). That is why we say the Apple don't fall too far from the tree.
Jay
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yang501424
155 posts
Aug 15, 2008
12:41 PM
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Im not asking why we breed best to the best but im saying that for a poor guy that doesn't have the best of the best but some avg birds is there a possibility of him raising better birds then what he has. Can he start from the middle to the top (with a well known strain). Anyone you know that has some decent birds for the few first years but now has much better birds then before. Do we have to start from the top to be on the top?
Last Edited by on Aug 15, 2008 12:48 PM
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TimP
35 posts
Aug 15, 2008
1:29 PM
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Yang, there's always a chancen but like sippi said it's just going to take longer, and it's hard enough as it is to figure out a family of birds as iot is. If u got some birds from Joe E. u should have a good start he doesn't charge much and there's alot a guys around there that will help u out David and Aris have done really well.
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yang501424
156 posts
Aug 15, 2008
3:09 PM
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This post isn't about me or getting having whos bird im just throwing this out.
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dave
377 posts
Aug 15, 2008
5:32 PM
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Yang,
To answer your question: yes you can get good birds from average to below average birds IF they come from a good line. They can carry the good and can pass it on. Good birds are not guaranteed to produce themselves or better. It's hard enough to breed good birds so that is why most say breed best to best.
Dave
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Spin City USA
78 posts
Aug 15, 2008
10:29 PM
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If you know your birds and have been breeding them long enough to understand their personalities you can breed from a bird that may not be as good of a performer as some of your other birds, but it has all the other qualities that you want,and it is in the family. It can be the control factor in that family if they are excessively deep. I had such a hen who would throw the best blue ck bdgs. Her other offspring were good but the ck bdgs were outstanding. She only threw me three of them. I am thinking that somewhere in the background there must have been some good ones, that may be part of a color link in that family. I dont breed for color but I do notice things like that. I think that this is where reading the peds comes in handy,you can look in the past history of the family and that may tell you why you are seeing what you see in your birds. Has anyone else noticed this in their birds?
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They gotta Spin to win.....Jay
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