Ballrollers
1415 posts
Aug 27, 2008
1:34 PM
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For those who are interested, the National Performing Roller Association has a new acting President, Ty Coleman, along with several new members of its Board of Directors, and has separated itself from any affiiation with the website of slobberknockerlofts. The club now has its own website and discussion forum. Let's just say that this was motivated by significant differences of opinion. I know that there were many disagreements between the outgoing President and owner of the former website and the owner of this website, Tony Chevarria. Hopefully a better and mutually-beneficial relationship will now evolve between the NPRA, under new leadership, and this site. Good luck to the organization and its new format.
Cliff
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George R.
984 posts
Aug 27, 2008
2:53 PM
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wasnt it Ty that who submitted the petition to change the NBRC Fall Fly name ..
Maybe the NPRA should have a fly and call it the National Championship...what do you guys think ????
The Novice
George Ruiz
Last Edited by on Aug 27, 2008 2:57 PM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2763 posts
Aug 27, 2008
3:17 PM
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Hey All, I am not going to tolerate seeing Ty bad-mouthed AT ALL. I have spent many hours on the phone with him and he is a good roller man.
George, last I knew it was Gregg Sale who was actively promoting the name change. I may be incorrect but my request to join in and sign the petition which I did not, was from Gregg, not Ty.
Congratulations Ty on the new position. I wish you luck and harmony with your new responsibilities. You know how I feel about color and yet you and I get along fabulously.
Give me a call if you would like to discuss anything. Best of Luck!
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
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PR_rollers
1531 posts
Aug 27, 2008
3:31 PM
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Congratulations Ty ...
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Ralph
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Electric-man
1982 posts
Aug 27, 2008
3:41 PM
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Congrats Mr. Coleman!
Anything that I can do for you, just ask!
Way to go Tony!
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Val
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don33
2 posts
Aug 27, 2008
4:27 PM
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Good job Ty, Hope to meet you some day. Good luck! Don Sutton
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Ty Coleman
481 posts
Aug 27, 2008
5:52 PM
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Thanks Guy,s . We are just doing our best to support the hobby ! Tony, that meant alot to me thanks !
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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sundance
761 posts
Aug 27, 2008
6:17 PM
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good luck Ty....
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Butch @
Sundance Roller Lofts
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Ty Coleman
482 posts
Aug 27, 2008
6:23 PM
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Hey Val , Im still just plain Ty lol
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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nicksiders
3134 posts
Aug 27, 2008
6:52 PM
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Gregg Sale was not the main promoter of changing the Fall Fly's name. He is the one who put the petition together, but it was others who pushed it.
I also want to say that my bad experiences with the NPRA was not with all of the membership. Just the owner (or ex-owner) and one or two others. I have some good friends over there and I include Ty as a friend.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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gotspin7
1779 posts
Aug 28, 2008
4:44 AM
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Cliff or Ty, will they or you start any comps with the club Nationally?
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Sal Ortiz
Last Edited by on Aug 28, 2008 4:44 AM
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Ballrollers
1418 posts
Aug 28, 2008
8:05 AM
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Sal,
The NPRA, in the past, has been committed to all fanciers who fly performing rollers, with particular committment to the back yard flyers. There have been discussions of competitions, but nothing got off the ground under the former President and owner of the former site, as he is dead set against competition in any form. My personal agenda is to encourage the NPRA to fill the much-needed niche of hosting a competition for the best individual performer in the US...a competition in which a National Championship Individual Performer would be judged. A lot of groundwork will be needed before it gets off the ground, but I think it would be well-worth the effort. There is little chance of such an event ever happening in the NBRC with the current mindset of the men who fly competition being set on kit competition only. I beleive that there are a number of flyers out there who raise great individual birds, and are willing to compete with them. And these flyers are currently being omitted from organized competitions and acknowledgement for their accomplishements with good individual performers.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Aug 28, 2008 8:08 AM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2764 posts
Aug 28, 2008
8:19 AM
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I hesitate to bring this up Cliff, because maybe the time is not quite right, but based on your above post, it sounds like the world might be ready for my "Black Country Challenge", a Perpetual Trophy Competition to be sponsored by a new privately run club put together by RPDC called the "National Roller Pigeon Club".
It would be geared toward local flyers challenging one another year round for a perpetual trophy.
Only members of the club could challenge or accept a challenge. The trophy/s have to be competed for every 30 days.
Any thoughts anyone?
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
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kcfirl
478 posts
Aug 28, 2008
8:42 AM
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Ty,
if you plan on making the single bird champinship one of the primary goals of the "new" NPRA objectives, I am here to support you.
I could not support what I saw in the old NPRA but I am willing to listen to what the new goals for the club are and my support will be based on seeing real commitment judged by actions toward those new goals.
Regards,
Ken Firl
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Oldfart
799 posts
Aug 28, 2008
11:25 AM
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Good luck,Ty!
Thom
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Customkev
29 posts
Aug 28, 2008
12:47 PM
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Cliff, would you mind posting the new link? Thanks. Kev
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nicksiders
3137 posts
Aug 28, 2008
1:46 PM
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I would not support any activity or club that is in direct competition with the NBRC. What would a "National Roller Pigeon Club" give you that is different than the NBRC gives you. If you want additional flying events submit the request to the NBRC. I see nothing constructive happening in the roller world with the formation of another national club.
Yes, same old Nick
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2765 posts
Aug 28, 2008
2:12 PM
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Hey Nick, since you are my RD, consider yourself notified of my desire for a "Black Country Challenge" with a perpetual trophy that must be challenged and defended within 30 days or given up.
Have a challenge occurring in each region in which the NBRC is represented. Is the membership up to it? Is the club able to manage an ongoing event such as this?
Thanks for the suggestion. What is the process now? When will an idea like this be presented? Does a petition have to be presented?
Do I have to be a flyer in this years Fall Fly to have any business bringing something like this up for consideration?
:-)
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
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ezeedad
778 posts
Aug 28, 2008
6:57 PM
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I for one really like the idea of having one or more alternatives to the trend that has been set by the NBRC.
Paul G
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nicksiders
3138 posts
Aug 28, 2008
7:48 PM
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Paul,
The NBRC is in a constant change mode. It has gone through many changes since its creation.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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nicksiders
3139 posts
Aug 28, 2008
8:02 PM
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Tony,
I will present this along with your questions to the NBRC and see how it floats.
Something to keep in mind; as it is now with the NBRC having nearly 2000 members only 10 to 15% fly in competitions and that includes the FF and the WC. The same flyers tend to fly both Competitions are hard work to participate in and harder to organize and bring to life. Only a few take on RD positions; are willing to judge; run for the various offices; and it is usually the same people just in different jobs from year to year. Now to add another fly event you are going to again find the same people doing all of work and those that compete in the FF and WC will be the same people competing in your new event.
I am not trying to discourage you or anyone else that is interested, just trying to paint as real of a picture as I can.
I will let you know how it is recieved when I put it all together.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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gotspin7
1788 posts
Aug 29, 2008
4:38 AM
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Tony, I would fly.
Nick, I think you are right on the subject, a lot of people I think find reasons why not to fly more so than trying to find a reason to fly..lol..
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Sal Ortiz
Last Edited by on Aug 29, 2008 4:42 AM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2766 posts
Aug 29, 2008
8:53 AM
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heheheheh...never thought of it quite that way, kind of ironic that a national club with members boasting about competition being the name of the game doesn't want any other national club competing with it!? Now that's FUNNY! LOL
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
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bman
607 posts
Aug 29, 2008
10:24 AM
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Tony,might want to make a provision in that 30 day challenge for those areas that lockdown in the fall/winter.
Maybe a three wins in a row you get to keep the trophy and a new one goes in circulation?
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Ron
Borderline lofts
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Ballrollers
1423 posts
Aug 29, 2008
10:42 AM
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Tony,
The "national club" didn't say that it didn't want a competitor roller club...nicksiders said it. Please do not confuse the opinions of individuals who hold office in the NBRC as speaking FOR the NBRC...and that includes me...unless we are very specifice in our communication that we have communicated with the EC and the response is so and so......otherwise, it's just personal opinion.
Nick,
I submitted this idea of individual competition to the NBRC EC a couple years ago. It was declined; the prevailing opinion was that the "certified spinner program" deals effectively with individual performance and flyers who are interested in that aspect of the hobby...NOT!!! That is as near a defunct program as the NBRC has in place! LOL!
But good luck with your proposal.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Aug 29, 2008 10:43 AM
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Ballrollers
1428 posts
Aug 29, 2008
11:07 AM
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Tony,
Have you thought about all the details? How will you fund this fly? Who will collect the funds? Who will pay for the trophy? What happens when the traveling trophy gets lost? Where are your fly rules? Who will vote on the fly rules? etc.
Cliff
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nicksiders
3140 posts
Aug 29, 2008
11:34 AM
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Hey Doc,
I would accept any new national club, but where are all those national clubs now? That is why I would be reluctant to support a new national club. The only viable national club right now is the NBRC. It has to have done many things right to have it still flourishing after more than 45 years. I think all of us in the roller world has a responsibility and obligation in its maintianence simply because of the other failed national clubs. A defunct club does nothing for us. A national club becomes defunct because of a lack of support by its membership and a lack of direction by its leadership.
There just ain't enough of us to support another national club.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2767 posts
Aug 29, 2008
11:39 AM
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Hey Cliff, I have to go to a meeting right now, but I will talk to you more later.
But in a nutshell, RPDC would sponsor it and only 2 competitors fly on a given day per local club/region, everyone can go watch the fun or not.
Expenses will be paid for by an entry fee paid to RPDC. I am even considering a cash prize and trophy for the top flyer of the year.
I have it all in my head and some on paper. The local clubs will judge their own members. If there should be enough interest, I would be all over this and flys started by January 2009.
RPDC and perhaps the NPRA could combine efforts on something like this (I don't think the Black Country Challenge will fly with the NBRC, but I could be wrong) or not but their would be national recognition for local clubs and flyers...
More later...
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
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ezeedad
781 posts
Aug 29, 2008
11:41 AM
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I like your idea Tony,
But only I bird in the whole USA...??? Wow... How could that be done...?? How about maybe the top ten,,??
My video idea is coming back in focus,,, Hmmm......
There would have to be flies every month across the nation... everybody's birds judged using a system that works. Now, I could see this working on a local level.. But I absolutely am crazy about the idea of bringing the focus back on ONE BIRD...!!
Also this can bring a lot more competitors into play, and it levels the playing field. You don't need to have an acre of space and fly six kits to be competitive.
Paul G
Last Edited by on Aug 29, 2008 11:44 AM
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3757
887 posts
Aug 29, 2008
11:49 AM
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Nick - I can understand what you are saying but I look at this just like business and government. We, in this country, are also dependent on the small businesses that are created every year. Some fail but some do not. I support all who have new ideas and I look at big clubs like big government. Also, I have always cheered for the underdog :) I respect your views but I think that we need more National clubs. This is just my view as no one is wrong or right. Nick, keep up the great work and support!!!
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sippi
500 posts
Aug 29, 2008
12:28 PM
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I am all in for it. BUT I am my club. What about those of us out there all alone in the boonies. I guess Don, Roy and myself are close enough together that we could have a fly with our birds. There is also a club three hours south of me that has monthly sixteen birds flys, might spark some interest out of them.
Sippi
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Ballrollers
1431 posts
Aug 29, 2008
1:39 PM
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Those details would have to be worked out, of course, Sippi. There would probably be large regional judges to be called upon to judge your birds.
Paul Gomez,
Would you e-mail or send me more information on the 30 point scoring system? I read over it briefly, but I need all the details if you have them.
Brian Middaugh had some great ideas that were posted on the old NPRA forum during the discussion, before the idea was killed by the old president of the club. I wish we could get ahold of that thread. It was a great exchange of ideas...I think you had some good input also, LaRon.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Aug 29, 2008 1:44 PM
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Ballrollers
1432 posts
Aug 29, 2008
1:42 PM
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Tony,
How about an NPRA Best Individual Performer(s) National Championship sponsored by Roller-pigeon.com? Just brain-storming here......
Cliff
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3757
888 posts
Aug 29, 2008
3:03 PM
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Cliff - Give me an e-mail at ldoucet95@yahoo.com I shared some information with Paul on a concept almost the same as the one you posted.
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Ty Coleman
483 posts
Aug 29, 2008
3:20 PM
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Tony, we actualy tried this past year something real similar to your idea. I plan to push it again this year. If you could send me some details we could work with I will put it in front of the NPRA Board. Our Concept has always been close to Pensom's , focused on the single bird. We are a very diversed club , we show respect for every flyer and his or her birds no matter what there goals. I will post our link if Tony has no problem with it ? We called our idea the one loft roll off.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
Last Edited by on Aug 29, 2008 3:46 PM
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dave
383 posts
Aug 29, 2008
4:26 PM
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This sounds like fun but if the fly has to be every 30 days do we use the same judge? We know that not all judges judge the same way. More details would help.
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George R.
986 posts
Aug 29, 2008
9:40 PM
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There would have to be flies every month across the nation... everybody's birds judged using a system that works. Now, I could see this working on a local level.. But I absolutely am crazy about the idea of bringing the focus back on ONE BIRD...!!
Also this can bring a lot more competitors into play, and it levels the playing field. "You don't need to have an acre of space and fly six kits to be competitive".
Paul G
Paul who has a acre and six Kits ??? when I lived in L.A. noone had that much land and Time to fly six Kits
The Novice
George
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sundance
767 posts
Aug 30, 2008
5:53 AM
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Tony, is every 30 days even realistic? most flyers are "forced" to lock down for half the year... would every 3 months be more do-able? also on the every 30 days thing, by the time a traveling trophy got to "house-x" , 2 weeks later it would have to be mailed back out to "house-y" and so on.
Maybe start in march, a trophy is awarded. Again in June with the trophy going to that winner. and then a final flyoff in Sept., with that winner being the winner of the year( having to have competed in both previous flys) and that flier keeps the trophy. A new trophy for the following year would then begin the following year.
Just an idea to throw into the mix. I think its a neat idea and would be happy to participate. ( if I had a bird worth a dang) LOL
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Butch @
Sundance Roller Lofts
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Ballrollers
1437 posts
Aug 30, 2008
7:40 PM
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You guys lost me with this "every 30 days" thing. It could be structured similar to the NBRC and WC flys with regional competitions judged my local judges at a time of the year when they could showcase their best birds and select their qualifer(s). Then within a set time period, perhaps 30 days, the NPRA/RPDC would send a finals judge to judge and score the qualifer(s). Scoring could continue throughout the year and a leader board posted on the websites. Then at the end of the year, perhaps in December, the winner(s) would be announced and awarded.
What criteria would individual performance be judged on. Obviously, speed, depth, quality, and frequency....I guess kitting would be out....as only three to five birds would be flown at a time. Thoughts guys?
Cliff
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gotspin7
1797 posts
Aug 31, 2008
1:48 AM
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List, what if they just had another judge along with the judge..lol... here we go judging the individual bird selected by the flyer.. Two comps in one.. I think the best thing would be along with the world cup and fall fly. Just a idea, can any one add to this?
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Sal Ortiz
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sundance
771 posts
Aug 31, 2008
5:49 AM
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I doubt there are enough judges out there who would be willing , or able, to do the traveling necessary to pull all this off. from my personal conversations with my RD it seems that finding a judge to do our region is tough enough already. I think this all would be a great idea, but I also doubt any of it will get off the ground for many reasons. I think we need to just be thankful for having the WC and the Fall Fly.
Then again, there seems to be enough controversy over those 2 flies every year. Anouther national event would just be anouther opportunity for some to begin more arguments about whether the fly was scored properly, or if a judge was too loose, or were certain fliers givin "ideal" fly times over others, did so-n-so stretch the rules, what are the rules, blah, blah, blah. LOL
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Butch @
Sundance Roller Lofts
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2770 posts
Aug 31, 2008
6:28 AM
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Hey All, the Black Country Challenge I have in mind is one regional or local flyer vs another flyer who was either challenged or accepted a challenge within a 30 day period of time. The trophy has to be "up" for grabs no more than every 30 days until the fly season is over.
As for a judge, the 2 competitors select and agree on their own local judge, could be a club member or from another local club.
No national championship or flying judges around the country. Just straight pure regional or local club competitions: kit vs kit or bird vs bird; trophy holder determined that day. He then has no more than 30 days to protect it or lose it.
Whoever, can hold onto the trophy longest (number of actual wins - not points) than anyone else in that region or local club, he becomes their "champion".
A perpetual trophy can be up as many times during the season as the trophy holder wants to challenge or accept a challenge as long as it is no more than 30 days.
A winner has to accept or challenge from the group of flyers who have not yet flown in the first round, before the eligibility of all flyers opens up again in a round 2.
This approach, I believe would tend to produce more interesting competition flys between individuals who want to have a chance of holding the trophy or someone who wants to clock as many wins as he can to "catch" somebody else who had more wins from earlier in the season.
Each region or club that wants to vie for a RPDC Black Country Challenge Perpetual Trophy would have to have at least 10 registered flyers, they hold as many flys as they want in the season but no less than 10 with each registrant having at least one shot at winning and holding the trophy for that competition.
In the event of a tie in the number of wins, the two or three flyers will have to have a single fly-off within 30 days to determine the new champion.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
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George R.
987 posts
Aug 31, 2008
6:48 AM
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Tony
We already cant get enough Flyers to Fly in the Fall Fly and World Cup so why would all those Folks that choose to keep there kit box doors shut Fly in this Fly.
I think its good that you are trying to put on a Fly but I dont think people will Fly .
People will make excuses like " I Breed for the real Birmingham standard" or "it aint fair you have a acre of land and 6 kits to Fly " or the rules dont reward quality and thats what I breed and Fly quality pigeons" or " I dont want anybody at my House I only breed CHAMPIONS and I dont want someone to steal them"
Anyway good luck and let me know if you need help putting this together .
as you know I fly regardless of the RULES or times or whatever else obstacle is presented to me.
The novice
George
Last Edited by on Aug 31, 2008 6:52 AM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2771 posts
Aug 31, 2008
7:11 AM
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Hey George,I here you brother, thanks for being willing to help out. For those that won't fly, fine for them, their choice. But for those who might want this kind of competition and the fun it could be, let's make it happen. Why not?
We need to vet the best ideas and come up with solutions for the sticky points. At RPDC, everyone is on the Executive Committee! lol
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2772 posts
Aug 31, 2008
7:12 AM
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Oh, by the way, did I mention there is to be a nice CASH PRIZE for each regional or local Champion to paid by a portion of the registration fees?
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
Last Edited by on Aug 31, 2008 7:13 AM
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ezeedad
786 posts
Aug 31, 2008
1:08 PM
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George...
I meant to be really competitive... like World Cup scale... Of course it could happen for a small scale breeder,... How many kits do you fly George?
Paul G
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ezeedad
787 posts
Aug 31, 2008
1:12 PM
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Sal,
Your idea of combining the two competitions could work, but only for the guys who are involved in the kit competition. What would happen to a guy who, let's say, only has 12 birds flying, but wants to enter an individual into competition?
Paul G
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ezeedad
788 posts
Aug 31, 2008
1:15 PM
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Cliff,
Kitting could be included by only counting what the bird did if it rolled from the group....
Paul G
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George R.
988 posts
Aug 31, 2008
1:18 PM
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Paul I fly two kits with my 3 Kids and crazy work schedule I am blessed to be able to Fly.
Here in the Las Vegas there is not much traffic going to Work so I get to Fly before work or after work.
In L.A. I used to spend more time stuck in Traffic then what I got for my Vacation every year.
the Novice
George
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Ballrollers
1455 posts
Sep 02, 2008
12:39 PM
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Sal,
The men who make the decisions in the NBRC and the WC are just not interested in a competition for individual performance. Although on the surface it seems simple enough, there are logicstical problems as well. It'll never fly as a joint competition.
Cliff
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