big grizz prc1
15 posts
Sep 02, 2008
8:48 PM
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greeting everyone im looking for some picture of
any original pensom 514 birds, if anyone has some
that they can post it would be greatly appreciated.
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glenn
151 posts
Sep 03, 2008
6:20 AM
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Hello:
You should check out Pensom's book, there is a picture of her in there and sveral others...Glenn
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kopetsa
1456 posts
Sep 03, 2008
11:23 AM
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Anyone know which page 514 is on?
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Andrew
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3757
895 posts
Sep 03, 2008
11:35 PM
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She is on page 85
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kopetsa
1461 posts
Sep 03, 2008
11:38 PM
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Was she solid black? jw
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Andrew
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3757
896 posts
Sep 03, 2008
11:47 PM
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Blue check bronze self
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3757
897 posts
Sep 04, 2008
12:49 AM
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Big Grizzle - Tom Monson's write up is accurate on that page!
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big grizz prc1
16 posts
Sep 04, 2008
2:46 AM
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thank you everyone for all your help lol.
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ICEMAN710
508 posts
Sep 04, 2008
2:49 AM
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thats some good reading material.
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Gary
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J_Star
1735 posts
Sep 04, 2008
6:51 AM
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The brid been dead for over 50 years!!
Jay
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3757
898 posts
Sep 04, 2008
8:11 AM
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Jay - The bird was born around 55 years ago but she has not been dead over 50 years. The guys just ask about a photo of the bird. My Great-grandmother died over 80 years ago and I recently saw a photo of her also. It means nothing but a person's curiosity. 514 died at Howard McCully's place.
Big Grizzle - The last of the Pensom birds produced young until the early eighties. Also, do not let people discourage you if you are interested in something.
Last Edited by on Sep 04, 2008 11:12 AM
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ezeedad
791 posts
Sep 04, 2008
10:29 AM
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Leo
Member
103 posts
Apr 21, 2009
9:05 AM
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Ezee,It was kinda nice to stumble across the 514 picture and article,Bill Pensom sent me N.B.R.C. 63,3738 in 1966,BOY! he was CLASS from every angle..THANKS...
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ezeedad
954 posts
Apr 21, 2009
6:46 PM
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Leo,
Do you or anyone else have pictures of 514 sons and/or daughters?
Paul G
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3757
1235 posts
Apr 21, 2009
7:33 PM
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Paul - I have a few. I will call you.
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Leo
Member
104 posts
Apr 22, 2009
8:27 AM
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..3757,...I cannot make connection,trying to reach you! Sorry Ezee I wish i had taken pictures.but In those days Who would think these birds would be of intrest today?? there were several other birds also,PRC 73 17056,RED BALD.....PRC 72 16192 LAVENDER both cocks..17056 was inbred top side the famous 350 cock..or the 1232 cock...I still have this "priceless" family I cherish!..later..LEO
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3757
1236 posts
Apr 22, 2009
9:21 AM
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Leo - I have e-mailed you a lot. My e-mail is ldoucet@spfldcol.edu It has been a while since we spoke to each other. I hope all is well.
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3757
1237 posts
Apr 22, 2009
10:32 AM
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Here is photo of a daughter of 514.
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Leo
Member
105 posts
Apr 22, 2009
11:54 AM
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ML, I have 17056 being inbred on the top side:59-5382x62-8452,..these two birds were son an dau,out of 1947, an two diff cocks.they are listed J.L.S...I still have three Lav, cocks of the 16192 line.. 3757 thats a teriffic picture, it should tell us where were going!..be back...LEO
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Leo
Member
107 posts
Apr 22, 2009
4:17 PM
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How well I know about pedigrees & B.S. these pedigrees are 'signed' by one of the great ones! I have birds with 514 in their background 54 times,as well as the fabulous 119,many times.I feel 119 is overlooked most of the time when guys talk foundation birds,Pensom said 119 was the best cock ever bred in America..but not much heard about him?..you hear anything about his offspring???...LEO
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Scott
2102 posts
Apr 23, 2009
7:32 AM
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Every hard inbred line of 514 that I have seen are stiff as boards and not even worth feeding unless you just like relishing over band numbers.
I suspect most of it is due to pedigree breeding for how many times 514 can show up on a pedigree, or just one of those lines that just petered out on it's own, at this stage it is hard to say.
Any thoughts ?
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Apr 23, 2009 7:33 AM
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0221
222 posts
Apr 23, 2009
7:42 AM
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Frank Laven,Told Me It wasn't His best stuff. He said He had brother's and sister's to 514, And His hands on lots of that blood. I think Don Hearn made that bird just as famos with His writing about her as anybody.
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Scott
2103 posts
Apr 23, 2009
8:16 AM
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0221, I think she is a piece of the puzzle of many fine families, she just isn't the only part of the puzzle even though many tried to make her such , I have learned to be very leary of those that beat on their chest about 514 and how jammed up their birds are to her, normaly it is more of a paper trail than anything.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Apr 23, 2009 8:20 AM
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0221
223 posts
Apr 23, 2009
8:26 AM
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Scott, I saw at one time' at Ron Moden's place in San Diego some of the fastest stuff ever, in the air of dark check bronze's. they look pea's in a pod. Bred down out of Herb Sparks stuff I'm Sure there was alot of that blood in them. But these weren't just paper work bred rollers, they were flown to performance.
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Leo
Member
109 posts
Apr 23, 2009
8:39 AM
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Hey Mesiah,Some day you will be able to read a post,NO ONE was beating on their chest,we dont care about your eggbid birds and their bearings,and to help you along 514 was line bred 13 times by the master himself,There was no ped or paper breeding,You just have to continue with your "KNOW IT ALL" remarks, trying to impress somebody ..GET A GRIP! or some good birds...
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Scott
2104 posts
Apr 23, 2009
8:57 AM
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Which is what I fly (McCully/Sparks), performance bred is performance bred,my birds are loaded with 272.
These birds better be flown hard to make sure the goods are there and continuing the line, the good ones are very good and the bad are very bad , it is all about selection around performance.
I have seen what happens to these birds also when value is put into the blood rather than what is in hand at the time, and it isn't worth feeding.
I learned along time ago, thast the only importance for me lays only in the quality of my stock loft at any given time, I never look at what is behind me.
(Scott, I saw at one time' at Ron Moden's place in San Diego some of the fastest stuff ever, in the air of dark check bronze's. they look pea's in a pod. Bred down out of Herb Sparks stuff I'm Sure there was alot of that blood in them. But these weren't just paper work bred rollers, they were flown to )performance.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Apr 23, 2009 9:02 AM
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Leo
Member
110 posts
Apr 23, 2009
12:51 PM
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Mesiah,Iam glad you learned a long time ago the only importance for YOU!Is your 'Know it all'never look at whats behind you attitude! Iam sorry you got some bad 514 stuff, but it happens, you knocked Pensoms birds long enough,WE were trying to hold a decent an informative discussion on this site,But once again,you came and everybodys gone...
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Scott
2105 posts
Apr 23, 2009
3:01 PM
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Actualy Leo just the opposite, I am one of the ones pitting the old Pensom blood against the best in the country and the world, the difference between you and me is that I let the birds do the talking,where you just ,well, talk.
(you knocked Pensoms birds long enough,)
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Leo
Member
111 posts
Apr 23, 2009
4:27 PM
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Mesiah,Dont let me have to dig up some of your old stuff (slick willie) an krap like that,,THEN you go and play chest beater at Pensom memorial?? NOW! YOU are trying to CONDEM the way I choose to fly my birds..Who The Hell Do You Think You Are!!!?Im Just talk? you say ? These birds have won two state flys,...Already ahead of you and I dont even comp, now BIG MOUTH if that aint good enough,I got the big one waiting...Carry On! 'know it all',and you will look like the Fool you are....ITS Amazing now youre trying to cover up saying you are pitting old Pemsom blood against the best in the...WORLD...???? Pitiful.If you were such a fan of the old blood we wouldnt even be dissagreeing right now,,,
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ezeedad
955 posts
Apr 23, 2009
5:00 PM
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Okay...
Let me stand in there... and try to break up this fight..!!
Everybody knows that 514 is AT LEAST one of the most famous rollers ever... and for good reason. She produced famous bird after famous bird.
However, I understand what Scott is saying, in that there have been many stiff birds produced with her in their background... But it is because virtually every bird out of 514 was bred... as if she couldn't ever produce a dud. There was just too much pedigree breeding done around this bird, and in many cases it backfired...
So.... You're both right.... I'll leave the rest of the argument alone....
Paul G
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ezeedad
956 posts
Apr 23, 2009
5:35 PM
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LaRon,
Which daughter of 514 is that in the picture you posted? 514 was definitely not a looker in my opinion. Wonder what Pensom saw in her? Of course you can't use just one picture to judge a bird..
Paul
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
389 posts
Apr 23, 2009
7:42 PM
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Leo,
You know my old Grandpappy taught me it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt.
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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3757
1240 posts
Apr 23, 2009
8:49 PM
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Paul - She is NBRC-64-#6097 off of NBRC-63-3879 (Bred by Bill) and PRC-53-514
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Scott
2107 posts
Apr 24, 2009
5:56 AM
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Thats it Leo, just so you know ,I put grandma and her sister Mable on Greyhound last night, they are heading out to kick your ass on their way to the Indian casinos.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Apr 24, 2009 6:47 AM
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Leo
Member
112 posts
Apr 24, 2009
6:56 AM
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Ezee,In the 70s several individuals,(inCalif) decided to sell 514 birds,(even kits)were for sale, I could NOT handle this Idea, that any one could do that,,,After some investigating and phone calls ,I found out that these guys were visiting lofts and taking CULLS, or anything they could get cheap,that would pass for 514 stuff, These junkers were sold to all that were willing to buy!This went on for some time,they seemed somewhat successful, Now this may shed a little Light,on why some guys say 514 birds are stiff or 'no good' for one reason or another,Bill said 514 was the second best hen of all,with 743 being #1...LEO
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
241 posts
Apr 24, 2009
7:05 AM
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Sunflower-Joe like profile photos of your loft with kit pens in front, well thought out. JDA
Last Edited by on Apr 24, 2009 8:09 AM
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Scott
2108 posts
Apr 24, 2009
7:16 AM
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Leo, Pensoms last trip to England had a purpose in it, the line was stiffening up on him.
Is your line stiff ? I don't have a clue, I know nothing about them.
It all evolves around selection,we loose focus for anything such as side projects or pedigree and we pay a huge price,again I am clueless to your program, as far as I know you have the cats meow hid away from the rest of the world.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Apr 24, 2009 7:20 AM
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Scott
2109 posts
Apr 24, 2009
8:32 AM
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Documents ? It was common knowledge from thase that would know, he died shortly after.
It was also the primary purpose in some of the 80s imports trying to follow the same lines, it really didn't pan out by the others.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Apr 24, 2009 8:34 AM
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
243 posts
Apr 24, 2009
8:39 AM
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Scott What you are saying is you have no proof. JDA
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
244 posts
Apr 24, 2009
8:46 AM
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I did not say anything about 514.You said(Pensoms last trip to England had a purpose in it, the line was stiffening up on him.)He had a lot more than just the 514, and I have no birds that pedigree to her,but lots of others he has raised.
Last Edited by on Apr 24, 2009 10:17 AM
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
391 posts
Apr 24, 2009
10:12 AM
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JDA,
Thanks for the compliment on the loft. After building 4 or 5 lofts over the years, I know how to lay it out for my convenience and the birds. I can stand in one spot inside and see all my birds. Since I retired, I spent 2 to 4 hours a day in the loft working with the birds so I built it for easy cleaning and convenience.
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
245 posts
Apr 24, 2009
10:45 AM
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glenn- No, not with out reference from him to where he is getting that information.JDA
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
550 posts
Apr 24, 2009
11:07 AM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
(Mesiah) HaHaha LOL...Man that is funny..Scott is it ok if I start calling you Mesiah? LOL
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Leo
Member
113 posts
Apr 24, 2009
11:12 AM
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JDA, I know of his last trip, and why he went,,,and what he brought back,,,,and even a few band #NOs,,We talked about it one time,,BUT, For the sake of everlasting arguements, I will keep it to myself...This may come as a shock to some BUT I lived in Calif for several yrs, So I know a whole lot more than 'I let on'!!I DO appreciate your good sense and judgment...REGARDS...LEO
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0221
228 posts
Apr 24, 2009
11:24 AM
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One of Bill's Buddies, Bob Weyrauch told a pretty good story about those imports. You see I also lived in Calif., for awhile Myself. There's not as many people in the dark as You may think. I will keep what I know to Myself as well. Keep looking up.
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glenn
249 posts
Apr 24, 2009
11:33 AM
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Hello Joe:
Since you know everything....nothing else can be said...Peace Be With You....have fun with the Patrick birds...good luck getting the speed back in them....Glenn
Last Edited by on Apr 24, 2009 11:36 AM
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
246 posts
Apr 24, 2009
11:54 AM
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glenn-I never have any problem with speed with Patrick birds.With everything else you said I will not say anything. JDA
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Scott
2112 posts
Apr 24, 2009
12:27 PM
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It does have kind of a nice ring to it, but I prefere Grand Pubah
(Mesiah) HaHaha LOL...Man that is funny..Scott is it ok if I start calling you Mesiah? LOL
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2898 posts
Apr 24, 2009
2:22 PM
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Grand Pubah
----------..lol you a sick puppet Scott...
Ralph.
The greatest use of your life is so you live your life so that the use of your life will outlive your life, In other words what you going to leave behind legacy or Dust....
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
392 posts
Apr 24, 2009
3:03 PM
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I think Head MFWIC is more appropriate.
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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